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Thread: Shooting occurs outside of a "Draw Muhammad" cartoon contest in Dallas

  1. #121

    Default Re: Shooting occurs outside of a "Draw Muhammad" cartoon contest in Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by Condottiere 40K View Post
    No one's gone out and shot Cleese, Idle, Gilliam, or Palin.
    Because presumably we have few guns and in those days we had professional busybodies to interfere on our behalf whether we wanted it or not. We didn't nailbomb or firebomb mosques back then either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere View Post
    This is just nonsense. You were being so good in actually (well sort of) attempting to argue the point at hand, and then you had to go and spoil it by making baseless and ridiculous accusations. Again.
    How is it nonsense?It is a matter of record that counter-jihadists have been convicted of various sectarian crimes, from the relatively common ,but minor attacks on women wearing headscarves, to arson, murder and acts of terrorism. Are you pretending these crimes didn't exist?



    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere View Post
    She hired a SWAT team. I think she did a risk assessment.
    For insurance purposes presumably. No I believe she expected a free ride as always.Making a fast buck from racist idiots. May prove more expensive to arrange next time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere View Post

    This is baseless too, not supported by any evidence or even any particulars of the allegation. Just broad brush stroke nonsense, poisoning the well, ad hominem attacks. Pretty standard. A drawing of a religious figure doesn't tell anyone how to worship anything, nor does it or can it threaten anyone, let alone be a murderous threat. This is just more nonsense. I don't accept anyone was telling anybody anything, but even if they were - so what. You then need to bring an assault rifle and kill a bunch of people because you don't like what they are saying? And that somehow means that you have not done a risk assessment. It's exactly because an accurate risk assessment was done, that everyone is still alive - well except for the jihadi wannabees.
    Are you saying that the counter-jihad movement is literally a few weeks old? It very existence depends on making money form bigots by fulfilling their fantasies that it is possible, indeed necessary to expel or eliminate Muslims from the West, encouraging loons to stop the building of places of worship, whether by legitimate means (protest), illegitimate means, (placing pork products in various places) and, off message of course, followers boasting of wanting to pursue or indeed actually pursuing more violent means, such as arson and terrorist acts. Do I need to post web and facebook pages? The forum is not stupid. Do jihadis need to feed the trolls and gun cartoonists down? No, no more than there is the need for counterr-jihadi loons to bomb or gun down brown people or socialists in the vain hope of starting a race war. Neither the counter-jihadi ideology or jihadi brainwashing is worth a single life. Unfortunately people who promote the counter-jihadi/jihadi doctrines, like yourself, never accept responsibility for the damage this material may cause, either to their idiot followers, who I almost see as victims, and any innocent people they harm .

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere View Post
    The biggest persecuted group on the basis of religion in Europe is not muslims, it's Jews, and the biggest perpetrators are muslims. And the jews in europe dont blow anything up, they dont set fire to cars or gang rape anyone or beat anyone to death. They dont have angry protests or make threats or attack cartoonists. The jews in Europe, are model citizens. However the insane hatred of jews replete throughout the Koran and the teachings of Islam makes Jews in Europe under threat from the biggest rise of anti-semitism since World War II, and the leaders in the charge of anti-semitism are muslims.
    Problems with your argument.

    1. USA is not in Europe.

    2. Do you have form of holocaust denial thing going on? Europeans have killed more Jews than any group of people. Even if you count battle casualties in the Arab -Israel Wars, Muslims can't even get close to the number of Jews killed by Europeans, ever.Germany and its allies would have wiped them all out.For reasons I cannot fathom the couter-jihadi movement actively cooperates with the European far-right. Go figure. The only issue you have with sectarianism is that there isn't enough of it,the only solution your ideology can offer,, I suspect, is a Final one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere View Post
    TGitmo is not in the United States and is irrelevant to this debate. If there is a debate, you need to post things about Gitmo in another thread.
    Gitmo is US territory. You said the rule of law applies in the US. I call that out. It is not even applied in Chicago I hear.
    Last edited by mongrel; May 15, 2015 at 07:04 PM.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
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  2. #122
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    Default Re: Shooting occurs outside of a "Draw Muhammad" cartoon contest in Dallas

    Just more white noise and nonsense, conspiracy theories and bizarre ramblings about things that are not connected.

    I referred to Europe because that's where you are, and if I had refered to the US you would have said 'I am not in the US so it is irrelevant to me.' But now you've said you want to refer to the US so let's refer to the US, you know who the biggest target of religous hatred is in the US - it's not muslims, its Jews. Again.

    Religious bias

    Of the 1,340 victims of an anti-religious hate crime:


    • 62.4 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-Jewish bias.
    • 11.6 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias.
    • 7.5 percent were victims of a bias against groups of individuals of varying religions (anti-multiple religions, group).
    • 6.4 percent were victims of an anti-Catholic bias.
    • 2.6 percent were victims of an anti-Protestant bias.
    • 0.9 percent were victims of an anti-Atheist/Agnostic bias.
    • 8.6 percent were victims of a bias against other religions (anti-other religion). (Based on Table 1.)


    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr.../victims_final

    Gitmo is US territory. You said the rule of law applies in the US. I call that out. It is not even applied in Chicago I hear.
    You're not even an English lawyer let alone an American one, so how would you know. You call that out? On what possible basis would you have ANY idea.

    Gitmo isn't US territory. That's just a fact that you can look up on Wikipedia. It's a naval base on land leased from Cuba in perpetuity, it has not been 'annexed' by the US. Cuba retains sovereignty, however SCOTUS has determined that the US has de-facto sovereignty through its complete jurisdictional control over that area. As for the rule of law, SCOTUS declared that the writ of habeus corpus could be applied to Gitmo detainees in Boumediene v. Bush, 553 U.S. 723 (2008). If there was no rule of law, that would not have been possible. They would not have even been able to file the application. Lawyers also routinely visit Gitmo inmates.

    From the decision itself:

    Guantanamo Bay is not formally part of the United States. See DTA §1005(g), 119 Stat. 2743. And under the terms of the lease between the United States and Cuba, Cuba retains “ultimate sovereignty” over the territory while the United States exercises “complete jurisdiction and control.” See Lease of Lands for Coaling and Naval Stations, Feb. 23, 1903, U. S.-Cuba, Art. III, T. S. No. 418 (hereinafter 1903 Lease Agreement); Rasul, 542 U. S., at 471. Under the terms of the 1934 Treaty, however, Cuba effectively has no rights as a sovereign until the parties agree to modification of the 1903 Lease Agreement or the United States abandons the base. See Treaty Defining Relations with Cuba, May 29, 1934, U. S.-Cuba, Art. III, 48 Stat. 1683, T. S. No. 866.
    US suspects and defendants have far more rights, far more, granted to them by the US constitution and enforced, than anyone in any country in Europe, and indeed I believe almost any country I can think of in the world. Right to counsel, need for a warrant, illegally obtained evidence and confessions chucked out, right to silence - those are things many countries including the west have eroded or done away with.

    You have almost no understanding of the US justice system or its laws. If you want to say, this particular ruling or event, I don't like that - then maybe I can agree with you. There is also US Federal law, the law of 50 states, as well as local laws at city level. To say, no rule of law applies, means that it does not apply, in a lot of different places. Have you done a study of the rule of law in Wyoming? Kansas? Arkansas? Lousiana? And that has led you to consider that there is no rule of law?

    But to say there is no rule of law in the US just because Gitmo exists is more nonsense. Also one event or even many you do not like, does not mean the rule of law is gone. The UK does not have the rule of law, it has the rule of selective law enforcement. I don't know what your complaint is about Chicago but how that is even remotely relevant to this debate I couldn't even begin to speculate on.

    Try to stick to what you know, whatever that might be. Reading an amnesty international report does not make you a US lawyer.
    My bookshelf is a hate blog.

  3. #123

    Default Re: Shooting occurs outside of a "Draw Muhammad" cartoon contest in Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere View Post
    Just more white noise and nonsense, conspiracy theories and bizarre ramblings about things that are not connected.

    I referred to Europe because that's where you are, and if I had refered to the US you would have said 'I am not in the US so it is irrelevant to me.' But now you've said you want to refer to the US so let's refer to the US, you know who the biggest target of religous hatred is in the US - it's not muslims, its Jews. Again.


    You referrred to Europe as a part of a continuing narrative of sectarian nonsense. I don't see you metioning the KKK whose very ethos is to persecute Jews Catholics and black people, or indeed neo-nazis. Given the affinity of the counter-jihad movement to far-right groups it is perhaps not surprising.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere View Post
    Religious bias
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere View Post
    Of the 1,340 victims of an anti-religious hate crime:


    • 62.4 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-Jewish bias.
    • 11.6 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias.
    • 7.5 percent were victims of a bias against groups of individuals of varying religions (anti-multiple religions, group).
    • 6.4 percent were victims of an anti-Catholic bias.
    • 2.6 percent were victims of an anti-Protestant bias.
    • 0.9 percent were victims of an anti-Atheist/Agnostic bias.
    • 8.6 percent were victims of a bias against other religions (anti-other religion). (Based on Table 1.)


    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr.../victims_final
    Don't contribute to anti-religious hate crime . It is not wanted in civilised society and it only encourages discrimination, violence and terrorism. All you have to do is not post Spencer/Geller shite over the net . Sorted, job done.



    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere View Post
    You're not even an English lawyer let alone an American one, so how would you know. You call that out? On what possible basis would you have ANY idea.

    Gitmo isn't US territory. blah blah
    If an American abuses someone's fundamental human rights whether in the US , Gitmo which is a US facility, not a Cuban, Russian or chiunese one, or indeed Mars, it makes no difference. The Black site in Homan square, Chicago is firmly on US soil. I didn't say the UK is properly under the rule of law either, after all it facilitated rendition and the arguably illegal war against Iraq. There also seems to have been a cover-up of serious crimes committed by establishment figures, the facts of which are now emerging. there is a thread about that.
    Last edited by mongrel; May 16, 2015 at 08:45 AM.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  4. #124
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    Default Re: Shooting occurs outside of a "Draw Muhammad" cartoon contest in Dallas

    You said that the Gitmo facility was US territory, it isn't. You started talking about something you know nothing about, and made a hash of it.

    You said there was no rule of law, and there is which is why writs of habeus corpus have been granted. Now you are talking about black sites in Chicago, and while I'm familiar with that allegation - if that has substance, they are going to get kerb stomped in litigation.

    Don't contribute to anti-religious hate crime . It is not wanted in civilised society and it only encourages discrimination, violence and terrorism. All you have to do is not post Spencer/Geller shite over the net . Sorted, job done.
    I'll do whatever I like, how about *that*. And whilst you talk about muslims being the victim, the real victims by a very wide margin in terms of religious hate crimes are Jews. Hot off the presses, Jikeli's Antisemitic Attitudes among Muslims in Europe: A Survey Review

    There are no Jewish rape gangs. Jews do not set fires to cars in European towns. They don't plot to blow things up nor are they over-represented in the prisons and courts. They are not behind any terror events in Europe, neither plotting nor carrying them out. And yet they are singled out for brutal treatment because of anti-semitism that is replete within Islam, and as the Islamic population in Europe increases, so does the anti-semitism and religious/racial hatred against Jews.

    Introduction

    Since the early twenty-first century, Muslims have emerged as a new group of antisemitic perpetrators in Western Europe. Perpetrators of the most extreme cases
    of violence against European Jews in recent years were Muslims, and they partly justified their actions by their interpretation of Islam. The most terrible incidents
    include: the terror attacks in January and February 2015 in Paris and Copenhagen, where nineteen people were murdered, among them at least five because they were
    Jewish; the shootings at the Jewish Museum in Brussels in May 2014, where four people were killed; the murder of three children and a teacher at a Jewish school
    in Toulouse in 2012; and the torture and murder of Ilan Halimi in Paris in 2006. Statistics for France and Great Britain from the last decade show that antisemitic
    perpetrators have been disproportionately of Muslim origin. Exact numbers are difficult to establish, however, because most perpetrators have not been identified.
    Cautious estimations put the percentage of Muslim perpetrators of antisemitic acts in Great Britain at between 20 and 30 percent, while the percentage of Muslims in
    the general population stands at 5 percent. About 30 percent of the perpetrators in all antisemitic incidents in France in recent years have been identified as Muslim/
    Arab. Adding the number of non-identified perpetrators, the actual percentage can be estimated to be above 50 percent.


    Muslims make up 6 to 8 percent of the total population of France. While antisemitic acts peaked during tensions in the Israeli–
    Palestinian conflict and the Iraq War, the annual levels of antisemitic acts have risen significantly compared to the 1990s and cannot be attributed solely to fallout
    from these conflicts. How is this reflected in antisemitic attitudes?
    http://isgap.org/wp-content/uploads/..._in_Europe.pdf



    Seems like your sharia mates are the biggest perpetrators of religiously motivated hatred and attacks in Europe, because of the insane hatred of Jews that is right throughout Islamic teachings. So let's get this right, criticising the ideology behind the main source of religiously motivated attacks in Europe, is in fact, promoting religiously motivated attacks in Europe....
    Last edited by Simon Cashmere; May 16, 2015 at 09:21 AM.
    My bookshelf is a hate blog.

  5. #125

    Default Re: Shooting occurs outside of a "Draw Muhammad" cartoon contest in Dallas

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere View Post
    Now you are talking about black sites in Chicago, and while I'm familiar with that allegation - if that has substance, they are going to get kerb stomped in litigation. .
    At which point the rule of law is re-established. Until then and when other law-enforcement officials , military and intelleigence personnel are brought back into line I shall wait patiently for complaince with TROL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere View Post
    I'll do whatever I like, how about *that*. .
    In other words you will continue to promote religious hatred and support people whose messages inspires arson, murder and terrorism. Rather pointless putting up that chart, wasn't it? If the cult you promote was aimed at eliminating religious hatred rather than promoting it, you would be in a position to argue. As things stand you are not fit to contribute, given your body of work, such as it is.



    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere View Post
    There are no Jewish rape gangs. Jews do not set fires to cars in European towns. They don't plot to blow things up nor are they over-represented in the prisons and courts. They are not behind any terror events in Europe, neither plotting nor carrying them out. And yet they are singled out for brutal treatment because of anti-semitism that is replete within Islam, and as the Islamic population in Europe increases, so does the anti-semitism and religious/racial hatred against Jews.
    Back to Europe and again deliberately overlooking the point Europeans killeed 6million Jews and still has officially anti-Semitic parties.You would do, wouldn't you this as Spencer and Gellar openly works with European neo-nazi movements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere View Post
    So let's get this right, criticising the ideology behind the main source of religiously motivated attacks in Europe, is in fact, promoting religiously motivated attacks in Europe....
    If one sets fire to a mosque, murder a pensioner or kill the kids of Socialists in order to start a race war, obviously yes. That is not criticism, that is crime. You are content to promote an ideology that inspires these crimes.You do know that race war or Eurabia are not going to materialise?
    Last edited by mongrel; May 16, 2015 at 10:50 AM.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  6. #126

    Default Re: Shooting occurs outside of a "Draw Muhammad" cartoon contest in Dallas

    3173
    Gitmo's purpose was a legal loophole that allowed detention without trial.

    Essentially, a Whitesite.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  7. #127
    B. W.'s Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Shooting occurs outside of a "Draw Muhammad" cartoon contest in Dallas

    The one comforting thing to come from this is the fact that ISIL decided to start their campaign against America in a place like Garland.

    They may as well have picked Vidor. The result would have been the same, only faster.

  8. #128

    Default Re: Shooting occurs outside of a "Draw Muhammad" cartoon contest in Dallas

    973
    It does seem that the safest place in the world to criticize Islam would appear to be in the United States.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

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