Texas National Guard deployment and questions arising from it

[alhoon]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/c...-jade-helm-15/


http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolit...obama-takeover


Apparently, the Governor of Texas, a huge, oil-rich, developed state, deployed the national guard to watch whether an army exercise train soldiers to fight insurgenices that, as part of the exercise, labeled parts of the Texas state as hostile will "infringe on the constitutional and civil liberties" of the state. I.e. the Governor seems to be pandering to a small group of paranoid people that are (according to the 2nd source) afraid the exercise is just a lie that comes before installing martial law in Texas and\or that the USA army actually considers parts of Texas as hostile and doesn't do it hypothetically.

I am beyond words.

I don't know if the Governor of Texas smokes too potent stuff still illegal there or just wants to pander to the Tea Party but apparently, it's true:
The Texas Governor ordered the National Guard to watch over a navy Seals exercise that paranoid Republicans fear is an excuse so that Obama may put Texas under martial law.
WHY ON EARTH Obama would want to put Texas under martial law is not mentioned in the article. Probably because he's just a very bad person.

A number of Republicans decried the Governor. After all, the USA army largerly supports the GOP so painting them as the "nameless enemy" that in the hands of a (democratically elected) president may severly infringe on civil and constitutional rights of the state, to the point that the national guard has to make sure they don't "misbehave" hurts that relationship.
It's a disgrace against the army that fights insurgencies all over the world and bleeds for it. Such exercises are needed since for the past 15 years USA army fights insurgencies and not state armies with tanks, divisions, airforce etc.

[opock]

I read both links and nothing therein supported your ridiculous title. The guard appears to have been deployed to observe based on concerns over exercises training to put down civilian (read right-wing; they certainly are not training for future baltimores) unrest and labeling large parts of the country as hostile in the process. Combine that with the fact that in the past the military under the current administration has been caught and had to apologize for conducting exercises alluding to putting down a tea party takeover of a city, as well as the administrations IRS targeting of conservative opposition groups and you basically have people saying they want to see exactly who and what these exercises are supposed to be simulating fighting to ensure none of the above mentioned shenanigans take place. It's not healthy for a society to have the military training to put down the domestic opposition of the ruling party.

Neither the Governor nor any one else (aside from a few Alex Jones types the press specifically sought out to get the conspiracy narrative going) believed or claimed the military was actually going to take Texas and neighboring states using the exercises as a ruse. Instead they objected to the "enemies" being portrayed. Which again, given the history of the administration is reasonable. I know it must come as a shock that people don't like being labeled and wargamed against as terrorists for opposing government spending... but I guess it's easier to make idiotic thread titles implying conspiracy theory rather than addressing actual concerns.

[Enros]

Imagine a battlegroup including Germany, Netherlands etc was training in Greece and their imaginary enemy was left-wing insurgents. I don't think it would go down well either would it alhoon?

[Slaxx Hatmen]

(As a Texan)Wait....we have a National Guard?

(Separate from the US obviously)

[Condottiere 40K]

91
Unlikely to happen, unless Texas has plans to secede, or the cowboys kill all the Rangers and sheriffs.

[Slaxx Hatmen]

Actually Condottiere, the sad truth is we haven't had any real 'cowboys' down here in a hundred years. Just country boys who like to dress up like them.(I call them 'Anti-Hipsters')

[alhoon]

Imagine a battlegroup including Germany, Netherlands etc was training in Greece and their imaginary enemy was left-wing insurgents. I don't think it would go down well either would it alhoon?

If the Greek army though was conducting an exercise in Crete, as it does often, training on how to fight enemies that reached Crete, I would have no problem with it.

The point of the army exercise is obviously how to tackle insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan, not planning to covertly pass military law.

The guard appears to have been deployed to observe based on concerns over exercises training to put down civilian (read right-wing; they certainly are not training for future baltimores) unrest and labeling large parts of the country as hostile in the process.

Read: Taliban insurgency in Afghanistan, Russian insurgency in the Baltic, ISIS in Egypt etc.
Paranoia made groups close to the governor think that the USA army is actually training on how to put down a domestic insurgency (That has next to 0 chance to happen) and that there's a plan to covertly pass military law on Texas.

I read both links and nothing therein supported your ridiculous title. The guard appears to have been deployed to observe based on concerns over exercises training to put down civilian (read right-wing; they certainly are not training for future baltimores) unrest and labeling large parts of the country as hostile in the process. Combine that with the fact that in the past the military under the current administration has been caught and had to apologize for conducting exercises alluding to putting down a tea party takeover of a city, as well as the administrations IRS targeting of conservative opposition groups and you basically have people saying they want to see exactly who and what these exercises are supposed to be simulating fighting to ensure none of the above mentioned shenanigans take place. It's not healthy for a society to have the military training to put down the domestic opposition of the ruling party.

So... you're basically validating my title that you called rediculous. Thanks for that. Now, to address (Again) your paranoia:
The military is training to put down insurgencies since USA army is fighting insurgencies the past 15 years. They don't train in order to put down a theoretical insurgency of rightwings, except in the deepest opiate-induced nightmares of tea party members.

Neither the Governor nor any one else (aside from a few Alex Jones types the press specifically sought out to get the conspiracy narrative going) believed or claimed the military was actually going to take Texas and neighboring states using the exercises as a ruse. Instead they objected to the "enemies" being portrayed. Which again, given the history of the administration is reasonable. I know it must come as a shock that people don't like being labeled and wargamed against as terrorists for opposing government spending... but I guess it's easier to make idiotic thread titles implying conspiracy theory rather than addressing actual concerns.

You're the one making the conspiracy theory buddy... along with the governor.
As for the nobody claimed: http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolit...obama-takeover
"It seems there is concern among some folks that this so-called training maneuver is just a cover story. What's really going on? President Obama is about to use Special Forces to put Texas under martial law."

And what more reasonable Republicans had to say about this idiocy, that you endorse while calling me out for saying it's paranoia?
"Your letter pandering to idiots ... has left me livid," former State Rep. Todd Smith wrote Gov. Abbott. "I am horrified that I have to choose between the possibility that my Governor actually believes this stuff and the possibility that my Governor doesn't have the backbone to stand up to those who do."

[gaunty14]

Ahh those crazy Texans...not really helping their international image.

[conon394]

It's not healthy for a society to have the military training to put down the domestic opposition of the ruling party.

Who said domestic??? Is really odd that military that has been fighting insurgent war small or large all over the world since 9/11 would not carry out large scale training operations? Also the choice of locations are obvious lots of federal land and or pasture and access to low population density - so you won't likely bothering people to much.
And while realize the military has lots of pre existing sites to train on they must get stale. A wide ranging test on new/unfamiliar ground is probably useful

To bad there no union organization votes at Wall Mart in California it would funny to see outrage from the right if Jerry Brown summoned the national guard to watch the situation and make sure potential union members were not intimidated into loosing a civil liberty...

[snuggans]

this thread title only serves to invigorate the conspiracy theorist angle on this situation, it makes it appear as if it was coming straight from the media's mouth but the Washington Post title definitely does not present it this way even if it goes on to include tweets from conspiracy idiots that can't even spell 'monitoring' (why Washington Post? why?)

also i'm pretty sure that its illegal for a non armed-forces group like the State Guard to be spying on special forces training so what the hell is this joke?

[Gaidin]

Wow. And alhoon wonders why we don't take him seriously. Texas National Guard gets to tag along with military exercises, maybe learn something, and Governor gets to score brownie points with headline at same time. Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along.

Not like the Texas National Guard could "do" anything about the US Military's "shenanigans" if they thought they saw any. I mean, let's be realistic here.

[Heathen Hammer]

Wow. And alhoon wonders why we don't take him seriously. Texas National Guard gets to tag along with military exercises, maybe learn something, and Governor gets to score brownie points with headline at same time. Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along.

Not like the Texas National Guard could "do" anything about the US Military's "shenanigans" if they thought they saw any. I mean, let's be realistic here.

Yeahh, its not like Americans have a history of winning wars against conventional armies with militias. Or that most of the members of those militias have experience in US military.

[Vanoi]

Name one single conventional war the US fought that was won by militias.

[Heinz Guderian]

haha look at them

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

they took our jerbs

hope Obama crushes them and puts them in a camp

[Admiral Piett]

The Texas National Guard is not a militia - they are a wide range of official state security forces that have a dual federal-state role. They are currently being used as a supplemental border security force. It is simply that they wish to learn or keep an eye on the training exercises to understand the doctrine and maneuvers, since the federal government doesn't plan to secure the border, it forces the state to pick up that slack. Could be useful.

I doubt it has anything to do with anti-government sympathies.

[conon394]

since the federal government doesn't plan to secure the border

From what and when did it ever do that?

[Napoleonic Bonapartism]

Way to beat the international stereotype Texas. Honestly though, is a morsel of logic too much for them? Do they think that the US Army can impose Martial Law in Texas without someone - say - noticing? Wouldn't that lead to resistance in the rest of the nation? To do such an act the US Army would need to impose Martial Law simultaneously across the major regions of the United States - hardly feasible. Don't they ask: why Texas, why now?

Name one single conventional war the US fought that was won by militias.

One could argue the US Civil War - but that's a technicality: I agree with your implied point.

[opock]

Who said domestic??? Is really odd that military that has been fighting insurgent war small or large all over the world since 9/11 would not carry out large scale training operations? Also the choice of locations are obvious lots of federal land and or pasture and access to low population density - so you won't likely bothering people to much.
And while realize the military has lots of pre existing sites to train on they must get stale. A wide ranging test on new/unfamiliar ground is probably useful

To bad there no union organization votes at Wall Mart in California it would funny to see outrage from the right if Jerry Brown summoned the national guard to watch the situation and make sure potential union members were not intimidated into loosing a civil liberty...

If Bush was President and the military under him before had been caught wargaming against a "union takeover an urban area" it would be reasonable for Brown to make sure that was not happening again and you can bet the left would be demanding it. Hell at the height of BDS during the Bush presidency something like 1/3rd of Democrats believed he knew about 9/11 beforehand. So watching the same folks suddenly playing the above the fray cool calm reasonable card doesn't fly.

As to the situation at hand, I'm not saying that this specific wargaming was directed against the tea party. I don't know. Probably it wasn't and it is reasonably to continue to train for Afghan/Iraq style operations. However as I said a few years ago the military was caught actually wargaming against the tea party "takeover" of an American city. That had nothing to do with training for Iraq or Afghanistan. Combine that with other incidents of the administration labeling the tea party as domestic terrorists, and illegally directing other enforcement arms of the state (IRS) against it, and it is perfectly reasonable for them to ask that outside observers attend to see exactly who and what scenarios are being wargamed against. But the left doesn't want to talk about any of that any instead create a giant strawman to pretend anyone uncomfortable with the Obama administration labeling his domestic opposition as terrorists and having the military wargame against them are conspiracy nuts that believe the military is about to take over the SW.

[snuggans]

there are plenty of militias under investigation/watch by the FBI which arent necessarily affiliated with the tea party, police officers have already been killed by such, and it is a real threat. no idea why the IRS was even mentioned, or that the tea party would have any part in this, other than as a theoretical distant influence in a fictional wargame scenario, which is written by a civilian author and is making the rounds through conspiracy sites after a quick google search.

do you have any sources for the military being caught wargaming against tea party?

[Gaidin]

The Texas National Guard is not a militia - they are a wide range of official state security forces that have a dual federal-state role. They are currently being used as a supplemental border security force. It is simply that they wish to learn or keep an eye on the training exercises to understand the doctrine and maneuvers, since the federal government doesn't plan to secure the border, it forces the state to pick up that slack. Could be useful.

I doubt it has anything to do with anti-government sympathies.

Doesn't plan to secure the border my ass. Texas and the Federal Government just define what needs to be done for that differently. Too bad for Texas.