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Thread: Purpose of the Heavy Shimazu Gunners?

  1. #1

    Default Purpose of the Heavy Shimazu Gunners?

    Hello guys,
    i have a question about the Heavy Gunners from the Shimazu clan. I real in a lot of rather old posts that the heavy gunners should be pretty op due to piercing rounds and so and i also read that they were nerfed in a patch but still be somehow useful but in the few times i tried them ingame they sucked pretty hard. When they fire in an open terrain at a range of 150 or so at some bow ashigaru they only kill like 5 units and they are way more useless at attacking castle walls because in 2 volleys they havent even killed one unit of bow ashigaru so are they useful at all or do i just dont know how they are used properly and if so how should i use them?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Purpose of the Heavy Shimazu Gunners?

    I was wondering about the same thing actually. Heavy gunners have less men than regular matchlock samurai, but the stats are the same. When the heavy gunner was first implemented, any one of their bullet was able to kill everything on it's path. Online community complained that it was OP, so this feature is no longer implemented. They could also knock enemies down on the ground. I am not sure if this is still implemented either.

    One difference I now see is morale damage. Heavy Gunner takes down the morale bar faster than regular guns. Also heavy gunners can inflict structural damages to buildings.

  3. #3
    Samittaja's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Purpose of the Heavy Shimazu Gunners?

    The text indeed tells that they are able to actually destroy structures (i.e. walls), as the only non-siege unit. In the campaign that is not what you would want to do, but in a custom or online battle... perhaps they can decimate the enemy archers behind the wall, since these babies can annihilate their cover? Needs testing.

    Another thing that comes into my mind is the Date Bulletproof Samurai, who has ridiculously thick armour. I tested it out, and yes, they suffer relatively small casualties from frontal musket fire. Perhaps these can chew through them? However, since Heavy Gunners have a smaller unit size, I don't believe they would much better in a land battle, but as siege defenders they might be the only ones really countering Bulletproof Samurais.

  4. #4
    Samittaja's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Purpose of the Heavy Shimazu Gunners?

    I tested it out. I had a plain 1-ring-fort protected by one Chosokabe bow ashigaru, and I used 3 Heavy Gunners. If the gunners destroy a section of the wall, all bowmen on that section die in a fancy flight that reminded me of Rome I / Medieval 2 wall shattering. However, I wasn't really impressed by the rate of destruction. The gatehouse required only one concentrated volley from the gunners (killing everyone inside), but any other, smaller parts required two volleys. In the mean time, the ashigaru halved the gunners before the remaining 33 AI soldiers got stuck behind the gatehouse, doing nothing. So not very cost-effective in the end. The situation could be perhaps improved if you have cannon fodder soaking arrows while the Heavy Gunners can do their work mostly unharmed.

    As of the Bulletproof Samurai, in an open, flat field I had Heavy Gunners organised into three lines, and set to fire by rank. The optimal setting. They killed half of the Bulletproof Samurai before they reached the gunners. For some time, the Samurai had completely stopped advancing, as the most of the survivors ones were down. Being hopelessly inadequate in melee, even in this situation they weren't worth their cost.

    In short, Heavy Gunners can be used against walled defenders, and they cause great losses to even the thickest-armoured units. With good timing they can be used to halt an infantry unit that has high charge, like no-dachi. But they should never be used alone, but backed by something to either soak up the damage or counter charge enemy.

  5. #5
    Samittaja's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Purpose of the Heavy Shimazu Gunners?

    To say more accurately, in the land battle test I used 1 Heavy Gunner vs 1 Bulletproof Samurai. The way I wrote can and will be eventually misunderstood without this correction.

  6. #6
    moshedz's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: Purpose of the Heavy Shimazu Gunners?

    They knockback anything that charges them.

    MrSmartDonkey has videos on Shogun 2.

    A recent video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1PMrOU7LWE places the Shimazu Heavy Gunners at #4 on his list of top 15 unique units.

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