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Thread: Persian Preview - Hellenika

  1. #21

    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview

    On the Carians/Lycians:

  2. #22

    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview

    Mhh maybe the Lycians could be armed with falxes aswell. They seem to be very similar to the swords portayed on the picture.
    I also have to mention that i am very glad to see you guys helping us with research ... !

  3. #23
    UchihaMadara21's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview

    Best reproduction of Achaemenid Persia i ever saw in any mod.

    BTW, i think these guys deserve a historical debate:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    They were also considered a part of the Ten Thousand Immortals. As you can see, they were Spearmen who carried a composite bow, and wore a typical Persian tunic instead of scale armour. Some sources claim that these didn't engage in close combat, but actually served as an auxiliary force, shooting from a distant position (i used them this way in the Rome 1 mod "Sparta: Total War", and was impressed by their effectiveness).

    But it's also said that they were actually a noble force that protected the walls of the Capital (Persepolis) and the King himself, following him wherever he traveled to. The elaborated clothing may probably have been a "ceremonial" tradition; these soldiers weren't supposed to be "touched" anyways.

    This mod is made for WOS, so it obviously does not cover the total extent of the Achaemenid Empire, focusing on the satrapies. Adding a unit native to Persepolis might look historically innacurate, but giving the fact that Xerxes himself went to Greece during the Graeco-Persian wars, these noble immortals could be an nice addition to the roster as a bodyguard unit (maybe for Custom Battle only?)

    What do you think about that?
    Last edited by UchihaMadara21; April 30, 2015 at 09:10 PM.

  4. #24
    Linke's Avatar Hazarapatish
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    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview

    I don't know of any "noble immortals". What you describe seem to be what we think was the "Arstibara", the kings 1000
    strong guard of Persian nobility. My arstibara represent the satraps immitating the king in forming such a regiment.
    You, as many others are probably linking these to the immortal by Herodotus who says something like there was a tenth of the immortals who carried golden apples on their spears (something like that). These may be the royal guard, later called "melaphoroi (in greek)" meaning apple bearers. But they might aswell also be the officers of the army or the immortals. Or
    just an elite part of the immortals not linked to the Arstibara.

  5. #25
    UchihaMadara21's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Linke View Post
    I don't know of any "noble immortals". What you describe seem to be what we think was the "Arstibara", the kings 1000
    strong guard of Persian nobility. My arstibara represent the satraps immitating the king in forming such a regiment.
    You, as many others are probably linking these to the immortal by Herodotus who says something like there was a tenth of the immortals who carried golden apples on their spears (something like that). These may be the royal guard, later called "melaphoroi (in greek)" meaning apple bearers. But they might aswell also be the officers of the army or the immortals. Or
    just an elite part of the immortals not linked to the Arstibara.
    I called them "noble immortals" because that's how they are described in the Rome 1 mod; the picture i posted is the first thing that comes into people's minds when talking about the Persian Immortals (aside of the 300 movie ninjas). It's actually a cultural thing, since the Immortals didn't looked like that, they looked like these in the previews.

    Now that mistakes have been corrected, what do you think?

  6. #26
    Basileos Antiokhos Euergetes's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Linke View Post
    I don't know of any "noble immortals". What you describe seem to be what we think was the "Arstibara", the kings 1000
    strong guard of Persian nobility. My arstibara represent the satraps immitating the king in forming such a regiment.
    You, as many others are probably linking these to the immortal by Herodotus who says something like there was a tenth of the immortals who carried golden apples on their spears (something like that). These may be the royal guard, later called "melaphoroi (in greek)" meaning apple bearers. But they might aswell also be the officers of the army or the immortals. Or
    just an elite part of the immortals not linked to the Arstibara.
    Your research is impressive as is your masterful work !!




    http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/TWCSoarin/Basileos_zps3ab217ac.png[/IMG]






















    [IMG]

  7. #27
    Linke's Avatar Hazarapatish
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    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview

    I won't add a unit looking like that (even though it would look really great), some generals will look somewhat similar though.
    I don't think anyone would have gone to battle unarmoured if they could afford armour. Their appereance at the Susa frieze (wich you posted) I'd think is their appereance at court so even if I added them as a unit for let's say a Cyrus the great mod they would still carry no tunics.

  8. #28
    Aguirre's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview

    Great authentic work, persians needed this facelift badly! snyggt!

  9. #29
    UchihaMadara21's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Linke View Post
    I won't add a unit looking like that (even though it would look really great), some generals will look somewhat similar though.
    I don't think anyone would have gone to battle unarmoured if they could afford armour. Their appereance at the Susa frieze (wich you posted) I'd think is their appereance at court so even if I added them as a unit for let's say a Cyrus the great mod they would still carry no tunics.
    That's right. It wasn't supposed to make any sense after all, it was just fanwish.

  10. #30
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview

    Nice work mate, i am realy eager to play this awesome work
    Modding is like accursed wine, you try a sip and you ended empty the whole glass
    Under Proud Patronage of Shankbot de Bodemloze

  11. #31
    almas1985's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview


    The full panoply of Achaemenid warriors – the equipment and military attire have been recreated by Ardeshir Radpour

    Recreation of an Immortal Guardsman of the Achaemenid Armies by Ardeshir Radpour as they would have appeared during Xerxes’ invasion of Greece in 480 BCE (Image courtesy of Ardeshir Radpour).
    Please Make Persian units like this photos.
    Thank you

  12. #32
    Linke's Avatar Hazarapatish
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    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by almas1985 View Post

    The full panoply of Achaemenid warriors – the equipment and military attire have been recreated by Ardeshir Radpour

    Recreation of an Immortal Guardsman of the Achaemenid Armies by Ardeshir Radpour as they would have appeared during Xerxes’ invasion of Greece in 480 BCE (Image courtesy of Ardeshir Radpour).
    Please Make Persian units like this photos.
    Thank you
    Those are some of the images I used for reference. I'd say, especially my immortals already look quite similar. It migh be more apperant in game, especially the Archer immortals (who will also have axes) will look similar to mr Radpour's presentation.
    Is there any specific detail you would like to see added from these pictures? The shields won't be used by Spear Immortals, the Spara was obvously more suited for the role of Spearmen, holding the line. But the arhers can have more round Taka shields.

    The standard bearer looks amazing, in a update I might change them to look more like that guy. The blue officer looks a bit lik some generals will. Sadly there is no such tunic in game, I will have to learn to create models myself.

  13. #33
    almas1985's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview


    Achaemenian Elite Persian Immortal Heavy Armor - Ardeshir Radpour

    Achaemenian Elite Persian Immortal



    I think persian light infantry used spara shield and immortals used another shields.


  14. #34
    Linke's Avatar Hazarapatish
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    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview

    If it looks better without Spara shields I can remove them . Probably will

  15. #35

    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview

    Almas, thanks for the help but we have enough sources as references. In fact, we took those pictures as inspiration for our persians

  16. #36
    almas1985's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview

    In my opinion, The Elite Immortals (Arstibara) should have metal Helmets.
    and Persian unit should have a uniform style & color.

    Thank you for this great mod.

  17. #37
    Linke's Avatar Hazarapatish
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    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview

    This helmet is already being used by the Immortals.
    The Persian immortals have three options. Use "tiaras", the caps wich are in your pics (wich is what I went with) or helmets. The tiaras are reserved for the Arstibara, and except one helmet I don't know wich others they would use, the Persians didn't have too many helmets (cavalry did but not infantry) at this time.

    Here are Iranian helmets from archeology. 14-20 are Achaemenid, some of them are maybe not Persian but from Persian subjects but it does support the notion of Achaemenids wearing helmets. I will add them aswell if they look better (2/5 will have helmets)

    There was no uniform in armies until modern times. It looks way better with more colours aswell. I Spent some time creating tunics that can have more than 3 different colours and getting the colours right.
    Last edited by Linke; May 03, 2015 at 12:51 PM.

  18. #38
    almas1985's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview

    what is your opinion about hats of this unit?

  19. #39
    almas1985's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview

    I used this helmet for Immortals

  20. #40
    Linke's Avatar Hazarapatish
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    Default Re: GaW - Persia Preview

    The first hats are good but not for Immortals. The helmet you used I think is based on anarcheological finding if an Armenian helmet, not a Persian one. In game the Carthaginian Pylos helmet resembles on of the Achaemenid helmets found.

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