Paying for mods?

[Ahiga]

From what Chesko has described it appears possible that someone could ultimately take another total war modder's work (say, make a half-assed mini mod of DEI or Radious which is little more than just 'throw some Roman gear on Spartan units') and sell it without the explicit permission of the original authors (In this example, DEI or Radious). That is going to dramatically scale back the willingness of people to release open source projects, or damn well any sort of public project to speak of. Even if you are supportive of free modding few people are willing to be ripped off and made to work for another's dime. I already saw people taking my friend Kuauik's work from 1257 without permission. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt they are going to if they could make a buck off it. My own work is absolute dogcrap compared to Kuauiks but I have no interest in wasting hours upon hours of my free time to see some worthless piece of trash come along and get Valve money for my work.

And the absolutely perverse fact is that even if the thief is caught, Valve will not reimburse the customers (let alone the original author). They will quite literally make a profit off a theft they have facilitated.

I will hope the more networked and organized modders than amateur hours like me will be getting in touch with lawyers and determining their rights and valve's liability about. Because it seems absolutely bananas that they believe they can steal other people's work and sell it as their own.


So no I'm not buying a mod and I am not buying any games that promote this.

[Tariq]

Remember though, it is only an option. One that could potentially benefit everybody. But the TWcenter will still be here, they can't take that away, so there will always be free mods made by paragons of the field such as you and your team

You do know that they can make game only modded by modding tools that they provide (or sell) to you and then force you to be able only upload to the Steam workshop along with agreement that you will charge for it.

For any Developer it doesn't take much time to make that.And that could be very easily next step in their pursue for that extra buck..say Elder scrolls 6 comes out with that, no way you prevent that.I know it's a conspiracy theory , but very plausible one, if they getaway with this righ now.

[Lugo]

Valve going full scumlord is extremely disheartening.

[Hewitt212]

You do know that they can make game only modded by modding tools that they provide (or sell) to you and then force you to be able only upload to the Steam workshop along with agreement that you will charge for it.

For any Developer it doesn't take much time to make that.And that could be very easily next step in their pursue for that extra buck..say Elder scrolls 6 comes out with that, no way you prevent that.I know it's a conspiracy theory , but very plausible one, if they getaway with this righ now.

If there's one thing I've learnt, it's never underestimate the ingenuity of people with a cause. If they do make such a system it will be broken wide open within a week. If you can pirate full, steam protected games, there will be options to pirate paid mods, too. (I'm not supporting piracy, but it will happen)

[Tariq]

If there's one thing I've learnt, it's never underestimate the ingenuity of people with a cause. If they do make such a system it will be broken wide open within a week. If you can pirate full, steam protected games, there will be options to pirate paid mods, too. (I'm not supporting piracy, but it will happen)

Yeah well it won't help me, because i would never put anything pirated on my PC, so i will be SOL. I can't play vanilla TW game or ES game. They are never good or complete.And i am not paying Steam money for mods..modders directly, fair option, greedy corp not so much.

[Magnar]

I'm really curious to hear something from the "big" total war modders and how they see this.

Not sure if i count as a "big" tw modder but as I've stated in the past I am and have always been against the monetisation of mods

[The Hedge Knight]

Not sure if i count as a "big" tw modder but as I've stated in the past I am and have always been against the monetisation of mods

I think you probably count .

[craziii]

From what Chesko has described it appears possible that someone could ultimately take another total war modder's work (say, make a half-assed mini mod of DEI or Radious which is little more than just 'throw some Roman gear on Spartan units') and sell it without the explicit permission of the original authors (In this example, DEI or Radious). That is going to dramatically scale back the willingness of people to release open source projects, or damn well any sort of public project to speak of. Even if you are supportive of free modding few people are willing to be ripped off and made to work for another's dime. I already saw people taking my friend Kuauik's work from 1257 without permission. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt they are going to if they could make a buck off it. My own work is absolute dogcrap compared to Kuauiks but I have no interest in wasting hours upon hours of my free time to see some worthless piece of trash come along and get Valve money for my work.

And the absolutely perverse fact is that even if the thief is caught, Valve will not reimburse the customers (let alone the original author). They will quite literally make a profit off a theft they have facilitated.

I will hope the more networked and organized modders than amateur hours like me will be getting in touch with lawyers and determining their rights and valve's liability about. Because it seems absolutely bananas that they believe they can steal other people's work and sell it as their own.


So no I'm not buying a mod and I am not buying any games that promote this.

yep. basically valve just want 75% of the revenue. the rest, it doesn't care.

the only way to fight this, a lawyer firm suing valve in a class action lawsuit. valve is a big fat whale, I am sure alot of firms are eyeing this. at least I hope so.

[sobchack]

This will lead to a smaller modding community.

i don't think this is how economics work, financial incentive should (in theory) boost quality and attract more experienced modders to actually finish ambitious projects.

The main challenge is going to be keeping people away that are only interested in a quick buck.

[Lugo]

i don't think this is how economics work, financial incentive should (in theory) boost quality and attract more experienced modders to actually finish ambitious projects.

The main challenge is going to be keeping people away that are only interested in a quick buck.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

The majority of modders will never see a penny from this because they don't get paid if their mod doesn't clear $400. Most super successful mods/modders already have people willing to donate directly to them where they actually see 100% of profit.

This will more than anything effectively destroy mod scenes altogether, especially of the community project varieties.

[Theophanu]

You do know that they can make game only modded by modding tools that they provide (or sell) to you and then force you to be able only upload to the Steam workshop along with agreement that you will charge for it.

This is going to happen.
One day they will restrict access to the necessary developer tools to those modders who accept to host their mods on steam only and files produced by the tools will be signed with DRM marks to hinder pirating mods (they say) and - as a side effect or hidden intention - hinder the free exchange of files among modders and the release of any working free mod outside of steam. This new business model entails a destructive logic dictated by boundless greed. I'm very sad, it's inevitably going to happen as it maximizes profits.

[Hadrien Ier]

From what Chesko has described it appears possible that someone could ultimately take another total war modder's work (say, make a half-assed mini mod of DEI or Radious which is little more than just 'throw some Roman gear on Spartan units') and sell it without the explicit permission of the original authors (In this example, DEI or Radious). That is going to dramatically scale back the willingness of people to release open source projects, or damn well any sort of public project to speak of. Even if you are supportive of free modding few people are willing to be ripped off and made to work for another's dime. I already saw people taking my friend Kuauik's work from 1257 without permission. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt they are going to if they could make a buck off it. My own work is absolute dogcrap compared to Kuauiks but I have no interest in wasting hours upon hours of my free time to see some worthless piece of trash come along and get Valve money for my work.

And the absolutely perverse fact is that even if the thief is caught, Valve will not reimburse the customers (let alone the original author). They will quite literally make a profit off a theft they have facilitated.

I will hope the more networked and organized modders than amateur hours like me will be getting in touch with lawyers and determining their rights and valve's liability about. Because it seems absolutely bananas that they believe they can steal other people's work and sell it as their own.


So no I'm not buying a mod and I am not buying any games that promote this.

Well said Ahiga. I love the Bethesda and Valve games, i was hoping Fallout 4, HL3 (yeah i know) etc... but with all this full of story i really don't want to spend my money in those games.

This type of bad move induce anything but a legal or moral behavior at all stage (piracy, stealing others modders for greed).

At worst the actual modding scene can suffer from some kind of rivality or jealousy between narcissists but now it can be a hell of new world full of greedy bastards.

Anyway The Witcher 3 is incoming and i guarantee that i will pay for it... at least the guys from CD Projekt Red don't mess with us (hopefully).

[Garbarsardar]

In the past ten years, on TWC, we have adopted a very concise and detailed policy to protect the work of modders. We have set very strict rules for permissions, accreditation, sub mods, and we have mercilessly penalised members who deviate from these rules. We have often been accused of being pedantic and obtuse. We have suspended members, often indefinitely for "stealing" mod material, and we have removed mods for simply omitting due credit. The process is often difficult, it requires diligence and a great amount of effort from staff and members alike to trace any transgression.

This idea practically throws modders to the proverbial lions. While we already have cases where people outside TWC are selling (or attempt to sell) mods on e-bay, this new institutionalized environment will give to all sorts of weasels more incentive to engage in such disgraceful practices, while offering a symbolic pittance (or nothing) to members that have struggled long and hard in a communal spirit and have been rewarded so far by recognition only.

I have donated money in the past and I will continue doing so in mods hosted outside the site, as I am aware of the costs involved in maintaining a domain and paying for bandwidth, but I am not willing to contribute in any pimping initiative that regards modders as prostitutes and treats them accordingly.

[ra2z]

I cant shove money out of my ass for Micro DLC mods. This is just a scum bag move that modders are exploiting. This system will only benefiet those who have the cash to give out, but people like me will not be able to afford it and we will me limited in what mods we can obtain.

[Lugotorix]

I think I'm going to reverse stance on this. Too much potential for abuse years from now by the developers and valve. The only mod content I'd pay for would include a brand new map. A donation feature is perfectly fine.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

So far, I think the best post on this subject was on Reddit.

Individually, for Skyrim or Total War, I'll have dozens, if not hundreds of mods. Individually, each one is worth something. I recognize that modders put a lot of work into these projects, and many are quite high quality.

But I can't be paying, you know, thirty to a hundred dollars for all my mods together. Especially when you consider that there are few, if any quality guidelines, and you don't even know if all the mods will work together well. Rather than promoting modding, I feel like this is just going to make it so complicated and expensive that nobody is going to bother.

This is like DLC without any of the upsides, without assured compatibility or official support.

So, no, Im not going to pay for mods, ever.

[Humble Warrior]

It was going to happen. Steam was never your friend. The signs were there from over 5 years ago and some of us didn`t like what they were doing then. Now valve feel they have enough of you that you`ll be too high on the Steam `drug` to turn away. Mark my words that if Steam gets away with this, Origin, UbI and all the rest will copy them.

Perhaps this is a good thing in a way, because some of you had to have it happen or you would never have believed it.

[xjlxking]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/...er-mods-assets

Apparently, Valve/Steam is dealing with some of the issues that people brought up here like
-Stealing of other people's work


The problem i still see is that, how difficult is it to prove that it's your "mod".

[xjlxking]

It was going to happen. Steam was never your friend. The signs were there from over 5 years ago and some of us didn`t like what they were doing then. Now valve feel they have enough of you that you`ll be too high on the Steam `drug` to turn away. Mark my words that if Steam gets away with this, Origin, UbI and all the rest will copy them.

Perhaps this is a good thing in a way, because some of you had to have it happen or you would never have believed it.

Any company, I don't care what company it is, has a goal. It's goal is to make money for it's stock holders, this is the number one priority of any company. It's what you learn in 101 Finance and 101 Accounting. If anyone viewed Valve as their friend, that person deserves to lose all their money.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]