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Thread: Naval models editing

  1. #1
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    Default Naval models editing

    As requested (long ago, life is complicated etc.), I've finally taken a second look at models_naval db table, and it seems that I got something that looks like legit complete decoding.

    Example decodings attached for standalone tables from Shogun 2's data.pack. It's not yet a full decoder/encoder, so it might all turn out to fail somehow, but it's also entirely possible that this would allow ship model editing in every Total War game from Empire onwards.

    If anybody wants to take a look at these - most structures are labelled with whatever they were called in example logic.xml, but there's still a bunch of unknown fields and numbers. For a few I took a reasonable guess (like navalcams really look like 4x4 camera matrixes), some others I just labelled "something" or "a/b/c" etc.

    I'll keep you posted on my progress here.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  2. #2

    Default Re: Naval models editing

    Just the effort diserves reputation points. Thanks

  3. #3
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Naval models editing

    Not sure it will help : [Resource] Examining models_naval tables and CA's ship model

    Sadly, CA give us a very limited raw model, the Bow_Kobaya.
    So, some fields are still unknown.

    The good news is that models_naval tables structure keep a lot of similarities between ETW, NTW, TWS2.
    It's even better with cs2.parsed because it is possible to use TWS2 one (as well a rigid_model after converting them) into NTW and ETW.
    Last edited by wangrin; April 23, 2015 at 02:19 PM.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

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    Default Re: Naval models editing

    Quote Originally Posted by wangrin View Post
    Not sure it will help : [Resource] Examining models_naval tables and CA's ship model

    Sadly, CA give us a very limited raw model, the Bow_Kobaya.
    So, some fields are still unknown.

    The good news is that models_naval tables structure keep a lot of similarities between ETW, NTW, TWS2.
    It's even better with cs2.parsed because it is possible to use TWS2 one (as well a rigid_model after converting them) into NTW and ETW.
    The CA example was extremely useful. I tried it a few years back on ETW/NTW tables without any example and I couldn't make it work.

    There's a bunch of extra fields of unknown meaning, but for S2TW standalone table known structure at least.

    Next steps for me are:
    • scan .packs for all games for naval models (including bulk of S2TW models)
    • check if they use same schema, or very similar schema
    • if so, write models_naval <-> xml converter, with structure similar to Bow_Kobaya example (it can't be quite the same, there's a bunch of extra stuff there)
    • figure out plausible meaning of some extra stuff (that other thread has a few useful ideas here, but I can see it missed a bunch of structures as well)
    • I'll leave it up to other people to go from xml to adding extra ships
    Last edited by taw; April 23, 2015 at 03:28 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Naval models editing

    I gathered all model data from Empire, Napoleon, Shogun 2, and Rome 2.


    • Empire (v1) - 100% done
    • Napoleon (v1) - 100% done
    • Shogun 2 (v7) - 100% done
    • Rome 2 (v12) - 100% done


    The only problem I ran into is that Empire and Napoleon use different schema, but have same version number, so decoder will need to be told which one the file is from.
    I've seen similar problems before with other file types, before they figured out that they should use proper versioning system.

    Next steps are XML exporter, and finally XML reimporter.

  6. #6
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Naval models editing

    Yep, having the .max model and .xml file and comparing to models_naval tables helped a lot.
    But CA didn't provide an example with guns, sails and/or propeller.

    I will try to have a look this weekend.
    It is useful to compare 3d model to models_naval tables as a lot a data are 3d data


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

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    Default Re: Naval models editing

    Enjoy models_naval to XML decoder.

    Attached are XML decodings of all models_naval tables from all games.

    Code is at https://github.com/taw/etwng/tree/master/models_naval

    There could be bugs, obviously. Writing XML to models_naval encoder should find them all, but that's a project for another day.

    I tried to follow example's structure as much as reasonable, but it only mostly fits. There's a lot of extra stuff there which I had to tag somehow, and especially <pipes> stuff has very little similarity between example and what's actually in data.

    Hopefully it will be useful. I'll keep you posted if I write XML encoder. If you have better names for tags, definitely tell me.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Naval models editing

    Cannons look fairly simple, here's example (ntw-models_naval_dir/ship-hms_elephant.xml):


    <cannons>
    <cannon a="2" b="3" type="cannon_stern" x1="-1.647" x2="-1.65" y1="3.207" y2="3.207" z1="-1.647" z2="-1.65"/>
    <cannon a="1" b="3" type="cannon_stern" x1="1.569" x2="1.566" y1="3.223" y2="3.223" z1="1.569" z2="1.566"/>
    <cannon a="2" b="1" type="cannon_bow" x1="-1.752" x2="-1.749" y1="6.675" y2="6.675" z1="-1.752" z2="-1.749"/>
    <cannon a="71" b="1" type="cannon" x1="-3.416" x2="-3.786" y1="6.487" y2="6.487" z1="-3.416" z2="-3.786"/>
    <cannon a="70" b="1" type="cannon" x1="-3.815" x2="-4.185" y1="6.417" y2="6.417" z1="-3.815" z2="-4.185"/>
    <cannon a="69" b="0" type="cannon" x1="-2.785" x2="-3.155" y1="9.051" y2="9.051" z1="-2.785" z2="-3.155"/>
    <cannon a="68" b="0" type="cannon" x1="-2.578" x2="-2.949" y1="9.17" y2="9.17" z1="-2.578" z2="-2.949"/>
    <cannon a="67" b="1" type="cannon" x1="3.458" x2="3.828" y1="6.495" y2="6.495" z1="3.458" z2="3.828"/>
    <cannon a="66" b="0" type="cannon" x1="2.583" x2="2.953" y1="9.178" y2="9.178" z1="2.583" z2="2.953"/>
    <cannon a="65" b="0" type="cannon" x1="2.806" x2="3.176" y1="9.035" y2="9.035" z1="2.806" z2="3.176"/>
    <cannon a="64" b="1" type="cannon" x1="3.808" x2="4.178" y1="6.389" y2="6.389" z1="3.808" z2="4.178"/>
    <cannon a="63" b="1" type="cannon" x1="3.405" x2="3.775" y1="6.555" y2="6.555" z1="3.405" z2="3.775"/>
    <cannon a="62" b="1" type="cannon" x1="3.581" x2="3.951" y1="6.447" y2="6.447" z1="3.581" z2="3.951"/>
    <cannon a="61" b="1" type="cannon" x1="3.755" x2="4.125" y1="6.349" y2="6.349" z1="3.755" z2="4.125"/>
    <cannon a="60" b="1" type="cannon" x1="-3.147" x2="-3.517" y1="6.547" y2="6.547" z1="-3.147" z2="-3.517"/>
    <cannon a="59" b="1" type="cannon" x1="-3.319" x2="-3.689" y1="6.437" y2="6.437" z1="-3.319" z2="-3.689"/>
    <cannon a="58" b="1" type="cannon" x1="-3.505" x2="-3.876" y1="6.35" y2="6.35" z1="-3.505" z2="-3.876"/>
    <cannon a="1" b="1" type="cannon_bow" x1="1.745" x2="1.748" y1="6.675" y2="6.675" z1="1.745" z2="1.748"/>
    <cannon a="56" b="3" type="cannon" x1="-3.859" x2="-4.229" y1="2.395" y2="2.395" z1="-3.859" z2="-4.229"/>
    <cannon a="55" b="3" type="cannon" x1="-4.264" x2="-4.634" y1="2.259" y2="2.259" z1="-4.264" z2="-4.634"/>
    <cannon a="54" b="3" type="cannon" x1="-4.568" x2="-4.938" y1="2.121" y2="2.121" z1="-4.568" z2="-4.938"/>
    <cannon a="53" b="3" type="cannon" x1="-4.773" x2="-5.143" y1="2.069" y2="2.069" z1="-4.773" z2="-5.143"/>
    <cannon a="52" b="3" type="cannon" x1="-4.902" x2="-5.272" y1="2.066" y2="2.066" z1="-4.902" z2="-5.272"/>
    <cannon a="51" b="3" type="cannon" x1="-4.935" x2="-5.305" y1="2.068" y2="2.068" z1="-4.935" z2="-5.305"/>
    <cannon a="50" b="3" type="cannon" x1="-4.905" x2="-5.275" y1="2.077" y2="2.077" z1="-4.905" z2="-5.275"/>
    <cannon a="49" b="3" type="cannon" x1="-4.805" x2="-5.175" y1="2.15" y2="2.15" z1="-4.805" z2="-5.175"/>
    <cannon a="48" b="3" type="cannon" x1="-4.67" x2="-5.041" y1="2.212" y2="2.212" z1="-4.67" z2="-5.041"/>
    <cannon a="47" b="3" type="cannon" x1="-4.531" x2="-4.901" y1="2.31" y2="2.31" z1="-4.531" z2="-4.901"/>
    <cannon a="46" b="3" type="cannon" x1="-4.323" x2="-4.694" y1="2.485" y2="2.485" z1="-4.323" z2="-4.694"/>
    <cannon a="45" b="3" type="cannon" x1="-4.194" x2="-4.564" y1="2.622" y2="2.622" z1="-4.194" z2="-4.564"/>
    <cannon a="44" b="3" type="cannon" x1="-3.831" x2="-4.201" y1="2.857" y2="2.857" z1="-3.831" z2="-4.201"/>
    <cannon a="43" b="3" type="cannon" x1="-3.36" x2="-3.73" y1="3.111" y2="3.111" z1="-3.36" z2="-3.73"/>
    <cannon a="42" b="2" type="cannon" x1="-3.212" x2="-3.582" y1="4.967" y2="4.967" z1="-3.212" z2="-3.582"/>
    <cannon a="41" b="2" type="cannon" x1="-3.681" x2="-4.051" y1="4.757" y2="4.757" z1="-3.681" z2="-4.051"/>
    <cannon a="40" b="2" type="cannon" x1="-3.56" x2="-3.93" y1="4.533" y2="4.533" z1="-3.56" z2="-3.93"/>
    <cannon a="39" b="2" type="cannon" x1="-3.712" x2="-4.082" y1="4.352" y2="4.352" z1="-3.712" z2="-4.082"/>
    <cannon a="38" b="2" type="cannon" x1="-3.813" x2="-4.183" y1="4.225" y2="4.225" z1="-3.813" z2="-4.183"/>
    <cannon a="37" b="2" type="cannon" x1="-3.863" x2="-4.233" y1="4.12" y2="4.12" z1="-3.863" z2="-4.233"/>
    <cannon a="36" b="2" type="cannon" x1="-4.039" x2="-4.409" y1="4.045" y2="4.045" z1="-4.039" z2="-4.409"/>
    <cannon a="35" b="2" type="cannon" x1="-4.041" x2="-4.411" y1="4.014" y2="4.014" z1="-4.041" z2="-4.411"/>
    <cannon a="34" b="2" type="cannon" x1="-4.022" x2="-4.392" y1="3.997" y2="3.997" z1="-4.022" z2="-4.392"/>
    <cannon a="33" b="2" type="cannon" x1="-3.994" x2="-4.365" y1="3.997" y2="3.997" z1="-3.994" z2="-4.365"/>
    <cannon a="32" b="2" type="cannon" x1="-3.904" x2="-4.274" y1="4.047" y2="4.047" z1="-3.904" z2="-4.274"/>
    <cannon a="31" b="2" type="cannon" x1="-3.722" x2="-4.092" y1="4.136" y2="4.136" z1="-3.722" z2="-4.092"/>
    <cannon a="30" b="2" type="cannon" x1="-3.535" x2="-3.905" y1="4.241" y2="4.241" z1="-3.535" z2="-3.905"/>
    <cannon a="29" b="2" type="cannon" x1="-3.3" x2="-3.67" y1="4.425" y2="4.425" z1="-3.3" z2="-3.67"/>
    <cannon a="28" b="3" type="cannon" x1="3.862" x2="4.232" y1="2.406" y2="2.406" z1="3.862" z2="4.232"/>
    <cannon a="27" b="3" type="cannon" x1="4.254" x2="4.624" y1="2.282" y2="2.282" z1="4.254" z2="4.624"/>
    <cannon a="26" b="3" type="cannon" x1="4.583" x2="4.953" y1="2.16" y2="2.16" z1="4.583" z2="4.953"/>
    <cannon a="25" b="3" type="cannon" x1="4.742" x2="5.112" y1="2.092" y2="2.092" z1="4.742" z2="5.112"/>
    <cannon a="24" b="3" type="cannon" x1="4.901" x2="5.271" y1="2.084" y2="2.084" z1="4.901" z2="5.271"/>
    <cannon a="23" b="3" type="cannon" x1="4.902" x2="5.272" y1="2.072" y2="2.072" z1="4.902" z2="5.272"/>
    <cannon a="22" b="3" type="cannon" x1="4.899" x2="5.27" y1="2.084" y2="2.084" z1="4.899" z2="5.27"/>
    <cannon a="21" b="3" type="cannon" x1="4.794" x2="5.164" y1="2.151" y2="2.151" z1="4.794" z2="5.164"/>
    <cannon a="20" b="3" type="cannon" x1="4.548" x2="4.918" y1="2.222" y2="2.222" z1="4.548" z2="4.918"/>
    <cannon a="19" b="3" type="cannon" x1="4.44" x2="4.81" y1="2.308" y2="2.308" z1="4.44" z2="4.81"/>
    <cannon a="18" b="3" type="cannon" x1="4.341" x2="4.711" y1="2.446" y2="2.446" z1="4.341" z2="4.711"/>
    <cannon a="17" b="3" type="cannon" x1="4.106" x2="4.476" y1="2.591" y2="2.591" z1="4.106" z2="4.476"/>
    <cannon a="16" b="3" type="cannon" x1="3.826" x2="4.196" y1="2.861" y2="2.861" z1="3.826" z2="4.196"/>
    <cannon a="15" b="3" type="cannon" x1="3.384" x2="3.755" y1="3.148" y2="3.148" z1="3.384" z2="3.755"/>
    <cannon a="14" b="2" type="cannon" x1="3.082" x2="3.452" y1="4.957" y2="4.957" z1="3.082" z2="3.452"/>
    <cannon a="13" b="2" type="cannon" x1="3.408" x2="3.778" y1="4.671" y2="4.671" z1="3.408" z2="3.778"/>
    <cannon a="12" b="2" type="cannon" x1="3.57" x2="3.941" y1="4.512" y2="4.512" z1="3.57" z2="3.941"/>
    <cannon a="11" b="2" type="cannon" x1="3.701" x2="4.071" y1="4.368" y2="4.368" z1="3.701" z2="4.071"/>
    <cannon a="10" b="2" type="cannon" x1="3.825" x2="4.195" y1="4.237" y2="4.237" z1="3.825" z2="4.195"/>
    <cannon a="9" b="2" type="cannon" x1="3.893" x2="4.263" y1="4.123" y2="4.123" z1="3.893" z2="4.263"/>
    <cannon a="8" b="2" type="cannon" x1="3.995" x2="4.365" y1="4.058" y2="4.058" z1="3.995" z2="4.365"/>
    <cannon a="7" b="2" type="cannon" x1="4.063" x2="4.434" y1="4.015" y2="4.015" z1="4.063" z2="4.434"/>
    <cannon a="6" b="2" type="cannon" x1="4.045" x2="4.415" y1="3.989" y2="3.989" z1="4.045" z2="4.415"/>
    <cannon a="5" b="2" type="cannon" x1="4.012" x2="4.382" y1="3.996" y2="3.996" z1="4.012" z2="4.382"/>
    <cannon a="4" b="2" type="cannon" x1="3.937" x2="4.307" y1="4.033" y2="4.033" z1="3.937" z2="4.307"/>
    <cannon a="3" b="2" type="cannon" x1="3.736" x2="4.106" y1="4.131" y2="4.131" z1="3.736" z2="4.106"/>
    <cannon a="2" b="2" type="cannon" x1="3.566" x2="3.936" y1="4.224" y2="4.224" z1="3.566" z2="3.936"/>
    <cannon a="1" b="2" type="cannon" x1="3.297" x2="3.667" y1="4.393" y2="4.393" z1="3.297" z2="3.667"/>
    </cannons>


    Not sure what those two numbers mean (gun id, gun group id?), and what two vectors represent, but that's probably simple to figure out.

    (a lot more examples in XMLs attached to another post)

  9. #9
    Primergy's Avatar Protector of the Union
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    Default Re: Naval models editing

    Damn, that was quick!

    Which Jruby version do you need for it? I'm getting "syntaxerror unexpected ':' at x: get_flt, y: get_flt, z: get_flt"

    The last time i had such an error i had a wrong version.
    Last edited by Primergy; April 24, 2015 at 11:33 AM.

  10. #10
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Naval models editing

    "a" number is likely the cannon id.
    "b" is definitively the deck id.

    A1{x1, y1, z1} A2{x2, y2, z2} define a vector.
    one of these points is likely use to center the model.

    Looking at ETW 1deck32_sp and bomb_ketch, they are of the same lenght and direction : x=0.370, y=0, z=0.370.
    Apart for bomb ketch whose deck 2 cannons (mortars) vector is : x=0, y=0, z=0.
    Last edited by wangrin; April 24, 2015 at 12:31 PM.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Naval models editing

    Quote Originally Posted by Primergy View Post
    Damn, that was quick!

    Which Jruby version do you need for it? I'm getting "syntaxerror unexpected ':' at x: get_flt, y: get_flt, z: get_flt"

    The last time i had such an error i had a wrong version.
    Yeah, it's version issue. Just grab the newest one.

    At least it's generally backwards compatible unlike Python 3, so you only need the latest version, not 2 different versions installed at once :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by wangrin View Post
    "a" number is likely the cannon id.
    "b" is definitively the deck id.

    A1{x1, y1, z1} A2{x2, y2, z2} define a vector.
    one of these points is likely use to center the model.

    Looking at ETW 1deck32_sp and bomb_ketch, they are of the same lenght and direction : x=0.370, y=0, z=0.370.
    Apart for bomb ketch whose deck 2 cannons (mortars) vector is : x=0, y=0, z=0.
    I'll call A cannon_id and B deck_id then.

    There's a lot more such attributes someone will have to look at manually. :-)

  12. #12

    Default Re: Naval models editing

    dont know where to ask this because noone seems to answer me, I would jsut ask the expert here. So before the naval model, i tried to edit the yari samurai unit, I change their model in the uniform table to katana samurai (because katana samurai armour looks better for me) but I encountered a problem, my change works well but the yari samurai UI changed into the katana samurai UI, which is annoying when selecting units lol. So is there a way for me to change the yari samurai model to katana samurai but keep the yari samurai unit card?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Naval models editing

    Quote Originally Posted by cheburashka307 View Post
    dont know where to ask this because noone seems to answer me, I would jsut ask the expert here. So before the naval model, i tried to edit the yari samurai unit, I change their model in the uniform table to katana samurai (because katana samurai armour looks better for me) but I encountered a problem, my change works well but the yari samurai UI changed into the katana samurai UI, which is annoying when selecting units lol. So is there a way for me to change the yari samurai model to katana samurai but keep the yari samurai unit card?
    That's definitely a wrong place to ask :-)

  14. #14
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Naval models editing

    Python version could be an issue for modders who use KnoghtErrant converter for ETW .variant_weighted_mesh.
    KnightErrant work only with python 2.7.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

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    Default Re: Naval models editing

    Changing program from Python 2 to Python 3 is usually relatively straightforward.
    If that's causing major issues to people, I could do some such conversions.

    With Ruby it's even easier - just grab the latest version, everything will run.

  16. #16
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Naval models editing

    KnightErrant converter work only with Python 2.7.
    It's not a problem for me as I own UU3D and its ETW plugin, but not all modder use it.
    On the other hand, if a modder really want to work on ships, he will have to buy UU3D, because KE tool convert models to .ms3d and this file format is not able to handle more than ... vertex or ... faces.
    So, big ships cannot be converted to .ms3d.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  17. #17
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Naval models editing

    Bow Kobaya 3d model :


    • bobby and bobbylink objects

      1. 2. 3.

    • pipe

      1.

    • naval cam

      1.

      Camera is composed of two object : camera location and camera target :

      1. 2.

      Navalcam_01 location is : x=2.267 ; y=9.258 ; z=0.0
      Navalcam_01 target location is : x=-2.833; y=-8.19 ; z=0.0

      In models_naval tables, we find :
      Code:
        <navalcam name="navalcam_01">
         -0.8360563516616821 -6.705522537231445e-08 0.5486427545547485 0.0
         -0.16182249784469604 0.955512523651123 -0.24659529328346252 0.0
         -0.5242350101470947 -0.2949504554271698 -0.7988623380661011 0.0
         2.811586380004883 6.749256134033203 9.11796 1.0247820615768433
      So, all the problem is to find what define camera.
      It could be 4 vectors, a location and angles of aperture, etc.

    • collision model :

      1.



    Superposition of Bobby, Bobbylink and collision model :



    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  18. #18
    Artifex
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    Default Re: Naval models editing

    I'd assume camera is standard camera 4x4 matrix. Block of [0 0 0 1] on the side really look like one. OK, that last one is not technically 1.0 but 1.024782 so it might be something slightly funny going on, but it would surprise me a lot if it was something else.

  19. #19
    Artifex
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    Default Re: Naval models editing

    Cannons in previous XML are wrong, I accidentally printed x,y,x instead of x,y,z. And there were a few other errors, as expected from first version of anything.

    Anyway, that's now all fixed. Converter both ways is ready in etwng repository. No errors on round trips in any model from any of 4 games tested.

    Attached are (fixed) unpacked XMLs.

    That mostly ends my role in this. It's up to you guys to now turn these XMLs into something useful.

    Of course if you figure out what various things I label "a"/"b"/"c"/"something"/"zero"/etc. are, drop a message in this thread and I'll update converters to use better names.

    (I'm still taking requests for formats if anybody needs them, I'd love to figure out UI formats too, but without some xml example that might be too hard)
    Attached Files Attached Files

  20. #20
    Primergy's Avatar Protector of the Union
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    Default Re: Naval models editing

    Quote Originally Posted by taw View Post
    Yeah, it's version issue. Just grab the newest one.

    At least it's generally backwards compatible unlike Python 3, so you only need the latest version, not 2 different versions installed at once :-)
    Ok, i now installed the jruby 9.0000 pre version and still get the same error, is it possible that linux version is already more advanced?

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