Ask and Answer all about Campaign AI stuff

[SharpEyed]

Hmm, interesting

Can we get to see your mod loading order?
Because it seems like Radious is above Better AI atm, but wanna be sure

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

I once again started as Ostrogoths and therefore can see what my allied Visigoths horde AI is doing. Strangely they try to settle in the first city they raid

Luck perhaps, i play as ERE and they just sack my settlement countless time before ended up in Italy. Do you use other mod that also change occupation. Steam mod manager version is ed up since they cant load mod in correct order.Can you list other mod you use and how you put them in order on mitch mod manager (if u use it)

basically WRE is pulling all their armies just to chase me down, ignoring every other faction taking their settlements.
Is this a built-in "I hate the player more than anything else"- mode or the AI acting weird?

That strange i do make sure the AI only act for their own benefit, i even disable AI heat target system for human player

Ebdanians are ALWAYS lurking around in Gaul instead of fighting WRE/Brittania overthe Isles. The Viking nations also sail down to North Africa/Southern Spain and settle there. ?!?! Shouldn't they go raid Brittania/Germania/Atlantic coast?

I just play Jutes and my puppet Danes already go to British isle along with Angles Faction trying to wrestle power from it. And that happens under 20 turn from the game start. Dont know what your problem. If you not noticed it i already updated current V 3.6 official version with new one, basicly its change the starting army number from 2 into 6 stack on early imperium level and change several stuff. And its realy make big difference from early games. British isle is hard to be taken down



Oh Yes the AI act according to the movie "Viking" i watch. I already on my way to "Viking Great Heathen Army" , I hope someday there is mod that can give general Ragnar Longbrok in the game

In my current game Ebdanians control most of British Isle, so far we vikings already manages to crack London

[SharpEyed]

hey mate, I know your mod provides easy access to Artillery (Onagers lets say) but do you think lowering this would help to AI?
for the times they have to wait for tons of turns *yawns*

Click to view content: 

sadly couldn't find the siege engines workforce value, maybe it's hardcoded idk.

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

In order to test it you need save game that contain AI siege walled settlement then you can test it each time you change the value will lowering make it faster or slower. Testing AI require correct save game for correct situation.

[SharpEyed]

In order to test it you need save game that contain AI siege walled settlement then you can test it each time you change the value will lowering make it faster or slower. Testing AI require correct save game for correct situation.

Yea testing is always needed for AI sniff, and I don't even open the game :/

Thou I remember s/o said that AI waits till fill all siege equipment slots

[liquid'GG]

Hmm, interesting

Can we get to see your mod loading order?
Because it seems like Radious is above Better AI atm, but wanna be sure

I used the normal difficulty version when I noticed those things and played on Hard difficulty. Now I try to use the easy-version of your mod just to compare the differences.
In my old savegame I beat 4 full roman army stacks + Auqila Sextiae garrison with my 3 armies in a gigantic battle and finished of three of them entirely + the garrison, only leaving 2 small armies running away. 2-3 Turns later he (WRE) already had 3 new full armies (gathered in raided cities - ignoring the spawned seperatists) and the 2 small ones replenished and came back to fight only me.

I also unsubscribed the radious mod from steam workshop and manually downloaded the latest version so everything should work properly.

The Jutes are strangely the only viking nation acting properly in my game aswell. They subjugated the Angles and the Geats and sailed to Brittania. I can confirm that they tried to do their viking mission
Just checked for screenshots, but I deleted the campaign already, when I switched to the easy version yesterday night.

[liquid'GG]

I cannot edit my above post, but is WRE behaviour related to "whom they hate most"?

Since I guess I raided most of their cities, killed 2-3 solo armies from them (Thanks to my spymaster who had additional trait for slowing down enemy armies - they cannot escape their fate ) and killed some of their agents with my spy.

I assumed they would hate seperatists and rebels the most over anybody else, next to the huns as a natural archenemy.

[SharpEyed]

Loading order is right for sure, for the rest I will let Sir Junaidi make some explanation, since he is always better at that

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You will be able to Edit your posts after 25 or 30 posts

[SharpEyed]

hmmm another discovery btw
Should I make a mod out of it?

Click to view content: 

[liquid'GG]

Reason why Suebes seem to vanish so quickly is that they only start with 1 horde afaik. Just restarted with Vandals and watched the Suebes getting steamrolled by a bunch of WRE armies.
Is there any possibility to make horde-factions controlled by AI more sustainable or a longer game? Alans seem to suicide either into ERE or Sassanids at some point or get unlucky with some Hun spawns. Vandals and Suebes are the very first aggressors against the WRE and get punished for this. Ostrogoths/Visigoths always seem to struggle with becoming "relevant". They lurk around, settle in the middle of ERE, start war with minor factions from Eurasia and just die at some point, achieving basically nothing in the game.

Arghh need stronger hordes threatening everybody who settled and not their blood.

[SharpEyed]

Well, I have Better Hordes mod (and Less Rivalry too) you know, it should be helping a lot, but still might not be enough

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

hmmm another discovery btw
Should I make a mod out of it?

Seem i dont touch that table probably because i dont know what i am dealing with so many unkown table, hope they update pfm , yeah sure why not its still uncharted teritory

Turns later he (WRE) already had 3 new full armies (gathered in raided cities - ignoring the spawned seperatists) and the 2 small ones replenished and came back to fight only me.

Interesting case the AI ignore the separatist, and dive toward humans player, if this kind of situation is always happens repetitive different faction same M.O always target human player ignore rebel on their own midst ? Do you still have the save game prior the situation , if yes can you upload it for me to learn the main problem ?

[SharpEyed]

Seem i dont touch that table probably because i dont know what i am dealing with so many unkown table, hope they update pfm , yeah sure why not its still uncharted teritory

Well I hope the same but it doesn't seem so complicated

Cultural relations, but it's a bit detailed one,

I think with this table it's possible to make Germans hate Celts (or vice versa), same for Arabic etc cultures hate Sassanids something
And less hatred against Romans etc maybe

Btw funny that I always find the things when I'm looking for something else

[liquid'GG]

Well, I have Better Hordes mod (and Less Rivalry too) you know, it should be helping a lot, but still might not be enough

Might take a look. Thank you. What just came into my mind (while waiting in a row at the bakery ....). Give the horde army of the faction leader the trait like Attila has (defeat 2 times before faction leader becomes mortal) and reduce it to 1. So bascially hordes get a second chance.

@Junaidi: I only played Ostrogoths the last couple times, I will maybe restart as Vandals and check if they behave still that way. I deleted old savegame files, when I updated the Radious mod from yesterday and switched from NOrmal to easy from your mod.

[SharpEyed]

Might take a look. Thank you. What just came into my mind (while waiting in a row at the bakery ....). Give the horde army of the faction leader the trait like Attila has (defeat 2 times before faction leader becomes mortal) and reduce it to 1. So basically hordes get a second chance.

It is possible to make that for player Attila it appears, but for others?
Hmm tough job, ask to sir OpusDei
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...atherChange-AI

I deleted old savegame files, when I updated the Radious mod from yesterday and switched from Normal to easy from your mod.

You don't have to start a new campaign for every new version mate
Both mods are save compatible so far

[liquid'GG]

So I started as Vandals again and went to Spain - the promised land of winning the campaign in Vanilla.
I made two screenshots just before I will stop playing this campaign:



The Romans have 4 armies left, 2 of them you can see near Tarraco, the other two are hiding in the fog behind tarraco. They ONLY focus on me, they ignore defending Palma, which is getting constantly sieged&raided since 10 turns.
You also see three random factions declaring war on me and sitting between Tarraco and Palma, ready to land their forces and attack me. The first was Dacia - they ing sailed across the whole sea JUST to on me, because Alans started war with them at the beginning, but I never fought against Dacia - I was basically dragged into the war.

Then 1 germanic faction just randomly declared war to me - I never had interaction with them. They just told they are at war with me now basically - despite not having any bad standing towards them. Same happened with the Franks, which you cannot see but they are sailing down with 4 full armies from their homeland - JUST to on me again - and ignore everyting else on their homeland.

The third faction is Africa, who freed themselves from WRE but they hate that I took land from WRE in Spaion, so they declared war against me, after they offered me a traderoute 5 turns ago. ...yes makes totally sense.

The four Roman seperatists armies in Palma don't do anything, they just sit there.




This is a screenshot of the world map, basically as much as I can see now. You can clearly see that WRE has pulled everything towards my direction, and is getting sieged their CAPITAL CITY and ROME, but they ignore it. The hostile fleet on Gallaecia is the first Frank fleet arriving down here.

I genuinly start to think that going for Spain is either a bad idea because in the mod WRE starts to overthink their important provinces and Spain is somehow their most important one or the mod changes all AI aggression towards the player in such an unrealistic way that it is basically not fun. BUT I HAD DEFENSIVE SIEGE BATTLES. Abchasia (some eastern faction) declared randomly war to me and sailed down 2 fleets and welped them against Nova Carthago. - epic fight - epic fun. Didn't make much sense that some Asian guys I never heard of during my horde days during my migration declare war to me and sail down across the whole map towards me but hey I finally had defensive siege battle. I will try Sassanids next and check if somehow everybody turns against me aswell - then it is clearly the mod changing AI to be overly aggressive versus the player. A thing I like - but only if it makes sense. F.e. if I take cities in Spain that Hispania hates me. But not if I fight against the WRE and suddenly Africa -who broke their chains vs.WRE aswell start hating me for it.

[SharpEyed]

ughh it's really weird to be honest, shouldn't be like that, but calm down mate

you should update a save file (or more than one) for him to test

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

Here the most important things, i want to test, do you still have the save game and would you upload it for me

1.The Romans have 4 armies left, 2 of them you can see near Tarraco, the other two are hiding in the fog behind tarraco. They ONLY focus on me, they ignore defending Palma, which is getting constantly sieged&raided since 10 turns.

Normally its should not happens , mostly siege can be done only 1-2 turn by AI, 10 turn and that was something wrong with it. But for some reason i even notice the AI still capable to produce this random glitch, where they just siege settlement forever.There are some value missing that cause them to not capable done the job properly

2.The four Roman seperatists armies in Palma don't do anything, they just sit there.

Another mystery to solve, in theory they should attack it or sail away or anything rather sit there forever in that tiny island

3.I genuinly start to think that going for Spain is either a bad idea because in the mod WRE starts to overthink their important provinces and Spain is somehow their most important one or the mod changes all AI aggression towards the player in such an unrealistic way that it is basically not fun

Again , i already said this , i already disable human heat system target by AI also i set AI to be semi defensive on task priority, perhaps i should let them focus only on permanent defense.But i also feel your issue is same with mine Ebdanians for some unknown reason chooce to sail way to Spain, i dont know what they do that because they can sail away to Denmark or France but choice Spain, dont know why AI focus into that, its still unknown for me, also making AI focus on Spain is beyond my capability as modder, its Total War AI Dev level

I will try Sassanids next and check if somehow everybody turns against me aswell - then it is clearly the mod changing AI to be overly aggressive versus the player

Right if the same thing happened again, i will take this issue seriosly, if only happens on certain faction i cant say its bug or not.

From my experience personally as i have the time to play campaign now, i do notice the AI capabilites for Expand is without a doubt is best, but sometimes they just send most of their army to making heavy invasion toward their enemy which is fun by the way but make their defense weakened. They do tried their best with their current stack that near the island to protect againt invader . But eventually loss, while their main unit stuck on foreign enemy land, their homeland tore into piece by enemy.

Right now i set AI as semi defensive which most of their job is to protect their land, but also to capture new territory as well, perhaps i should try to reduce it to fully permanent defense. And please you must understand i never state i create Perfect AI, i only create Better Aggresive AI, sure its still have same flaw and lots of minus coming from it, but as you may notice this is only a Mod not an official patch, and its create based on my personal capabilities as modder, no matter what, i cant beat the level of true C.A AI Developer level, because they have the right tool and proper knowledge on what things should be done to improve AI in the first place. Hell i even dont get any degree for I.T stuff.

I will update the mod when new DLC campaign out. Probably try to fix some left issue like AI siege forever stuff and they just ignore to defense on first place

[SharpEyed]

even without having right tools, knowledge (and getting paid) you do better than them obviously mate dw about it

and hmm I'm not sure about why those problems happening to him, I'm not playing the game for a while but I know those shouldn't happen.

btw do you know where can I find how many siege equipment will be made when we/AI build them?
(like ladders will be 4 when you build one time)

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

Its on campaign difficult handicap Sharp , nice banner anyways , dont know you have talent as artist