Protests against Transantlantic trade treaty (TTIP) between EU-USA

[mrmouth]

Aye, finally people are seeing the petty side of the Democratic party that the rest of us Americans are more used to seeing.

By insisting for more of a 50/50 split in benefits to workers and corporations? I'd call that a win.

[Condottiere 40K]

14948
Obama may belief it's in America's long term strategic interest to dictate the global trading rules.

[Simon Cashmere]

Im getting the government shill vibe here. National Clandestine Services.

http://consciouslifenews.com/paid-in...inion-debate/#

[ShockBlast]

By insisting for more of a 50/50 split in benefits to workers and corporations? I'd call that a win.

No, it would be a win if workers got more than the corporations.

[Condottiere 40K]

23622
No, it's a win if both sides are equal, since an imbalance causes resentment and some form of readjustment later on.23633

[ShockBlast]

23622
No, it's a win if both sides are equal, since an imbalance causes resentment and some form of readjustment later on.23633

No it`s not.
The European way has always been for the workers to have a bigger share of overall winnings, they vastly outnumber the stakeholders etc. anyways.

[Sir Adrian]

23622
No, it's a win if both sides are equal, since an imbalance causes resentment and some form of readjustment later on.23633

It's winning only if brign everybody to the higher standard (in this case the Eu standards)

[Condottiere 40K]

13809
American consumers like choices, they resent being told what is good for them, going by the recent comments on banning transfats.

[Sir Adrian]

This is not about restrictions on the consumers but restrictions on what the producers can do, particularly in the field of cutting corners.

[snuggans]

No, it would be a win if workers got more than the corporations.

how does this make sense mathematically and financially other than in socialism? a business's profits should obviously be higher than what they pay their workers otherwise it's either a non-profit, a bankrupt business, some sort of money laundering scheme, or a co-op. trade treaties are not for establishing any of these things.

[Sir Adrian]

That only applies for small businesses with few employees. If you're a corporation with 10000 employees and you profit is more than double what you pay for salaries, then the people working for you should really ask themselves some questions

[DaVinci]

TTIP and such other treaties driven by the lobbyists of international active corporations, which are dealt out in secrecy are highly undemocratic processes.

Core aspects of these soon-being contracts concern us, all people, our future in diverse daily important aspects (ie. all consumer related industries, its effects on animals, the environment ... the health) and rights to own/change/use/exploit the environment aka its destruction for profits, the infrastructures, and especially also energy related (water supply, fracking, etc.). European standards, which are fairly high (in comparison) but subject for very necessary improvements, shall be frozen with TTIP. This is not fearmongering but facts.

We have invented the institution of a public 'parliament' for a purpose - the function of this democratic achievement will be circumsized with TTIP etc. treaties in many very important aspects.

Good night, europe, expect increased bad times in future, with TTIP realised ... if not very much of the TTIP-articles get highly restrictive limitation by law - the last hope, means, local laws get/keep higher value than such international trade treaties, means: democracy maintained, means: TTIP etc. is obsolete ... tolls etc. are fairly low already, deals about industrial tech-standards aka transnational valid norms can be done without TTIP ... TTIP is not needed at all for the european economy. Under the line, TTIP means increased power for international corporations to charge governments to verify their profit goals along free trade visions aka corporate capitalism, to this belongs private trade courts to fulfill those goals ie. to charge a government of money (tax money), when ie. an envisioned project-profit can't realised due to restrictions by a law.

[Dragus]

Let's not necessarily be so grim in our expectations. I'm a strong social democrat, but removing protectionism and allowing trade between continents is not inherently a bad thing. Especially if we wanted to explore an increasingly socially and economically unified western hemisphere in the coming century.

If my friends in Europe have some very respectable environmental and product quality concerns, can't ordinances to ensure these be passed in each individual nation?

[DaVinci]

Let's not necessarily be so grim in our expectations. I'm a strong social democrat, but removing protectionism and allowing trade between continents is not inherently a bad thing. Especially if we wanted to explore an increasingly socially and economically unified western hemisphere in the coming century.

If my friends in Europe have some very respectable environmental and product quality concerns, can't ordinances to ensure these be passed in each individual nation?

Read what i've just written.

And as for transatlantic trade, newsflash: It's already there.

[snuggans]

And as for transatlantic trade, newsflash: It's already there.

that's like saying a sapling is there when you could have a strong oak. there are a lot of things that arent being traded, gas being one of the most important ones. and it'll particularly relieve the EU from being pressured by the warmongering Russian gov who also sell the EU gas, which gives them leverage in diplomatic negotiations over you.

[Aanker]

Of course there should be a free trade treaty between the EU and the U.S. People are too quick to condemn their friends (like the U.S., one of the few other major democratic nations in the world that shares most of our values and principles) and excuse their enemies (Russia - just lol - and China). A transatlantic free trade treaty sends a powerful signal to the world: that free democracies intend to win the battle over the most lucrative trade and business, and that the EU and U.S. are more alike than different. Something a few chronic America critics could learn.

A final ambition would be to establish a 'pan-democratic' free trade zone, where not only workers' rights are respected, but people can also live their lives and express their concerns without fear of being prosecuted or silenced. The benefits of entering into such a trade zone could then compel other countries to reform and strive for democratization, if not from the top at least from the bottom (akin to how the Maidan movement to join the EU through the reformation of Ukraine and the rejection of their authoritarian neighbour sprung into being).

[Akrotatos]

What workers' rights are you talking about Aanker? The right to paid maternity leave that the majority of US workers does not have for example? What democracy are you talking about? EU keeps proving how democratic it is every day, just take a look at the news.

And I do hope that the legal bribing of US senators ("lobying") is not a shared value with EU. Are we really this anxious to harmonize our laws with a nation run by corporate interests. We are already run by banking interests, no reason to go a step further.

[Aanker]

Haha I knew there would be a conspiracy theory ramble response.

What workers' rights are you talking about Aanker? The right to paid maternity leave that the majority of US workers does not have for example?

I think you are confusing my 2nd paragraph with the 1st, so let's re-read them okay?

What democracy are you talking about? EU keeps proving how democratic it is every day, just take a look at the news.

You are making up your own fantasy conlusions, which unfortunately do not agree with the vast majority of democracy measuring indexes.

And I do hope that the legal bribing of US senators ("lobying") is not a shared value with EU.

There is lobbying in the EU.

Are we really this anxious to harmonize our laws with a nation run by corporate interests.

Citation needed. And, again, at least the entiety of the U.S. isn't Gazprom Nation Inc.

We are already run by banking interests, no reason to go a step further.

Of course we are, that's why Tsipras was elected in Greece, or the Greeks could create this much trouble in the first place.

[Condottiere 40K]

1984
Europeans might be quite willing to sup with the United States, they may prefer a long spoon.

[Akrotatos]

Haha I knew there would be a conspiracy theory ramble response.

Ramble maybe because I didn't have much time to write my reply. Conspiracy? Hardly.

I think you are confusing my 2nd paragraph with the 1st, so let's re-read them okay?

In other words, you aknowledge that US is miles behind EU in worker rights?

You are making up your own fantasy conlusions, which unfortunately do not agree with the vast majority of democracy measuring indexes.

How democratic is EU? My country is in the process of turning into a banana-republic but let's see the rest of the EU countries. How free are they to resists EU regulations. Who makes the decisions? Not really the people.

There is lobbying in the EU.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...sels-corporate

Indeed there is. I don't think we have reached US levels with lobbies financing election campaigns etc..yet.

Citation needed. And, again, at least the entiety of the U.S. isn't Gazprom Nation Inc.

Why are you bringing up Russia? Is Russia the standard with which we should measure ourselves? Why not use China then or Iran? Hell, why not N. Korea?

http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/22/cor...22maiello.html

http://journalistsresource.org/studi...rican-politics

Here you are. In any case, it is common knowledge tha US politics and laws are heavily influenced by big corporations.

Of course we are, that's why Tsipras was elected in Greece, or the Greeks could create this much trouble in the first place.

Exactly. Already banking interests come before the voters' interests. Is trade with US not free enough already that we need to risk even more big interests sitting on top of our heads and influence our lives?