A Song of Ice and Fire Mod

[Henry of Grosmont]

Oh, my. Guys, apperently we're not done with it. Sorry, but I oppose the idea of giving everybody english based roster. It's just not fun.
Starks: Sicily.
Lannisters: England.
Tyrrels: France.
Dorne: Spain.
Baratheons Renley: Venice.
Baratheons Stannis: Portugal (mixed western - moorish troops may refer to his Free cities mercenaries).
Riverlands: Milan.
Greyjoys: Danemark. At least, we all agree on this.
Arryns: Poland, or HRE.
Mountain Clans: Scottland.
Kings Landing: Rebels. See one of my posts why.

[The_Smiling_Knight]

I'll try the Night's Watch tonight. Pretty basic as it's just black IIRC but that will give me a chance to get the hang of skinning before moving on to other more detailed skins. Or perhaps I'll just get a little ambitious and try the Lannisters.

[The_Smiling_Knight]

Oh, my. Guys, apperently we're not done with it. Sorry, but I oppose the idea of giving everybody english based roster. It's just not fun.
Starks: Sicily.
Lannisters: England.
Tyrrels: France.
Dorne: Spain.
Baratheons Renley: Venice.
Baratheons Stannis: Portugal (mixed western - moorish troops may refer to his Free cities mercenaries).
Riverlands: Milan.
Greyjoys: Danemark. At least, we all agree on this.
Arryns: Poland, or HRE.
Mountain Clans: Scottland.
Kings Landing: Rebels. See one of my posts why.

I'm fine with that but wouldn't the Starks be better suited as Scotland? Just a suggestion, doesn't matter to me really.

[Henry of Grosmont]

I'm fine with that but wouldn't the Starks be better suited as Scotland?

I think, that giving them Sicilians is better, because of strong Norman Knights. Starks are, actually, the same western units, except for few. Adding some, like 2H clansmen would be nice. And, in my opinion, Scottland goes to the Mountain clans.

[The_Smiling_Knight]

Has anyone tried to contact The Citadel staff to see if we can use the Heraldry contained there?

[TurnLeft]

No no no... do not think of it in terms of a Westeros: M2TW faction comparison. There is no need for this argument.

As I've said before we can mix + match without any problems and this is ESSENTIAL to Westeros because of the variety available. There will be core units to each faction as we all know.

We are concerned with CULTURE assignments, not military unit assignments to each faction. Culture assignments comes with the scripting and believe me it is easily solved without any need for debate.

There is nothing in this game to say we cannot use a reskinned french pikeman in the dornish faction with a dornish accent, built from dornish barracks. From a skin perspective: give him a tan, replace the mail with copper scales and add a bit more colour to the fabric.

[The_Smiling_Knight]

I think, that giving them Sicilians is better, because of strong Norman Knights. Starks are, actually, the same western units, except for few. Adding some, like 2H clansmen would be nice. And, in my opinion, Scottland goes to the Mountain clans.

Works for me, but we definitely need to have some consensus. Everybody has to compromise a bit. I'll leave that to whomever is in charge. I'd just like to see this thing really happen.

Are we using a modified version of the W:TW map or creating a new one from scratch?

[Henry of Grosmont]

I guess, Marcus Brutus is in charge, so we need him, as a leader, to decide.

[Marcus Brutus]

TurnLeft has teh right idea. From this point on until the end of discussion disregard the units of a faction Really. We need to base our decision on, and I've already said this, culture. I've read the series twice, I'm no researcher. That's what some of you guys are for. I need people to decide which culture each faction belongs to. Cultures are hardcoded, units are not. Therefore the decision must but made based on culture. Another post to follow.

[Marcus Brutus]

Okay, here is the WIP faction list:
Stark
Lannister
Tyrell
Tully
Arryn
Martell
Greyjoy
Baratheon/Renly
Baratheon/Stannis
Nights Watch
Wildlings
Frey
Florent
Bolton


Possible inclusions:
King's Landing
Karstark
Targaryen (historical battle purposes)

I'm unpacking the games files atm, once they've been unpacked I'll be able to post the culture groups of M2 and as can assign from there. Feel free to post your opinions and knowledge beforehand, though.

[The_Smiling_Knight]

Has a concrete determination been made as to which House will have which units?

[Marcus Brutus]

No. Disregard that. This needs to be done first, because the map cannot be ported to M2 without setting factions. Starting a what-house-gets-what-units discussion will get us nowhere, fast. Let's focus on this first.

[Henry of Grosmont]

I've seen somewhere, that you can change the religion of a faction. So, there is no problem with Greyjoys (The Drowning God). We can give them orthodox. If Dorne is Spain based, it's fine, because the're Seven Gods believers. We could have a problem with Starks and their Old Gods.
@Marcus. So, we won't include Mountain clans?
@The_Smiling_Knight. I'll post soon unique units for each faction, and that's all we need, because we can move units the way we want.

[Marcus Brutus]

Mountain Clans will either be mercenaries to Lannister, or Rebels. They don't hold any sort of city/castle that's on the map, and would only hold one settlement at best. Not worth the inclusion as their own faction.

[Henry of Grosmont]

So, faction list is closed. Good.
Suggestion: Maybe we'll give Starks catholic culture to avoid possible problems.

[The_Smiling_Knight]

@The_Smiling_Knight. I'll post soon unique units for each faction, and that's all we need, because we can move units the way we want.

Cool. I'll go home and unpack the game and try to locate the banners, shields, etc, etc. To get started on the Night's Watch or the Lannisters.

[Marcus Brutus]

Okay, files unpacked. Here are our factions:
Stark
Lannister
Tyrell
Tully
Arryn
Martell
Greyjoy
Baratheon/Renly
Baratheon/Stannis
Nights Watch
Wildlings
Frey
Florent
Bolton


Possible inclusions:
King's Landing
Karstark
Targaryen (historical battle purposes)


And here are our culture:
Northern European:
England, France, Holy Roman Empire, Scotland, Denmark, Normans, Saxons

Southern European:
Spain, Venice, Sicily, Milan, Portugal, Papal States, Slave

Eastern European:
Hungary, Poland, Russia

Greek:
Byzantine Empire

Middle East:
Mongols, Timurid, Moor, Egypt, Turks

Mesoamerican:
Aztec

So we have 24 factions premade and 17 factions to place in for the first release. Discuss.

[Henry of Grosmont]

If I understand it right?
Let's see:
Stark - Normans.
Bolton - Saxons.
Greyjoy - Danemark.
Lannister - England.
Arryn - HRE.
Frey - Poland.
Tully - Hungary.
Tyrell - France. To make a difference between them and Martell.
Florent - Milan.
Baratheon/Renley - Venice.
Baratheon/Stannis - Portugal.
Martell - Spain.
Night Watch - Byzantine.
Wildlings - Aztec.

Karstark - Scottland.
Kings Landing - Slave.
Targaryen - here, I had a problem. Sicily, maybe?

[Marcus Brutus]

Okay, what are your thoughts on including Karstark? yes/no? And why make King's landing rebel when we could make them their own faction?

[Werthead]

Hmm, about the Westeros banners. There are 'free banners' that anyone can use of the main houses on the site. As I understand it, most of the 200+ houses whose banners only appear on the Westeros site and nowhere else (i.e. they are exclusive to that site, thanks to GRRM give descriptions of the banners to the Westeros admins and approving the results) cannot be used without their permission. However, most of these are minor houses who are not large enough to warrant becoming a faction in the game, so it's not an issue. Since all of the houses we are talking about are either the major ones or the ones who appear in the books' appendices, I don't think there's an issue with using them, but I will check further.

If you mean using the images themselves, because they are excellent and because it would save time on the mod team having to do them, then definitely Ran and probably George would have to be asked. I'll PM Ran and see what he thinks.

As for the title: A Clash of Kings would be good, or indeed the other obvious one I left out (A Song of Ice and Fire: Total War), but Game of Thrones seems to be the one that jumps out the most at me. Maybe put it to a vote?