A Song of Ice and Fire Mod

[Razzia]

Once you guys knock out the campaign map with changed names for cities, you should post that mod. I would love to play MTW on the SoIaF world map and cities even if it is just a reorginization of the factions already present on a new map.

[Werthead]

Hi there. I'm a mod on the semi-official GRRM website at Westeros.org, and we were talking about the mod there a few weeks ago (K995 was actually chiming in over there with ideas before). Good to see some professionals are working on the idea, in some cases again. We're fans of the books and, unfortunately, in my case I have no programming or modelling skills. However, I can tell you that if you do want to include the Free Cities at least in the game, a map of them will appear when the fifth novel is published (probably in the late summer/early autumn of 2007) and there will then be a canonical map of the western-most part of the eastern continent (basically covering Dany's journeys, I believe) in The World of Ice and Fire sourcebook, which will be out in early 2008. Existing world maps are fan-created based on the books and the one linked earlier (although pretty good) in the thread has been invalidated by A Feast for Crows.

One query we had was the necessity of reskinning units. Because most of the medieval-level units already in Medieval 2 could be reused in the mod with no modifications to them, it was felt this would immensely speed up development time. If we can also use the existing map from the abandoned Rome project, than this would mean a lot more time could be spent on the details before going back later on and doing remodelling and reskinning to bring the game closer to the image of Westeros. However, certainly putting new flags with the heraldry of Westeros on them is a must.

I put together a possible province map on the logic of 10-12 provinces per faction (more for the North, due to its size, but their provinces are less fertile), with a list of provinces here. Hope that will be of some use. We also have a ton of sayings from the books for use on the loading screens, but since these came from someone who'd been contributing to the Rome version of the mod, I'm guessing you guys have access to those already?

Possible ideas for campaign types:

War of the Five Kings
Factions start off as they are in the books and have to fight from the get-go. This seems the most straightforward to do (as we have all the information at hand, since the war is effectively over by the end of AFFC), although it does mean leaving out the Targaryens. There are also headaches in this design: would Stannis control just Dragonstone or the Stormlands as well? Would the Stormlands and the Reach be unified as one faction under Renly (and wouldn't this make them ridiculously over-powered)? One thing I am keen on is that Ned's death should be the catalyst for the conflict (Stannis sends his letters denouncing Joffrey and Renly claims the throne within a few weeks of this event as well, so the combined effect of all three would bring about the war), so the game would start with Robb as King in the North, either before or just after having liberated Riverrun.

War in the Riverlands
Using an enhanced and 'blown-up' map of the Riverlands, this focuses on the war in the Riverlands between the Tullys, Lannisters and Starks, with possible (optional) intervention from the Greyjoys and Arryns. This is loosely based on the Storm of Swords expansion to the Game of Thrones board game (itself full of useful ideas for the mod, as is the RPG). This would be a possible future mod for the mod, as it were, and not a priority for first release. This iteration of the game could use the lesser houses and invoke the vassal system as some have suggested.

Westeros: Total War
Throwing canon out of the window, this game type basically has each faction starting with three provinces and having to expand, as in vanilla Medieval 2 or Rome. Thus, a rapidly-expanding Baratheon player could snatch territory in the Reach or from the Crownlands before a slow-moving Tyrell player reached there, or a fast-moving Tyrell player could overrun half of Dorne before the Martells could expand.

Future 'mods of the mod' could feature elements such as the War of the Usurper, the Blackfyre Rebellion, War of the Ninepenny Kings, the Dance of Dragons etc. We have enough information now to have the Battle of Redgrass Field (from the Blackfyre Rebellion) as a historical battle, possibly the Trident as well.

Hope some of that helps!

[Henry of Grosmont]

Hi there. I'm a mod on the semi-official GRRM website at Westeros.org, and we were talking about the mod there a few weeks ago (K995 was actually chiming in over there with ideas before). Good to see some professionals are working on the idea, in some cases again. We're fans of the books and, unfortunately, in my case I have no programming or modelling skills. However, I can tell you that if you do want to include the Free Cities at least in the game, a map of them will appear when the fifth novel is published (probably in the late summer/early autumn of 2007) and there will then be a canonical map of the western-most part of the eastern continent (basically covering Dany's journeys, I believe) in The World of Ice and Fire sourcebook, which will be out in early 2008. Existing world maps are fan-created based on the books and the one linked earlier (although pretty good) in the thread has been invalidated by A Feast for Crows.

One query we had was the necessity of reskinning units. Because most of the medieval-level units already in Medieval 2 could be reused in the mod with no modifications to them, it was felt this would immensely speed up development time. If we can also use the existing map from the abandoned Rome project, than this would mean a lot more time could be spent on the details before going back later on and doing remodelling and reskinning to bring the game closer to the image of Westeros. However, certainly putting new flags with the heraldry of Westeros on them is a must.

I put together a possible province map on the logic of 10-12 provinces per faction (more for the North, due to its size, but their provinces are less fertile), with a list of provinces here. Hope that will be of some use. We also have a ton of sayings from the books for use on the loading screens, but since these came from someone who'd been contributing to the Rome version of the mod, I'm guessing you guys have access to those already?

Possible ideas for campaign types:

War of the Five Kings
Factions start off as they are in the books and have to fight from the get-go. This seems the most straightforward to do (as we have all the information at hand, since the war is effectively over by the end of AFFC), although it does mean leaving out the Targaryens. There are also headaches in this design: would Stannis control just Dragonstone or the Stormlands as well? Would the Stormlands and the Reach be unified as one faction under Renly (and wouldn't this make them ridiculously over-powered)? One thing I am keen on is that Ned's death should be the catalyst for the conflict (Stannis sends his letters denouncing Joffrey and Renly claims the throne within a few weeks of this event as well, so the combined effect of all three would bring about the war), so the game would start with Robb as King in the North, either before or just after having liberated Riverrun.

War in the Riverlands
Using an enhanced and 'blown-up' map of the Riverlands, this focuses on the war in the Riverlands between the Tullys, Lannisters and Starks, with possible (optional) intervention from the Greyjoys and Arryns. This is loosely based on the Storm of Swords expansion to the Game of Thrones board game (itself full of useful ideas for the mod, as is the RPG). This would be a possible future mod for the mod, as it were, and not a priority for first release. This iteration of the game could use the lesser houses and invoke the vassal system as some have suggested.

Westeros: Total War
Throwing canon out of the window, this game type basically has each faction starting with three provinces and having to expand, as in vanilla Medieval 2 or Rome. Thus, a rapidly-expanding Baratheon player could snatch territory in the Reach or from the Crownlands before a slow-moving Tyrell player reached there, or a fast-moving Tyrell player could overrun half of Dorne before the Martells could expand.

Future 'mods of the mod' could feature elements such as the War of the Usurper, the Blackfyre Rebellion, War of the Ninepenny Kings, the Dance of Dragons etc. We have enough information now to have the Battle of Redgrass Field (from the Blackfyre Rebellion) as a historical battle, possibly the Trident as well.

Hope some of that helps!

Hi. Good to see you here. Westeros.org is a great site . Marcus is on his Holydays, so, I'm trying to answer to as many questions as I can.
First. About Free Cities. I think, later we can include them, after "The World is Round" MIITW event.
Some reskininnig has to be done. Period. The idea of Tyrrel's banner above french fleurs de lys does not attract me, and I'm sure anybody else either.
Second. Thanks for the map and list, I think it's very useful.
Third. What period? We'll have to wait for Marcus, because I can't deside alone, he brought this idea back to life, after 2 weeks of talking agony and deadly silence (and yes, I was waiting for my computer).
In my opinion, we can start as Westeros TW (aka War of Seven Kingdoms, or watever its name), and then try to include new features, campaigns.
Our target now is to start modding as soon as possible.
Thanks again for showing up, and thanks everybody for your support. I hope, that nothing interferes my life, because it's time for every Song of Ice and Fire fan to, actually, play it. We'll post updates the moment we have something to post, or just to show you, that we're alive. I guess, when Marcus returns, we'll look for more people. Cheers

[ThePaleHorseman]

Aside from the Norvoshi Queensguard bearing a strong resemblance to Varangian Guardsmen what basis is there for assigning the Byzantine Roster to Dorne?

The Byzantine roster is heavy with light swordsmen and archers, whereas Dorne is known for its spearmen. Given that the Spanish roster contains more spearmen, two pike units, and two javelin units and given the fact that Dorne does have true Western Knights (e.g. Ser Deziel Dalt, Ser Symon Santagar and House Dayne), Spain would appear to be a more accurate choice.

It is also widely agreed upon that Spain is the Cultural Model for Dorne.

[Henry of Grosmont]

Aside from the Norvoshi Queensguard bearing a strong resemblance to Varangian Guardsmen what basis is there for assigning the Byzantine Roster to Dorne?

The Byzantine roster is heavy with light swordsmen and archers, whereas Dorne is known for its spearmen. Given that the Spanish roster contains more spearmen, two pike units, and two javelin units and given the fact that Dorne does have true Western Knights (e.g. Ser Deziel Dalt, Ser Symon Santagar and House Dayne), Spain would appear to be a more accurate choice..

Really? Dornish had different roots.
Houses, like Dayne are heavily influenced by Northern neighbors. Latinkon would fit good.
But if it seems that Spain is more appropriate, fine. Whatever does it best. The problems with Spain:
1.Good heavy cavalry late in the game - Dorne isn't known for one.
2.Byzantine roster has more good light troops, which, in my opinion, is best for Dorne, assuming the'll get best Pikemen unit and JHI. To give them good heavy cavalry is to make them invincible.
Again, whatever is best.

It is also widely agreed upon that Spain is the Cultural Model for Dorne.

Sorry, I have no idea about it. Agreed by who?

[ThePaleHorseman]

My post may have sounded more critical than intended, if so my apologies.

Here's a thread from westeros.org:
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...pic=10945&st=0

I'll look back and search for some others.

Regardless of which M2:TW faction is chosen as a base roster for any given Westerosi faction, units will have to be added and subtracted from the M2:TW roster. Some, but not all, of the Knights could be removed from the Spanish to reflect the Dornish lack of heavy cavalry. Another option would be to simply make the Knight units cost more for the Dornish than they do for other factions, i.e. Feudal Knights may cost 720/250 for the Lannisters/Westerlands but cost 900/325 for the Martells/Dorne. Given that Dorne is less populous and less well-off economically, that would probably sufficiently discourage players from amassing too much heavy cavalry and making Dorne too strong.

[Marcus Brutus]

Ah. Glad I caught this when I did. When we choose M2 factions to represent Westeros factions, it will be based on culture not the roster list. We can move the units to any faction we like, but we cant however change the cultures of the factions, last I checked. Perhaps we can now, but it'd be safer to plan as if we couldn't. I think we may be able to add more cultures if needed, though. Now I'm not sure what factions are grouped into what cultures yet, as i havent unpacked my files, but I'm sure it could be found out. The reason we're basing our choices on culture is because it's likely we wont get to voices and portraits before the first release, and at least this way, say Stark won't sound like a Moor, which may be better suited to the Martells? I don't know, I'm not a researcher. But that's my point, anyways.

[The_Smiling_Knight]

Long time lurker here. I've been eyeing this thread very closely as I'm a huge fan of ASoIaF. The mod sounds great and I'd like to offer my services.

The catch? I know nothing about modding with the exception of little things like changing the desc_strat to unlock factions or make minor changes.

The fix for the catch? I have quite a lot of free time (attempting to save money) in the evenings (4 hours per night minimum, longer on weekends) to learn whatever task might be required of me.

As long as someone can point me in the direction of online tutorials or whatnot and be available for questions if something is not clear, then I am more than willing to dedicate my time and effort to this enterprise.

A mod of ASoIaF for M:TWII just makes too much sense to not happen. I'll do my part to keep it from slipping into obscurity.

So I'll leave it to those in charge to decide what needs to be done and take me up on the offer if they wish.

[TurnLeft]

As long as someone can point me in the direction of online tutorials or whatnot and be available for questions if something is not clear, then I am more than willing to dedicate my time and effort to this enterprise.

A mod of ASoIaF for M:TWII just makes too much sense to not happen. I'll do my part to keep it from slipping into obscurity.

So I'll leave it to those in charge to decide what needs to be done and take me up on the offer if they wish.

Photoshop familiarity?

There will be a lot of small editing at first to get the proper heraldry on banners, shields, tunics, etc. I'm starting to take a look at that today, but come January 2nd time will be limited.

[The_Smiling_Knight]

I have used photoshop quite a bit, but not for anything like this. That said, I can certainly learn what needs to be learned. Please feel free to key me into what types of things you'd need assistance with in regards to banners, shields, tunics, etc.

Has anyone with the necessary coding skills stepped up to help? I don't have the skill with coding, but again I would be willing to learn.

[Dagda]

I didn't exactly understand what you were asking about, so, I'll answer on both.
1. Greyjoys are getting danish units, and they're quiet unique, at least in the beginning. Plus, they may get some bonuses, it's uncertain now.
2. Why Berdiche Axemen? Well, Northmen in Song of Ice and Fire aren't "vikingish", Ironmen are, that's why they have danish roster. Varangian Guards are going to Martells. Hence Berdiche Axemen with big axes (like in the book) and masks, which I'm planning to change (masks and armour) to Ramsey Bolton's, if you know, what I mean? :wink:

Like I mentioned before, the Northmen were said to be using 2handed greatswords at multiple parts ofthe book, including their leaders. Scottish Nobles and Forlorn Hope seem to be a perfect fit for the North.

For Dhorne, I guess Spanish works with toned down heavy cav. But they were known for their spears in the books and the Noble Pikemen unit remeinds of Prince Oberyn.

[Werthead]

GRRM said some time ago that the Dornish are based somewhat on the Spanish: an isolated peninsular which was consumed with bitter in-fighting for many years before being unified by two powerful monarchs (Nymeria of the Rhoyne and Mors Martell can be said to be analogues in function if not personality of Isabella and Ferdinand) and became more of a force in its own right. There are many differences, however. Dorne has a pretty awful, rocky and cliff-strewn coast, with no good harbourage at all between Starfall and Sunspear (roughly 1200 miles of coastline), so is not a naval power at all, unlike medieval Spain. The Reach - which is loosely based on France - inherits the naval tradition from Spain, via the Redwyne Fleet of the Arbor and the vital port of Oldtown.

A brief thought on which settlements start as castles and which as cities: King's Landing, Oldtown, Lannisport, Gulltown and White Harbour are the only true cities of Westeros, so should be so in the game. I understand it is impossible to have cities or castles right up against border provinces, which is a problem with Casterly Rock and Lannisport. They seem to be separated by a reasonable distance on the maps (say ten miles or so), but in the game it seems we would have to put them further away in neighbouring provinces. It would be good if we could combine the two, but Casterly Rock is repeatedly called one of the strongest castles in the land and Lannisport is the third-largest city, so having them seperate is more desirable. This would work well in the game having the two as close as possible, with the Rock churning out military units and Lannisport nearby providing economic power. The only other definite castles I think are Storm's End, Harrenhal, the Eyrie and the Twins. Arguments could be made on whether Winterfell, with the large winter town surrounding it, and Sunspear with the Shadow City under its towering bulk, and Pyke with Lordsport next to it, should be castles or cities.

Also, a thought on the name. I know the previous version was called Westeros: Total War, but discussion on the Westeros forum suggested calling it A Game of Thrones: Total War. The reasoning for this was twofold:

1) More immediate identification between the books and the game. Casual readers will remember the name A Game of Thrones but probably not 'Westeros', especially since 'Westeros' does not enter common use until the second and third books (in AGoT it's interesting that 'Seven Kingdoms' and 'Sunset Lands' are used interchangeably and 'Westeros' only surfaces a few times).

2) It is traditional for products based on ASoIaF to follow the books in their naming conventions. So the first product is AGoT, the first expansion is ACoK and so forth. The board game and RPG both use this convention and the CCG uses a derivation of it. Of course, we can be more more original in this project if we want.

3) More appealing to those unfamiliar with the books. 'A Game of Thrones' sounds cool. 'Westeros' doesn't really reach out and grab the casual reader as much.

Of course, if people are set on Westeros as the title, then fair enough, but I thought it was a point worth raising.

[Marcus Brutus]

Not a bad idea, but if this is set after Robert's death, wouldn't A Clash of Kings be more appropriate?

[The_Smiling_Knight]

Not to be a pain, but is this going forward? As I said I will help out if someone (whoever is in charge) gives an idea of what needs to be done. I'll have to learn whatever it is that needs doing, but as I said, I have a fair amount of free time in the evenings and on weekends.

[TurnLeft]

Looks like we've finally started some agreements

I'm working on reskinning some units as I post this. Crossing my fingers that it all looks halfway decent.

Smiling Knight, if you read here: http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=75726
You can convert the m2tw .texture files into .dds files. Get the nvidia plugin for photoshop to open .dds files http://developer.nvidia.com/object/p...s_plugins.html and then just go nuts .

I'm working on Iron Island skins now, so for now just reskinning tunics and shields to Greyjoy/other major house colours with sigils on shields and such. How about starting work on another region if want?

[EasyE]

Turnleft, I am glad that you are once again working on this mod. I was very scared after the last one went into hibernation that you had given up on this mod. I remember giving you many pictures and info. to work with on the last one and hope to be of help on this mod as well. Anyway yeah I've always enjoyed your units for the Iron Islands, but I must say this time, with the new way that the units appear with their tunics and shields designs, I think, adding the symbol onto the shields this time, should not happen. Only on the tunics, coats, armor and cloaks, and even then small like they currently are in the game. I would say only Generals, Kings, Gold Coats, Red Coats, Night Watch should have cloaks and only Generals and Kings should have the symbol placed on the cloaks. I look forward to seeing your new stuff.

[The_Smiling_Knight]

Looks like we've finally started some agreements

I'm working on reskinning some units as I post this. Crossing my fingers that it all looks halfway decent.

Smiling Knight, if you read here: http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=75726
You can convert the m2tw .texture files into .dds files. Get the nvidia plugin for photoshop to open .dds files http://developer.nvidia.com/object/p...s_plugins.html and then just go nuts .

I'm working on Iron Island skins now, so for now just reskinning tunics and shields to Greyjoy/other major house colours with sigils on shields and such. How about starting work on another region if want?

Ok, I'll give it a shot tonight and this weekend. Having never skinned before, I cannot say how well it will go but I will certainly try. So what is the "official" list of the major Houses we are going to use and which units in those Houses?

Also, is there consensus on using the map created for the old Westeros mod?

[Henry of Grosmont]

Wow. Action's here. Good. Spanish roster for Dorne. My fault before. Byzantine would be a problem because of the culture. I suggest to replace some good infantry unit with Varangian Guards. Btw, I'll start skinning this Saturday. I have a question. Once I'm done with reskinning, replacing existing file with the new one is enough?
@TurnLeft, if you're working on Greyjoys, I'll start with Starks or my favorite Dorne.
@The_Smiling_Knight. I posted factions and units before. We already replaced Dornish. If you all guys will look again, and find something to change, then let's do it. We have to agree, and close the "faction, unit" discussion now.

[ThePaleHorseman]

What is our official Faction List?


Most of these factions are actually most similar to either the French Roster or the English Roster with a couple of additions/deletions.

House Martell/Dorne - base Spanish roster
House Tyrell/The Reach - base French Roster
House Arryn/The Vale - base English Roster
House Lannister/Westerlands - base English Roster (minus Longbow units, more emphasis on Crossbow)
House Tully/Riverlands - base English Roster (needs Longbows)
House Greyjoy/Iron Islands - base Danish Roster
House Stark/Northlands - base English Roster (needs longbows, Zweihanders)
House Baratheon/Narrow Sea - base French Roster
House Baratheon/Stormlands - base French Roster
House Baratheon-Lannister/Crownlands - base French Roster
The Night's Watch (Forlorn Hope [Black Brothers] and Sherwood Archers [Rangers] belong here)

[TurnLeft]

Ehh.... not necessarily "spanish" roster for dorne, but spanish culture model. Units can be moved back and forth from each faction in pieces to support the Westeros factions. There is no problem whatsoever in copying the varangian guard textures and modifying them to a Dornish skin, then doing the same with a Moorish or Egyptian spearman unit.

For Example: Stark/Northmen: Pikemen (flemish mercenary base), crossbowmen (any European faction besides England), Hornwood Longbowmen (English base), heavy cav (Mailed knights), armoured swordsmen (English base), 2-handers (any of the german/scot units), etc. etc. It is NOT limited to 1 faction direct reskins. Moving units between factions and using them on multiple factions is a relatively easy task.

For now do only the obvious units. Say, chivalric knights with Highgarden roses all over them (Or huscarls -> Greyjoy as I am). We have a good unit roster that is being copied from buried forums. Once this is in place and our petition for our own forum is approved we can do specifics and post progress reports.