The mountains and hills of the DotS map were generated from satellite data so are all more or less proportional to their actual sizes. The mountains might look small to you but compared to other mountains in the game they are relatively high.
I'll probably try to make that region we're talking about a little greener.
Last edited by Space_Ed; May 06, 2015 at 05:35 AM.
Please could you draw me a map showing the regions of influence and control of the factions in our map in Africa in 1080? What would be even better is if you tell me which factions or groups controlled which settlements/forts along the river Nile all the way to Ethiopia. I can't make those changes myself but we have other team members who can.
I am afraid i dont made deep researches on high medieval Nubia/Ethiopia yet, so i am not the perfect man for that job. But atleast i can offer you this:
Rough estimation of Makurias extension:
The Nobatia refers to the most northern province of the kingdom, annexed by Makuria in the early Medieval age and now ruled by an eparch. Dotawo refers to the kingdom of Dotawo, which was thought to be a vasall-breakaway of Makuria after its fell, but recent theories say that Dotawo was just the Old Nubian name for Makuria.
The Dongola (Also the capital of Makuria) probably refers to the Arab-Nubian kingdom of Dongola which was the sucessor of Makuria in that area. In the very end it says Sennar, referring to the Sultanate of Sennar which defeated the kingdom of Alodia (Here Aloa) in 1504.
The red circled areas refer to the extension of the so called X-Culture, which existed in Attila-timeframe.
Here is a more detailed map of Alodia i made recently:
I based it on a map in Mohi Zarrougs book "The kingdom of Alwa". This map here also contains the most important cities of that area: Pakhoras (Today known as Faras) as the former capital of Nobatia and seat of the bishop of Nobatia, Dongola as the capital of Makuria, Soba as the capital of Alodia and Aksum as the capital of the former Aksumite empire. The problem is that we have very little information about Ethiopia after Aksum got destroyed by queen Gudit and if i will find a better candidate for a city in Ethiopia then Aksum i will rework the map.
Something you cant see one the map are the so called five Bedscha kingdoms named Quata, Bazin, Baklin, Jarin and Nakis. They were located right south of the south-eastern edge of Alodia, in the area of modern north Eritrea. Sadly, i also dont know much about them either, only that they mixed with the indigenous Tigre population and probably adopted their Christian religion aswell. I plan to learn more about them in the future though.
Last edited by LinusLinothorax; May 06, 2015 at 02:45 PM.
Once I've verified that you're right I'll try to make the changes so that the Fatimids' garrisons are no further south than that in 1080. I think the potential problem is that the Fatimid AI might commit to invading Sudan etc instead of being interested in the 'Holy Land'.
1. A possibility I think. Another problem is that Makuria and the Fatimids worked well together and were more like close allies than enemies as rebels would make them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Makuria "Egypt and Makuria developed close and peaceful relations when Egypt was ruled by the Fatimids. The Shi'ite Fatimids had few allies in the Muslim world, and they turned to the southern Christians as allies.[11] Fatimid power also depended upon the slaves provided by Makuria, who were used to man the Fatimid army. Trade between the two states flourished: Egypt sent wheat, wine, and linen south while Makuria exported ivory, cattle, ostrich feathers, and slaves. Relations with Egypt soured when the Ayyubids came to power in 1171. " Based on this it makes more sense to have Makuria as part of the Fatimid empire but represent the Makurians and script it so that those areas are prone to rebellions if you don't treat them well when playing as the Fatimids.
2. You mean totally re-do the entire map just for this? No way. Do you have any idea how many hours of my life I've put into that map? I cannot understate how unreasonable that suggestion is.
3. Impossible because there's a limit on the number of factions and the list was already decided a long time ago before I was on the team. It's easy to argue that Makuria isn't important enough to replace any of the current ones.
Last edited by Space_Ed; May 07, 2015 at 03:04 PM.
Of the options available when considering that wikipedia article it seems the best option is to have Makuria as part of the Fatimids. Especially as apparently Makurians fought in Fatimid armies. Making those areas prone to rebellions if not treated well with low taxes etc seems like the most accurate way of depicting the situation.
I know all of this, i have read more then just Wikipedia. But does it make a kingdom a vasall to an other just because it had good relations and traded with it? Why are the Kievan Rus no vasalls of the Roman empire then?
These words here are the one and simple truth: Making Makuria a vasall of the Fatimids is unhistorical. Period. Just script the Fatimids to make them more agressive toward Syria. That would be the best and only way if you wont add Makuria because "it was not important enough".
Last edited by LinusLinothorax; May 07, 2015 at 03:34 PM.
What did you do to the coasts? I smoothed them over 2 years ago........
They also supplied troops.
Making this mod is about making compromises. There are limits to what can be achieved. If you wanted to make a Makuria faction which faction would you take out of the game? If we took out Lithuania there'd be a lot of very disappointed Lithuanian fans. Once we had a war with an Irish American because he was devastatingly offended that we hadn't made an Irish faction.
It does appear that making Makuria part of the Fatimids is closer to the actual history than making them rebels because making them rebels makes the Fatimids at war with Makuria. Makuria at war with the Fatimids is much less historically accurate.
These words here are the one and simple truth: Making Makuria at war with the Fatimids is unhistorical. Period.
Anyway the choice of the factions was taken before I was part of the team and I took no part in deciding which people ended up in the game as factions. There are many many different possible factions across the whole map and it's impossible to make everyone happy.
Last edited by Space_Ed; May 07, 2015 at 05:34 PM.
That's a before shot at the top and an after shot at the bottom.
Have you made any changes to map_heights since 17/03/2013 SpaceEd?
I'll upload my files here in abit, I just woke up and feel like poo, desperately in need of some caffeine
Last edited by danny X; May 09, 2015 at 09:08 AM.
You are right, but it's a problem of the game mechanics. Scripting to make them more aggressive to a certain faction.... not gonna happen. So we are left with
a) Makuria= rebels they are always at war with "Egypt" and will get invaded immediately in 1080 (unhistorical)
b) have them part of the Egypt faction in 1080, prone to rebellion, with very little player control there (compromise)
We are going with option b)