[Ideas] Royal Scythia, Roxolani and Massagetae unit suggestion thread

[Sebidee]

Hi guys,

The next mod will be for the nomad factions, Royal Scythia, Roxolani and Massagetae. Please share any ideas you might have for units here!

[NihilNovi_SubSol]

Hey Sebidee. I've really enjoyed your unit packs so far, and I'm sure this one will be great as well. I've played the steppe factions a fair amount, and to my mind there are a few obvious gaps in their rosters that could be filled without losing their 'flavour' as factions.

I think broadly you could define each faction by their cultural enemies - Royal scythia hates hellenic factions, Massagetae has an enmity for Eastern factions, and Roxolani are hated by the other steppe tribes. I would think those traits would reflect histories of contact and conflict - so Royal scythia might have more units in the Hellenic style, but also units designed to counter hellenic tactics... Like mercenary hoplites and anti-armor axemen, and late-unlock bow cataphracts to take out phalanxes. By the same token, the Massagetae could have more Eastern or Parthian-style units reflecting contact with the Eastern world. Takabara-style foot archers with spears and shields to defend against cavalry, for instance, or Bactrian/Parthian-style infantry. Roxolani already have shock cavalry, but maybe they could also develop fast anti-cavalry spear units, or armored foot archers, to give them an edge against other steppe factions.

Also, in general I think some kind of melee/shock cavalry version of Painted Ones, with fear effect and heavy attack but light armor, would be a cool unit for flavour, and reflect the steppe tribes' terrifying reputation.

Anyways, that's enough procrastinating my term paper. I look forward to seeing how this turns out, whether my ideas help or not

[Sebidee]

Thanks Nihil, those are great ideas.

[Althon]

The one suggestion which I simply have to make are Sarmatian cataphracts for Roxolani. Sarmatians were famous for their heavy cavalry, which was even used by the Romans as their auxiliaries. It is believed that the legend of King Arthur was developed from Sarmatian legends, bough to Britain my Sarmatian auxilia who served there.

I also second Nihil's idea about adding some foreign troops to nomad roster, but would limit their numbers, since such troops would be mercenaries rather than levies from conquered territories.

Also, while CA avoided giving the nomads infantry, nomads did actually make use of it. You could give them a basic, low armor spearmen, swordsmen and archers and then make a better, more armored versions of these units for higher tier. As long as none of them are equal to elite infantry of Hellenics, Celts or Germans, it should be good (the real strength of the Nomads should always be their cavalry, with infantry being support, rather than the backbone of the army).

As for the painted ones cavalry idea, I wholly support it, but would like to point out that Nomads were known to paint their faces red, rather than their whole bodies like Celts or Germans did.

[LeicsFox]

mixed male and female low tier units, or just more female nomadic units, about 1/3 of Scythian warrior graves excavated were for women so seems sensible to reflect this diversity in the roster, if its possible.

[Sebidee]

The one suggestion which I simply have to make are Sarmatian cataphracts for Roxolani. Sarmatians were famous for their heavy cavalry, which was even used by the Romans as their auxiliaries. It is believed that the legend of King Arthur was developed from Sarmatian legends, bough to Britain my Sarmatian auxilia who served there.

Did the Sarmatians live in the area around the Roxolani? I thought they were from Royal Scythia's starting position. Edit: Actually they did, they were all over (just looked it up).

Also, while CA avoided giving the nomads infantry, nomads did actually make use of it. You could give them a basic, low armor spearmen, swordsmen and archers and then make a better, more armored versions of these units for higher tier. As long as none of them are equal to elite infantry of Hellenics, Celts or Germans, it should be good (the real strength of the Nomads should always be their cavalry, with infantry being support, rather than the backbone of the army).

Know of any unique tribes or anything that could be used as infantry? I think I could clone the Attila Agathrysian Falxmen for Royal Scythia, the Sindi and Maeoti tribes were sunservient to the Scythians too, I wonder if there are any more?

As for the painted ones cavalry idea, I wholly support it, but would like to point out that Nomads were known to paint their faces red, rather than their whole bodies like Celts or Germans did.

Yeah definitely. Axe wielding Steppe Marauders with guerilla deployment, scare and red painted faces, would be an outstanding unit.

mixed male and female low tier units, or just more female nomadic units, about 1/3 of Scythian warrior graves excavated were for women so seems sensible to reflect this diversity in the roster, if its possible.

Yeah, definitely. Could possibly do some reskins for the vanilla units, maybe something like Amazon Scouts too. Light bow cavalry with very fast horses. Any other amazon related ideas?

[Althon]

Did the Sarmatians live in the area around the Roxolani? I thought they were from Royal Scythia's starting position. Edit: Actually they did, they were all over (just looked it up).



Know of any unique tribes or anything that could be used as infantry? I think I could clone the Attila Agathrysian Falxmen for Royal Scythia, the Sindi and Maeoti tribes were sunservient to the Scythians too, I wonder if there are any more?

Here are some images of Nomad infantry that I found:



As for Amazons; I'd recomend maybe some Amazon foot archers for Royal Scythia or Amazon lance cavalry for Roxolani and Messagetae.

You could even go for a unit with both lances and bows, a type of jack of all trades, master of none unit.

[Althon]

Another image.

[Sebidee]

On Amazons. Queen Tomyris was a leader of the Massagetae a couple of hundred years before the game started and was the one who killed Cyrus the Persian emperor. Maybe an elite Amazon unit for the Massagetae themed on her could be cool.

If you were to turn the name Tomyris into a descriptive word like "Napoleonic", "Augustan" or "Elizabethan" then what would it be?

Tomyrene? I have no idea.

[Althon]

I think Tomyrene would work.

At least it rolls of the tongue well and sounds ok.

[Sebidee]

There's a unit then. Tomyrene Amazons for the Massagetae.

[Althon]

There's a unit then. Tomyrene Amazons for the Massagetae.

Awesome

Great to see other nomad factions get some Amazon love.

[LeicsFox]

seconded

[bucephalos11]

I think a decent unit of Bosphoran Greek Levied Hoplites should be included

[Sebidee]

I think a decent unit of Bosphoran Greek Levied Hoplites should be included

Of course. That's a great suggestion.

The Royal Scythians were trading partners and often allies of the Greek cities on the north coast of the black sea.

[Jay the Byzantine]

How about slightly higher numbers for steppe cavalry units? Like 80 horse archers in one cav archer unit and 70-75 in a melee cav unit instead of 60? How about elite super light cav archers?

[Sebidee]

Yes that's a good idea Jay.

We seem to be getting good stuff for Royal Scythia and Massagetae. Anyone have ideas for the Roxolani in particular?

[LeicsFox]

Roxolani:

1) were later a big ally of the Dacians, so perhaps units inspired by them
2)elite combat cav? unit, representing units that had been in Roman service (late unit)
3) originally most remote group, so perhaps some Caucasus influences

[Dude with the Food]

The Sarmatians in general were well known for being the first to use lances as the main weapon so plenty of shock cavalry too.

[Jay the Byzantine]

The wikipedia page seems to describe heavy armor:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxolani
'princes and most distinguished persons' made 'it difficult for such as have been overthrown by the charge of the enemy to regain their feet'
And this source:http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com...O\Roxolani.htm tells us they have conquered the Sythians and fought the Huns. They also tell us they weren't actually from the steppes. Heavy armor+not from steppes+contact with Greeks and Pontus seems to point to a more Hellenic flavour. Kinda justifies their Elite jav cav (if they were the ones who had it lol; don't remember ). Anyhow; they seem to be more armor and cav-focused while supplementing the infantry armies of Dacia. They don't seem to use horse archers strangely enough.

As an independent concern, please make it so cav-archers other than Sarmatian horses with 40 MD are useful Make some fast light/Vlight but medium armored(20-25) horse archers as well with good MD and price. The cost effectiveness of Sarmatians in the current roster means anything higher is useless.