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Thread: Lack Of Siege Engines

  1. #1

    Default Lack Of Siege Engines

    I really enjoy this mod , but I've noticed that I can only construct manogrels when it comes to siege equipment.Is this an aspect of the mod or did I not install the mod correctly

  2. #2

    Default Re: Lack Of Siege Engines

    Ok, I saw that this has previously been discussed but why on earth can't European factions build catapults but manogrels?

    Surely any army laying siege to a castle would use a device that threw stones at those walls, rather than exploding barrels of oil? and if such devices, such as onagers were in use at this time (well before it actually, they were used as early as the Siege of Paris by the Franks) why can't the "catapult" be given the more historical designation of "onager" and be added to the game once more?

    it doesn't make any logical sense for there not to be Onager of some kind in a Middle Age European host during a siege, but devices that would hurl exploding barrels of oil? it's ridiculous.

  3. #3
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: Lack Of Siege Engines

    Ballista and Catapults weren't that often used (to not say "not used") during the medieval period. That's why they have been removed.

    However, if you have historical sources showing that we did a mistake, don't hesitate to post them here and we can correct our mistake
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  4. #4

    Default Re: Lack Of Siege Engines

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Ballista and Catapults weren't that often used (to not say "not used") during the medieval period. That's why they have been removed.

    However, if you have historical sources showing that we did a mistake, don't hesitate to post them here and we can correct our mistake
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_o...80%9386)#Siege
    If you read the article it mentions that the Danes had access to siege equipment, such as onagers and catapults. Now if they had access to such weapons as early as then, it stands to reason that the Danes themselves copied the production of such engines from the Franks themselves. So wouldn't it stand to reason that Siege Engines such as Onagers would be used in the armies of the later period? they were certainly not unheard of (as you said yourself) in sieges all throughout the period, so why remove something that was a staple of Middle Ages Siege warfare?

    And if that is not enough to convince you, then how hard would it be to release a sub-mod of some kind giving access to Siege weapons? A commonly forgotten fact about the Total War series is that it is entirely historically accurate(or at least it's supposed to be ) up until the point you jump into a campaign. After that start date at turn 1, it becomes Alternate History as determined by the player, with the start year being the point of divergence for that Alternate History.I hope I convinced you

  5. #5

    Default Re: Lack Of Siege Engines

    We have this information from Ichon who usually is not wrong.^^

    This siege was 250 years before our mod starts... Perhaps those catapults just werent good enough to erase larger walls anymore? That's atleast the reason why the Trebuchet was developed right...
    I mean it shouldn't be that hard to readd it but is it really worth it? If it's gonna be really bad and you won't use it anyways?

  6. #6
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: Lack Of Siege Engines

    Onagers during the siege of Paris by the Norses were used by both sides but not efficiensly. They were replaced later by mangomels and trebuchets which were more efficients. Ballistas were mostly used by the French and were introduced in England during the siege of Dover in 1270 AD. Note that a specific type of them, named springald, was usually used for settlement defense. So, I'm not convinced it's worth to get them back in the game.

    Beside the technical part, you also have to take the economic part in account. All siege engines were expensives and required specific technical building skills. They were made on the place where the siege took place. What's the point of wasting money in a ineffective weapon when you can get a much better one?
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  7. #7

    Default Re: Lack Of Siege Engines

    yeah, i often use spy to take a settlement, until bombard is build able
    such a dirty tactic

  8. #8

    Default Re: Lack Of Siege Engines

    Well if that's the case can you at the very least make the option of siege engines available to those who want it? like a sub-mod allowing their construction. like I said all of total war is Alternate History that is determined by the player the second you start your campaign

  9. #9
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: Lack Of Siege Engines

    We'll see what we can do but don't expect something ready in a short term period.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  10. #10

    Default Re: Lack Of Siege Engines

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaygontex View Post
    Well if that's the case can you at the very least make the option of siege engines available to those who want it? like a sub-mod allowing their construction. like I said all of total war is Alternate History that is determined by the player the second you start your campaign
    Simply go to your SSHIP "data" folder and open "export_descr_buildings" with the notepad. Search for "building siege" and delete "and event_counter first_rudder 1" behind ..

    recruit_pool "NE Trebuchet" 1 0.15 2 0 requires factions { england, scotland, france, hre, denmark, spain, aragon, portugal, pisa, venice, papal_states, sicily, norway, jerusalem, teutonic_order, } and event_counter first_rudder 1
    it must be look like this ...
    recruit_pool "NE Trebuchet" 1 0.15 2 0 requires factions { england, scotland, france, hre, denmark, spain, aragon, portugal, pisa, venice, papal_states, sicily, norway, jerusalem, teutonic_order, }
    do the same for the castle sieges too ... "building castle_siege"

    save the file, but make sure you have maked a copy from "export_descr_buildings" before!

    ... now enjoy your siege engines

    P.S. this should be also save game compatible
    The night was so black, as we planned to attack!

    2D Artwork - Coder

  11. #11

    Default Re: Lack Of Siege Engines

    "After that start date at turn 1, it becomes Alternate History as determined by the player, with the start year being the point of divergence for that Alternate History."

    I want laser tanks in the game, mod team. Make a submod quickly.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Lack Of Siege Engines

    Thanks for the suggestion k/t! I feel really bad for not having thought of that myself... it will be in SSHIP 0.8.4!

    Other stuff we're experimenting with by the way are battledroids (but only after 1250, everything else would be unrealistic/overpowered), spaceships and as a little bonus every major faction will be able to recruit one of the avengers to their assistance.

    On a serious note, it would be okay to put catapults back in I guess, or even ballistas, but trebuchets simply weren't developed for northern europe yet back then.

  13. #13
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: Lack Of Siege Engines

    First, we need to make the difference between the catapult (with wheels) and the Onager (without wheels). Then, the usual representation of them with a "cup" to throw the objects is wrong. Actually, medieval catapults/onager were equipped with a sling to generate more force and throw the object further with more accuracy. This sling effect was later developed into the Trebuchet.

    If we put them back in the game, we can keep the actual model for now and see if it's possible to correct it later on (with the sling but it would requiere some work).

    Considering that the siege engines were built where the siege was taking place, could it be possible to add them (all siege engines) on the siege screen, in addition with the rams, ladders and siege towers? Then the relevant building would be kept in the settlements but instead to allow the player to built siege engines, it would give an ancillary like siege engineer. So, if you keep a general in a settlement with such building (and depending on that building level) during a certain amount of turn, that general would get the siege engineer ancillary and would be able to build some siege equipment during siege. Note that this is just theoritical.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

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