The predecessor of EU:The Latin Monetary Union

[Papay]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Monetary_Union




Established in 1865 and abolished in 1927. It was the first attempt to unify European countries to a common currency but it failed. To be honest i never knew that this thing existed till an hour ago. An interesting experiment. Could Euro follow a similar path?

[hellheaven1987]

Half of members on that map is not Latin nation at all, no wonder it failed.

[Denny Crane!]

That is surprisingly interesting. I"ll read about it now.

But yeah I can't see the Euro surviving.

[ShockBlast]

That is surprisingly interesting. I"ll read about it now.

But yeah I can't see the Euro surviving.

Cry some more, please.

@OP
No, the EU is a new construct kickstarted by the resistance forces of Europe after WW2.

[Denny Crane!]

Cry some more, please.

@OP
No, the EU is a new construct kickstarted by the resistance forces of Europe after WW2.

Honestly the weird thing is, I've got like an emotional attachment to the idea! I think its wonderful to be able to travel and have the same money I think its pretty cool even if I badly miss the peseta and those odd coins with holes in the middle.

[ShockBlast]

Honestly the weird thing is, I've got like an emotional attachment to the idea! I think its wonderful to be able to travel and have the same money I think its pretty cool even if I badly miss the peseta and those odd coins with holes in the middle.

You know that with or without the Euro the same countries would have the same problems.The Euro only tied their rotten behind to Germany, thus allow Germany to teach them the meaning of "Teutonic fiscal discipline".

We are so well linked by the financiar sector that having different currency changes very little.It was said financiar sector that allowed the shockwave to jump the ocean.EU and USA don`t even have a basic trade agreement let alone a common currency thus invalidating the whole whining about the common currency.

I know that you aleady know this.

You Brits and your emotional attachments, if only you formed such an obsessive attachment with the idea of European unity.

[Denny Crane!]

You know that with or without the Euro the same countries would have the same problems.The Euro only tied their rotten behind to Germany, thus allow Germany to teach them the meaning of "Teutonic fiscal discipline".

We are so well linked by the financiar sector that having different currency changes very little.It was said financiar sector that allowed the shockwave to jump the ocean.EU and USA don`t even have a basic trade agreement let alone a common currency thus invalidating the whole whining about the common currency.

That isn't actually true what it allowed was a bigger lender of last resort. Spanish and Greek firms and governments particularly (though more private with the spanish) would not have had access to the money. Sure we would have had a financial crisis maybe Greece would have been in trouble but not in the same way and the sovereign debt crisis wouldn't have followed the financial crisis.

I know that you aleady know this.

You Brits and your emotional attachments, if only you formed such an obsessive attachment with the idea of European unity.

I've said many times I could have gotten further behind the Euro if they'd kept it small and kept it stable but then this was never about common sense and what would work but grandstanding by politicians and their giant social dream.

[ShockBlast]

That isn't actually true what it allowed was a bigger lender of last resort. Spanish and Greek firms and governments particularly (though more private with the spanish) would not have had access to the money. Sure we would have had a financial crisis maybe Greece would have been in trouble but not in the same way and the sovereign debt crisis wouldn't have followed the financial crisis.

Well you kind of stated a pro for the Euro and the ECB at the start.Well we are talking possibilities here thus we may or may not have a sovereign debt crisis at the end of the day but allow me to doubt that Greece and even Spain would have been better without the Euro.

One thing that should have been learnt, do not overspend, may have been learnt at lest for Spain and Italy if not for Greece.

One thing I`ll give you is that the Euro was rushed.If the monetary union would have been followed by a political union and some underdeveloped countries should have been kept out until they were truely ready.

I've said many times I could have gotten further behind the Euro if they'd kept it small and kept it stable but then this was never about common sense and what would work but grandstanding by politicians and their giant social dream.

Well it was a compromise between continental political unionism and British nationalism.The economic cooperation deepened while the political reforms lagged behind.

Maybe they rushed it but they neglected the cultural and the political aspect of this grand project.

Cheers.

[Denny Crane!]

Thank goodness for the fun being moderated out of our posts god forbid we have a bit of a laugh as we debate!

Well you kind of stated a pro for the Euro and the ECB at the start.Well we are talking possibilities here thus we may or may not have a sovereign debt crisis at the end of the day but allow me to doubt that Greece and even Spain would have been better without the Euro.

Emotionally yes. I think its a great idea. Everyone working together and all that and people being able to move freely and easily. Grand. But I mean the end game of communism is nice emotionally, doesn't work practically. Greece and Spain were what they were, Spain actually was fiscally very conservative. Greece not so much, politically I am talking. But after the Euro Greece could lend whatever it wanted, Spanish private firms could. Without they might have been a bit crap but they would never have been in trouble and that trouble couldn't have effected global markets because its all nice and contained within a single country.

Did Argentina cause a global catastrophe? No because its an incompetent little country off doing its own thing. God bless em Greece could have been the same. Spain was absolutely not incompetent on the fiscal balance side of things, perhaps they could have controlled their housing sector but am I in the UK really going to cast stone sized aspersions in my country sized glass house? I don't think so.

One thing that should have been learnt, do not overspend, may have been learnt at lest for Spain and Italy if not for Greece.

As said above, they didn't, never have really except for bailing out banks just lately.

One thing I`ll give you is that the Euro was rushed.If the monetary union would have been followed by a political union and some underdeveloped countries should have been kept out until they were truely ready.


Well it was a compromise between continental political unionism and British nationalism.The economic cooperation deepened while the political reforms lagged behind.

Maybe they rushed it but they neglected the cultural and the political aspect of this grand project.

Cheers.

Mmmm not sure Britain had anything to do with the speed or pace of the Euro, the project moved ahead and left us behind long ago, we just try to ignore that fact.

[fkizz]

Nice find OP. I'll research this for a while.

[Gaidin]

Half of members on that map is not Latin nation at all, no wonder it failed.

Gold spoke back then. Not language.

[fkizz]

Gold spoke back then. Not language.

Some "birds" say the current euro also has elements of going back to gold standart in practice.

[Gaidin]

Some "birds" say the current euro also has elements of going back to gold standart in practice.

Possibly. But it seems one of the major difficulties back then was keeping silver as the lesser currency locked in given its constant fluctuations. Nowadays I'd say we're looking at both learning from errors and the issue of dealing with economic problems of countries you let in.

[fkizz]

God damn this bugs me. 6 years of eurocrisis, decade and half of euro single currency and only now I get to know of this? The mass media, even books keep repeating there is no european historical precedance of a breakup to compare? What is this ghostery?

The mass media and everything sold the Euro Single Currency as a "new thing" or without "precedents of breakup". Now this link appears. Is all of this a mere coincidence?

I'm baffled.

[Gaidin]

It's...not the best comparison because the countries haven't been tied to gold for a long damn time much less using it directly. In fact, the only thing that says its a comparison at all is that they tried something similar. The economic theory, I think, you'll find, is completely different. So in reality, it is a new thing, beyond saying, yes, there will be some rough patches, so be ready for them.

[ShockBlast]

Emotionally yes. I think its a great idea. Everyone working together and all that and people being able to move freely and easily. Grand. But I mean the end game of communism is nice emotionally, doesn't work practically. Greece and Spain were what they were, Spain actually was fiscally very conservative. Greece not so much, politically I am talking. But after the Euro Greece could lend whatever it wanted, Spanish private firms could. Without they might have been a bit crap but they would never have been in trouble and that trouble couldn't have effected global markets because its all nice and contained within a single country.

Did Argentina cause a global catastrophe? No because its an incompetent little country off doing its own thing. God bless em Greece could have been the same. Spain was absolutely not incompetent on the fiscal balance side of things, perhaps they could have controlled their housing sector but am I in the UK really going to cast stone sized aspersions in my country sized glass house? I don't think so.

Now this is what I call good material for a ECB and EU refrom.

It highlights that some of the EU members weren`t ready for adoption of the common currency.As you underlined having the Euro can expose said countries to some nasty effects if they mismanage the curreny.
On the other hand the Euro did offer them ample advantages which they put to good use.
For me this is another pro-argument but also a warning that we must not rush it for some countries especially when it comes to economic realities.

I dare say that Argentina and Greece aren`t comparable to the level of exposure they had to big banks.I don`t think that Greece could have caused a global catastrophe but they sure as hell would have caused a lot more harm then Argentina ever did.

Mmmm not sure Britain had anything to do with the speed or pace of the Euro, the project moved ahead and left us behind long ago, we just try to ignore that fact.

I hope UK agrees to federalisation project.....eventually.

Cheers.

[fkizz]

It's...not the best comparison because the countries haven't been tied to gold for a long damn time much less using it directly. In fact, the only thing that says its a comparison at all is that they tried something similar. The economic theory, I think, you'll find, is completely different. So in reality, it is a new thing, beyond saying, yes, there will be some rough patches, so be ready for them.

Oh it's Gaidin again first replier to my posts.

Going by Jens Nordvig, finalist of Wolfson Prize of Economy, the Euro does present the type of patterns and constraints similiar to Gold Standard time, in terms of adjustment policies required. So the "no gold; this time is different" ain't gonna work to fool old uncle fkizz. For the very skeptic, add Reinhart and Rogoff book to the salad mix, with the ironic title "This time is different", you're also free to purchase if you want to check.

Source is chapter 7 of his (Jens Nordvig) book "The Fall of the Euro". You're free to purchase it if you want to check. My version is in Portuguese, so offering a direct translation of said chapter 7 is "Involuntary Gold Standard: Economy of Inflexibility"

Though this already fallen latin monetary union needs more research before any sure conclusion. Seems the dismantling of the attempts at monetary union wasn't as catastrophic as some people hint, as to control with fear. Maybe an eurobreakup is much easier and less tragic than people think.

I hope UK agrees to federalisation project.....eventually.

Allow me to ask.. where do you find this amount of faith to display worship towards the euro symbol?

[Condottiere 40K]

23135
I believe the consensus is that only the countries in the European north have the discipline required to follow the Euro rules.

[ShockBlast]

Allow me to ask.. where do you find this amount of faith to display worship towards the euro symbol?

It`s called reality, you should try it.

[fkizz]

It`s called reality, you should try it.

Less vague answer please? That is too much faith in one suposedly non religious symbol, even by religious people standards.