Pilot kills 150, crashing plane into Alps in apparent suicide

[Navajo Joe]

At the end of the day the airlines have to decide whether they are in greater risk from suicidal pilots or from a terrorist action on the aircraft, its a difficult one to make a call on.

I also heard but not seen any confirmation that the French scrambled two Mirages to intercept the aircraft as it had failed to respond to ATC communications, lets hope that they did not play any part in this tradegy.

As far as the US system, earlier this year a pilot was locked out of the cockpit on a Delta Airlines flight, so that proves no system is fail proof.

[Mangalore]

I feel the term Kamikaze makes a judgement call about the psychological condition of the co pilot when the entire open investigation will be about the psychological condition of the co pilot.

also: does it matter or is it surprising that the co pilot is German?

There is some talk by German media that the co pilot had suffered from "burnout" during his training years, however burn out is a fashionable term for a veriety of conditions of mental exhaustion and depression, not in itself very good explanation of the act which would only fit a far more severe psychotic break, either from a medical condition or far more severe stress. The very fact that we can only find a handful of candidate cases where pilots similarily chose a suicide+homocide speaks about the special circumstances of such a case (vs. tens of thousands of pilots on hundreds of thousands of flights)

There is also the fact that the co pilot apparently managed to not show any signs of abnormal behavior but apparently acted pretty quickly when the chance arose. However there is also a lot of unknowns here. I would have thought a health event most likely (e.g. the elder pilot suffering a stroke when the younger one is locked out), however there might be still various things that could have set off the co pilots behavior.

[SPECTREtm]

I suggest more thorough and regular background checks and screenings/psych checks of airline pilots and personnel. "Normal" people don't deliberately crash planes and murder hundreds or thousands.

That won't stop a spontanous act in way or shape. The fact that the co-pilot could override the captain is stupid beyond comprehension.

[Venomousmonkey]

At the end of the day the airlines have to decide whether they are in greater risk from suicidal pilots or from a terrorist action on the aircraft, its a difficult one to make a call on.

I also heard but not seen any confirmation that the French scrambled two Mirages to intercept the aircraft as it had failed to respond to ATC communications, lets hope that they did not play any part in this tradegy.

As far as the US system, earlier this year a pilot was locked out of the cockpit on a Delta Airlines flight, so that proves no system is fail proof.

I boil it down to Murphy's Law in cases like this. Anything that can possibly go wrong, does.

[Roma_Victrix]

We are talking about opening a door.... That's it. The door to the cockpit in this case was closed and locked. It could not be bashed down (thanks 9/11) and the emergency unlock feature could not be utilized because the co-pilot willingly used the override feature on the cockpit side. When the code is entered you have to wait 3 minutes, in those three minutes if the people on the cockpit side can override the unlock and prevent entry. The person using the emergency unlock must then re-enter the code. In this accident the pilot furiously tried entering the code but never gained entry. The ONLY way that is possible is if the co-pilot was stopping it from happening in that 3 minute window. This is not a "hypothetical problem" this is EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. And failure to gain entry has occurred at least once before due to a suicidal pilot (Air Egypt I believe). To avoid this from happening again, a non-plane based solution is likely required. Hence, my suggestion of allowing ground controllers to UNLOCK the door. Not take control of the plan or disable anything. Just unlock the door. If the pilot could have communicated with the ground and they had unlocked the door. He may have been able to regain control of the aircraft.

That would be a fabulous idea, giving flight staff located outside the cockpit access to ground control communication with ground control's ability to unlock the cockpit door. That or just never leaving the damn co-pilot alone by himself.

[Gaidin]

That won't stop a spontanous act in way or shape. The fact that the co-pilot could override the captain is stupid beyond comprehension.

It has nothing to do with the captain. It has everything to do with a system designed to be locked from the inside. Their was always a risk of something like this if you want a system controlled from the inside by crew.

[Condottiere 40K]

14293
If someone wants to commit suicide, it could be described as a tragedy; taking a planeload of passengers with you is mass murder.

If he wanted to end it by crashing, he could have rented a private aircraft.

[Knight of Heaven]

14075
I recall that there are constraints in fly by wire that prevent deliberate steep dives.

Also, it appears that the copilot has a Teutonic name and is described as appearing non-depressive.

Thats not what i have been reading. I read that he had nerve problems before.
Six years ago, he interrupted his training education in Lufthansa civil school, because of nerves and depression, and as i understand that is unusual to happen in this course.
Of course we dont know if any of it is actualy relevant for the case at hand. Anyone is susceptible to that sort of thing now and again after all.

If someone wants to commit suicide, it could be described as a tragedy; taking a planeload of passengers with you is mass murder.

If he wanted to end it by crashing, he could have rented a private aircraft.

Maybe he didnt wanted, enough to plan for it, but did it anyway in the spur of the moment.
Sometimes there isnt logic explanations for it.
My older brother, had a good friend that kill himself out of the blue, he was seemely happy, with a wife, and a young baby girl of 3 months old. One night he just stoped in the midle of 25 Aprils Bridge in Lisbon, ( one he traveled countless times before), and just flung himself to tagus River. With no aparent logic behind it, until to this day. Was he depressive? not more then the usual normal person, as far we know.
Andreas Lubitz might have been depressive, or maybe not, we dont know, and i doubt we ever will.
Unless there is other logical reason behind it, like terrorism and stuff, in wich evidence is likely to apear, but i doubt it is the case.

[Denny Crane!]

On American Airplanes you must have two people in a cockpit at any one time, 3 pilots one on rest and if the other spare pilot wants a toilet break a stewardess has to be in there. Seems sensible.

[Roma_Victrix]

It's one thing to commit suicide. It's entirely something different to take 150 other people down with you. That's psychotic.

On American Airplanes you must have two people in a cockpit at any one time, 3 pilots one on rest and if the other spare pilot wants a toilet break a stewardess has to be in there. Seems sensible.

I'm not sure why this isn't already the universal standard. It sure as hell will be implemented in all European airlines from now on, at least one would hope. I'd be very wary to travel on any European airline after this.

[Tiberios]

​Moved to the Thema Devia.

[Navajo Joe]

Guys,

The three people in the cockpit did not happen with this recent Delta Airlines Incident.

The Telegraph

By Joe Daunt, video source Newsflare10:42AM GMT 02 Feb 2015

A Delta Air Lines flight had to make an emergency landing after the pilot could not regain access to the cockpit.

The pilot, who had taken a toilet break, found the door to the cockpit had malfunctioned during the flight from Minneapolis to Las Vegas on Thursday.

The plane's co-pilot was then forced to make an emergency landing at McCarran International Airport. The plane landed safely.

Airport spokesman Christine Crews said the first officer completed an 'unassisted landing' which was taken 'very seriously'.

She said: "This was an unusual landing. He called the airport so that we would have ground response available."

Your as safe on European aircraft as a US aircraft, this is just a very sad freak incident

[Gaidin]

It's one thing to commit suicide. It's entirely something different to take 150 other people down with you. That's psychotic.

Suicidal people generally are indifferent to what you think.

As far as the US system, earlier this year a pilot was locked out of the cockpit on a Delta Airlines flight, so that proves no system is fail proof.

Huh...you don't say...

so that proves no system is fail proof.

Engineers learn that in EGR101...

[HAL-9000]

I'm an actual Airbus A320 pilot based in Europe. If you have any specific questions please feel free to ask it here and I'll answer them, but you have all seem to have answered most that have arisen from this thread. I've been informed that, if asked by the public, I am to help alleviate worry, so that is what I'll try to do :-)

[Knight of Heaven]

It's one thing to commit suicide. It's entirely something different to take 150 other people down with you. That's psychotic.



I'm not sure why this isn't already the universal standard. It sure as hell will be implemented in all European airlines from now on, at least one would hope. I'd be very wary to travel on any European airline after this.

You dont realy have to., When you have this... also fun if you want to get laid.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Or if you realy want to be a hyppy about it...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

At anycase, this sort of thing isnt new, it happened before, all over the world. So it could happen in the US or Australia, or any country in the world. As at already did in the past.
Also, if one is suicidal, one tends to not think on the other 150 people.

[Stavroforos]

In that tone, I'd say it's imperative that intelligence agencies make sure there's no ulterior motive in this suicide, even if it doesn't have the appearance of it happening for any such ulterior reason.

[Aikanár]

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[Copperknickers II]

It's one thing to commit suicide. It's entirely something different to take 150 other people down with you. That's psychotic.



I'm not sure why this isn't already the universal standard. It sure as hell will be implemented in all European airlines from now on, at least one would hope. I'd be very wary to travel on any European airline after this.

Why? Air travel is the safest means of travel there is. It's a well known fact that after 9/11 there was a massive increase in road traffic deaths, because a large quantity of idiots decided it would be safer to drive hundreds of miles rather than fly, and thus increased their likelihood of death by several thousand fold.

[Roma_Victrix]

You dont realy have to., When you have this... also fun if you want to get laid.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Or if you realy want to be a hyppy about it...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

At anycase, this sort of thing isnt new, it happened before, all over the world. So it could happen in the US or Australia, or any country in the world. As at already did in the past.

You know, I did the Euro rail thing back last summer when I was in Germany, Austria, Italy, and Switzerland. It was a breeze. Loved it. I didn't get laid on the train, but I don't hold anything against their service for that.

To get to Germany I actually took an Irish airlines flight, Ryanair. When I go to France this summer I'll be taking EasyJet, a British airline, so I suppose I shouldn't be one to talk about not traveling on a European airline. I'm not exactly going to cancel my flight over something like this. Obviously it was a freak occurrence, as Navajo Joe argues.

Also, if one is suicidal, one tends to not think on the other 150 people.

He could have just as easily slit his wrists in the bath tub or concocted some poison for himself to swallow. No. He deliberately chose the airplane as his means to end it all, unless of course you think this was a spur of the moment decision. I know little to no details about the man, so I cannot say anything either way.

Why? Air travel is the safest means of travel there is. It's a well known fact that after 9/11 there was a massive increase in road traffic deaths, because a large quantity of idiots decided it would be safer to drive hundreds of miles rather than fly, and thus increased their likelihood of death by several thousand fold.

I'm well aware of the statistics. I'm just basically saying that I'd feel more comfortable on a US airline.

[trance]

Mangalore: No, it's not a judgemental or premature call. The pilot locked out his colleagues and proceeded to kill all of them, this is not to be viewed as the results of a mentally unstable individual committing suicide, this is a mass murder or a terrorist attack. Probably the former.

Burnout, exhaustion or stress doesn't lead to these types of incidents, what one does by indicating that this is the case is stigmatize burnout and stress, as well as excusing the perpetrator from his actions. Like it was all a natural - albeit disproportional - response caused by the system or life stressors. This is not what the science around stress, burnout or suicide supports and it reinforces myths concerning these phenomena.