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Thread: RCM 2 for Kingdoms

  1. #1
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    Default RCM 2 for Kingdoms

    RCM 2 for Kingdoms

    Introduction:
    RCM2 for Kingdoms aims at implementing the newest version of this brilliant and realistic combat overhaul mod into all four Medieval II Kingdoms campaigns.
    Besides, I'll try to add useful features like better graphics and a smarter AI.

    Features:
    - RCM 2 for Americas, Britannia, Crusades and Teutonic
    - ReallyBadAI
    - G5 Settlement Tweaks
    - Better models and textures

    Resources:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Help Needed:
    - I always appreciate feedback about the stats, bugs and design decisions.

    License:
    (Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International
    )
    Last edited by Destin Faroda; April 29, 2016 at 04:12 PM.
    My Mods:
    RCM 2 for Medieval II Total War Kingdoms
    A battle realism mod for all four Medieval II Total War Kingdoms campaigns

    Shogun II Total Realism
    A realism mod for Shogun II, Rise of the Samurai and Fall of the Samurai

  2. #2

    Default Re: RC 2 for Kingdoms

    I could be wrong on this, but I don't think you can.
    To the best of my knowledge, the unit entries and faction slots of those additional campaigns were all converted to make room for the added units of this mod.

    I do know that the entire western part of the world map was whacked off add additional land mass was added to the east.

    Again, I may be off on this and if I am I'm sure someone will correct me.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: RC 2 for Kingdoms

    Maybe I didn't make myself clear: I only want to add the superior battle mechanics to the Americas campaign.
    Several years ago, there was a file achieving that, but neither can I find it anymore nor would it be up-to-date.
    I have no intention of changing factions or the map.
    My Mods:
    RCM 2 for Medieval II Total War Kingdoms
    A battle realism mod for all four Medieval II Total War Kingdoms campaigns

    Shogun II Total Realism
    A realism mod for Shogun II, Rise of the Samurai and Fall of the Samurai

  4. #4

    Default Re: RC 2 for Kingdoms

    You'd have to recalculate all the stats of the units in the Americas campaign according to the RC 2.0 guide. And even then the RC guide doesn't really have any mechanics to depict the weapons of the aztecs, ... and also no mechanics to depict the huge technological differences between the colonists and the natives. I don't think RC can be used for the Americas campaign without any changes to the guide.

    You'd have to ask PB or k\t for all the stuff you need to change, but they're not around for the moment.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: RC 2 for Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by mana85 View Post
    You'd have to recalculate all the stats of the units in the Americas campaign according to the RC 2.0 guide.
    I've done similar work for Shogun II, so that shouldn't be too difficult. However, I need to acquaintance myself with the file structure and content of Medieval II.

    Quote Originally Posted by mana85 View Post
    And even then the RC guide doesn't really have any mechanics to depict the weapons of the aztecs,
    Obsidian clubs/swords? I would treat them as two-handers with armour piercing capabilities. So the Aztecs would be quite aggressive, but with weak armour. The Native Americans would be good at hiding while the Europeans feature gunpowder weapon and steel armours.

    Quote Originally Posted by mana85 View Post
    ... and also no mechanics to depict the huge technological differences between the colonists and the natives.
    Gunpowder weapons, cannons and steel armour should suffice to portray European superiority.

    Quote Originally Posted by mana85 View Post
    I don't think RC can be used for the Americas campaign without any changes to the guide.
    Then maybe I should start with a different campaign.
    My Mods:
    RCM 2 for Medieval II Total War Kingdoms
    A battle realism mod for all four Medieval II Total War Kingdoms campaigns

    Shogun II Total Realism
    A realism mod for Shogun II, Rise of the Samurai and Fall of the Samurai

  6. #6

    Default Re: RC 2 for Kingdoms

    I mean you could definitely give it a go if you really want to

    Latest RC 2.0 guide is in the Eliminating AP thread

    Latest EDU, projectiles.txt, mounts.txt, ... (for Stainless Steel ofc) are in the thread below this one (Questions regarding .....)

    here's a good tutorial to the EDU:

    http://medieval2.heavengames.com/m2t...de/index.shtml

    for more info about modding, you can look in the related forum (Mod Workshop I think)

  7. #7
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    Default Re: RC 2 for Kingdoms

    I guess I now understand the mount, wall and projectiles files. So far, I've been able to copy the new values to the Americas campaign, but the unit stats are quite difficult.
    Maybe I should create a LibreOffice Calc table with lots of formulas to properly generate unit stats.

    - Can someone tell me what the skeleton file is there for? Is it the one that modifies the animations that are mentioned in the RCM 2 file? How do I get the original one to compare it with the RC 2 version? The Americas unpacker didn't create such a file.

    - Does anybody know why the unit editor from the tools and tutorials forum section doesn't work (with Kingdoms)? I'm spoiled by the Assembly Kit and prefer GUIs over text files.
    My Mods:
    RCM 2 for Medieval II Total War Kingdoms
    A battle realism mod for all four Medieval II Total War Kingdoms campaigns

    Shogun II Total Realism
    A realism mod for Shogun II, Rise of the Samurai and Fall of the Samurai

  8. #8

    Default Re: RC 2 for Kingdoms

    This reminds me that I wanted to create a guide for people who want to convert mods to RR/RC. I still want to.

    I don't think obsidian clubs and swords should be AP.

    The skeleton file tells the game what animations each animation set is made up of. Which animation to use for walking, for turning, for swinging, etc.

    You should be able to convert the Americas campaign. You might have to improvise some things, though.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: RC 2 for Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    This reminds me that I wanted to create a guide for people who want to convert mods to RR/RC. I still want to.
    I'd like to create a LibreOffice Calc table with drop-down lists and lots of IF queries. That would be very handy, but I have yet to find out how I can use IF queries on drop-down lists.

    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    I don't think obsidian clubs and swords should be AP.
    Those things are blunt weapons which are very effective against armour.

    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    The skeleton file tells the game what animations each animation set is made up of. Which animation to use for walking, for turning, for swinging, etc.
    Can I simply put the file I found here into the data folder or would that lead to a crash?
    My Mods:
    RCM 2 for Medieval II Total War Kingdoms
    A battle realism mod for all four Medieval II Total War Kingdoms campaigns

    Shogun II Total Realism
    A realism mod for Shogun II, Rise of the Samurai and Fall of the Samurai

  10. #10

    Default Re: RC 2 for Kingdoms

    If the animations have the same names, it should be fine.

    The Europeans who explored the New World would have worn plate armour to an (large?) extent. I don't know what helmets they had in the beginning, but later they had morion helmets. You're not going to do much against something like that with a club.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: RC 2 for Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    If the animations have the same names, it should be fine.
    Where do I have to put the skeleton file? I've placed it in the data folder and the game works fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    The Europeans who explored the New World would have worn plate armour to an (large?) extent.
    Apparently, it was mass-produced militia-grade steel armour, but it was sturdy steel nonetheless.

    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    I don't know what helmets they had in the beginning, but later they had morion helmets. You're not going to do much against something like that with a club.
    I've looked around the net and found out that atlatls were only able to put minimal dents inot steel armours.
    Obsidian weapons were very sharp, but could easily break and were therefore quite useless against steel armour. I thought these weapons were clubs, so that's why I wanted to give them AP ability.


    Can someone confirm if the following entry is correct?

    type Aztec Peasants
    dictionary Aztec_Peasants ; Peasants
    category infantry
    class light
    voice_type Light
    banner faction main_infantry
    soldier Aztec_Peasants, 80, 0, 0.6 (Mesoamericans need numerical advantage against the Europeans; no armour = low mass)
    attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_withdraw, is_peasant, peasant
    move_speed_mod 1.0
    formation 1.4, 1.4, 2.8, 2.8, 6, square (peasant values)
    stat_health 1, 0 (First is always 1, second one is 1 for infantry and -1 for peasant)
    stat_pri 1, 1, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, blunt, mace, 105, 1.2 (They use maces and lose several damage, charge and defense points due to being peasants)
    ;stat_pri_ex 0, 0, 0
    stat_pri_attr ap (mace)
    stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, melee_simple, blunt, none, 25, 1
    ;stat_sec_ex 0, 0, 0
    stat_sec_attr no
    stat_pri_armour 0, 4, 1, flesh (no armour, but a buckler; peasant quality lowers several values)
    ;stat_armour_ex 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 5, 5, flesh
    stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
    stat_heat 3 (2 for mace, +3 for peasant and -2 for Mesoamerica)
    stat_ground 1, 0, 3, -4 (Mesoamerica has a hot climate and is covered by jungles)
    stat_mental 3, low, untrained (4 for peasant and -1 for low discipline)
    stat_charge_dist 30 (RCM2 doesn't mention charge distances for infantry units)
    stat_fire_delay 0
    stat_food 60, 300
    stat_cost 1, 200, 68, 55, 135, 200, 4, 60 (I didn't touch these)
    armour_ug_levels 0
    armour_ug_models Aztec_Peasants
    ownership aztecs, slave
    era 1 aztecs
    era 2 aztecs
    ;unit_info 5, 0, 6
    recruit_priority_offset 10
    Last edited by Destin Faroda; March 26, 2015 at 11:48 AM. Reason: Update
    My Mods:
    RCM 2 for Medieval II Total War Kingdoms
    A battle realism mod for all four Medieval II Total War Kingdoms campaigns

    Shogun II Total Realism
    A realism mod for Shogun II, Rise of the Samurai and Fall of the Samurai

  12. #12

    Default Re: RC 2 for Kingdoms

    Charge distance for infantry is 6.

    Aztecs should have thrown grenade-tipped javelins instead of obsidian-tipped ones. For maximum impact. Maybe you can make a unit like that.

    Don't forget to put a ; between the original entries and your comments in the EDU.

    Take a look at how I entered my calculations in my EDUs. I think that's the clearest way for you and anyone else to look at the process. If you "show your work", you're less likely to make a mistake, and you end up doing less typing too.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: RC 2 for Kingdoms

    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    Charge distance for infantry is 6.
    6 meters? That's quite a short distance for charge attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    Aztecs should have thrown grenade-tipped javelins instead of obsidian-tipped ones. For maximum impact. Maybe you can make a unit like that.
    In the beginning, changes will be very conservative. If everything works well, I can think about adding new content.
    Actually, I've already implemented the ReallyBadAI and the better settlement pathfinding mod. Most of the other interesting mods like better water and grass are not available anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    Don't forget to put a ; between the original entries and your comments in the EDU.
    These comments don't exist in my file. Otherwise, the game would crash at startup.

    One of the biggest problems I have is choosing the right unit quality. For example, are famous and renowned units like the Tercios Pikemen and Rodeleros (Sword and Buckler Men) average or superior units?
    My Mods:
    RCM 2 for Medieval II Total War Kingdoms
    A battle realism mod for all four Medieval II Total War Kingdoms campaigns

    Shogun II Total Realism
    A realism mod for Shogun II, Rise of the Samurai and Fall of the Samurai

  14. #14

    Default Re: RC 2 for Kingdoms

    If you're having trouble with such decisions, use export_units in the RC 2 files for inspiration.

    No, it's a good distance for infantry charges so they work well in the game. Also, I don't know how much infantry actually charged, since that would mean rushing into enemy weapons and losing formation. I think infantry charges are mainly the domain of movies.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: RC 2 for Kingdoms

    - Should all the Mesoamerican weapons receive the negative rustic modifiers? Tomahawks, maquahuitl etc. don't seem to be very advance when you compare them to iron or steal weapons.
    - I'm only able to see one infantry shield type and I presume it's the buckler.
    - How durable was wooden armour? Currently, I treat them the following way: +3 armour, +2 defense, +1 heat, light terrain.
    - I've outfitted the Mesoamerican factions with simple short bows. According to the ingame model, it doesn't look like a composite bow.
    - What about firing delay? I'm not able to find appropriate values and a gunpowder weapon with a reload time of 5 seconds is highly unrealistic.
    - The game calls the gunpowder weapons "muskets", but weren't they introduced a bit later? Aren't Europeans and Native Americans supposed to use late arquebuses?
    My Mods:
    RCM 2 for Medieval II Total War Kingdoms
    A battle realism mod for all four Medieval II Total War Kingdoms campaigns

    Shogun II Total Realism
    A realism mod for Shogun II, Rise of the Samurai and Fall of the Samurai

  16. #16

    Default Re: RC 2 for Kingdoms

    Uh...they should have lower stats than steel weapons, definitely. I'd say it's because the materials used for them are less durable and strong, though, rather than because they are poorly made.

    How was wooden armour made? Planks of wood? Chips of wood strung together? I think 2 armour is enough.

    North American Indians did sometimes have sinew on the front of their bows, but they didn't use horn plates on the back. I don't know about Central and South Americans. Maybe the North American ones could get Composite Bow 4 - No Horn Plates 1 for a total of 3. Then the South guys could just use wooden bows with attack 2.

    Firing speed is mainly determined by the animation. You can adjust stat_fire_delay and attack delay until you get something satisfactory.

    The game starts in 15what? Yeah, you could go with late arquebuses.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: RC 2 for Kingdoms

    Thanks for your suggestions. I'll rework the Apachean and Chichimecas in the near future.
    My Mods:
    RCM 2 for Medieval II Total War Kingdoms
    A battle realism mod for all four Medieval II Total War Kingdoms campaigns

    Shogun II Total Realism
    A realism mod for Shogun II, Rise of the Samurai and Fall of the Samurai

  18. #18

    Default Re: RCM 2 for Kingdoms

    Download link doesn't work any more.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: RCM 2 for Kingdoms

    Actually, the mod is not finished, as I'm still waiting for the final version of RCM2.
    Besides, I still need to find out what kind of weapons and armours the units are wearing, which quality level they belong to and stuff like that.
    My Mods:
    RCM 2 for Medieval II Total War Kingdoms
    A battle realism mod for all four Medieval II Total War Kingdoms campaigns

    Shogun II Total Realism
    A realism mod for Shogun II, Rise of the Samurai and Fall of the Samurai

  20. #20

    Default Re: RCM 2 for Kingdoms

    Anyway I can help with this project? I would really like to see the unit stats part finished.

    The Better Grass mod can be found here:
    http://www.gamefront.com/files/13895..._Grass_1.0.rar

    The Better Water 2 mod can be extracted from other mods like Two Thrones 1.1 which can be found here:
    http://www.gamefront.com/files/22985...hrones_1.1.zip

    As for better models and textures why don't you start with Burrek's Textures mods or extract model and textures from Stainless Steel mod.

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