Rome II is dead meat?

[Destin Faroda]

Nah, I wouldn't be very optimist about the future of modding. ATW will be equally or slightly more moddable than R2.

No. CA has stated that you can't mod the Attila campaign map, so modders will most likely prefer Rome II.

Add to that the existence of features like the family tree and the horde mode and ATW turns to a much more attractive option for modders.

The family tree is quite useless and the horde is just a bunch of annoying cheat stacks going on your nerves and creating artificial challenge. Adding real challenge like manpower, supplies, proper trading system etc. would probably have been too much for the casual kiddies.

[Abdülmecid I]

No. CA has stated that you can't mod the Attila campaign map, so modders will most likely prefer Rome II.

Yeah, I know that, but the map is unmoddable in Rome II, so there's no advantage at all.

The family tree is quite useless and the horde is just a bunch of annoying cheat stacks going on your nerves and creating artificial challenge. Adding real challenge like manpower, supplies, proper trading system etc. would probably have been too much for the casual kiddies.

To be honest, I've no problem with the implementation of the family tree, but even if ti's useless, it's still something more than the "void" we had in Rome II. The same goes for the hordes, I don't like them much either, but their existence provides the modders with more options.

[BunnyPoopCereal]

the whole total war thing starts to be a big fat joke thanks to sega and cohorts... Especially now that they'Re apparently (I do not own attila) doing the cut out content as DLC thing again with Attila...

People are beginning to catch on. You can see the reaction simply by looking at all the negative comments in their recently released youtube videos.

[Kraut and Tea]

I guess someone from Sega walked into the CA office and said:

"Stop working on Rome 2. The company has assest the situation and conducted reasearch that have lead the chairmen to conclude that no significant further profits are to be made from enhancing this product for those who already purchased it and that no further customers will be attracted through enhancing this products capacities for free. The company has decided that you are to no longer put it`s resources into enhancing this product any further and that you are to refocuse your attention on other products that are or are to be for sale....................... If you have questions dont forget your application for your new assignment in the research team for Sega Android Apps in Miyazaki-ken... which you should know, is also known as the most boring place in Japan and on the other side of the world"

[Kraut and Tea]

People are beginning to catch on. You can see the reaction simply by looking at all the negative comments in their recently released youtube videos.

That wont help out anything.

The buisnesses that own game developing studios by in large follow a buisnessmodel known to German economists as "Kapitalentwertung" and for which I dont know the English term.

It`s a pritty simple thing really. You buy a profitable buisness as an investment marketing manager and then you sell off parts of the buisness in small pieces to other buisnesses and dismantle the structure of it`s brand. Through the brand you are capable of making profits through the sale of new products, but the real profit gradualy comes in as you dismantel the buisness. Because since you are selling off parts of the buisness you can still claim to be making no profits and that the buisness is failing, eventhough it is actualy selling it`s products. So you can cut production costs by lowering wages, fireing employees and in some cases even demand state help through bankrupcy laws (which is illegal in many countries and prosecuted as financial fraud).
In the end of the cicle you made profits through dismantling a buisness and selling off it`s parts, made profits from it`s product without paying the employees their due, you might made some profits through defrauding the tax payer by claiming bankrupcy and state help and you get to keep the legal rights of the brand name that you can sell off to the competition of the buisness you dismanteld.

It`s the way that alot of profitable formerly state owned buisnesses in Poland, East Germany, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary and the Czech Republic who had no clue and expirience with the free market were destroyed during the 1990s. Incidentaly it is also how Mitt Romneys firm made it`s money.

In total it`s a pritty doomsday scenario. And I could be wrong and you could be very right in saying that this wont happen here.

But when you read through what happend to the former Sim City developer Maxis under the management of the investment management shareholders of EA, I bet my ass that this is exactly what these shareholders did there. Spew out the guts of a Brand, dismantel the buisness to sell it off and then file for bankrupcy whilest keeping the legal rights to the Brand.

Video and PC game development is a fairly new industry, most of the people founding businesses dont know much about eceonomics and as such they are vulnerable to traps like this. So I wouldnt be suprised at all if these things will happen alot arround here. The people who manage game companies are game enthusiasts or developers, they are shareholders and investment firms.

The consumer community really doesnt matter much here. Our only hope is that several developers go " it" quit their job and start a new studio. Aswell as that fresh developing studios dont fall for the traps that others fell into.

[JaM]

truth to be told, CA stopping patching and updating Rome 2 would be like a blessing from heavens for all modders...it would allow us to finally work on more complex things without fearing next patch or DLC will ruin everything...

[D@gget]

Video and PC game development is a fairly new industry, most of the people founding businesses dont know much about eceonomics and as such they are vulnerable to traps like this. So I wouldnt be suprised at all if these things will happen alot arround here. The people who manage game companies are game enthusiasts or developers, they are shareholders and investment firms.

The consumer community really doesnt matter much here. Our only hope is that several developers go " it" quit their job and start a new studio. Aswell as that fresh developing studios dont fall for the traps that others fell into.

Sadly, people who know how to develop a game don't necessarily know how to run a business and make it sustainable.

[Axalon]

Personally, I always felt that RTW2 was totally dead meat ever since the Attila-rehash was announced to the masses... And especially so, after the actual release of Attila... I mean, why would a company like CA (with that kind of modus operandi) bother with the obvious failure of RTW2 - any longer then absolutely necessary? Especially when they had now somehow conjured up another shot at "$ucce$$ and ca$h" with "Attila the rehash"? Am I (really) the only one who ever thought so? I kind of doubt that...

- A

[DavidtheDuke]

Yeah, I know that, but the map is unmoddable in Rome II, so there's no advantage at all. To be honest, I've no problem with the implementation of the family tree, but even if ti's useless, it's still something more than the "void" we had in Rome II. The same goes for the hordes, I don't like them much either, but their existence provides the modders with more options.

I think the family treecould have use: You could mod it to where certain ranks get *very upset* if you don't appoint them into appropriate roles, or you change the heir to the crown, etc. It'd be nice if the family tree was actually integral and flagrant ineptitude of juggling the various interests could have 'organic' civil wars spiraling out of control.

[Leon_aditzu]

After Rome 2 debacle and Attila low sales, I wonder if Sega will want to kill the Total War series after next one, like the EA did to the more popular C&C and Microsoft did to Age of Empires. Alien Isolation and ARENA/KINGDOM proved that CA is starting to reorientates to genres for the casual market.

[johan_d]

Personally, I always felt that RTW2 was totally dead meat ever since the Attila-rehash was announced to the masses... And especially so, after the actual release of Attila... I mean, why would a company like CA (with that kind of modus operandi) bother with the obvious failure of RTW2 - any longer then absolutely necessary? Especially when they had now somehow conjured up another shot at "$ucce$$ and ca$h" with "Attila the rehash"? Am I (really) the only one who ever thought so? I kind of doubt that...

- A

Rome2 is still on sale? or did they redraw it ?
As long it is on sale it might attract buyers. And happy buyers will also buy Atilla. Ergo, they should keep Rome2 up to date for a while unless the
sales are go down deep. It makes money.

[JaM]

is anybody really surprised Attila was not a hit? People didnt wanted Attila, they wanted Rome 2 with those features... this is just a simple milking, asking customers to pay full price for something they expected to get the first time... on top of that they didnt even bothered fixing issues Rome 2 had, and repeated them in Attila as well (blobbing, ridiculous naval combat, lack of campaign strategy replaced by casual aspects)

[johan_d]

is anybody really surprised Attila was not a hit? People didnt wanted Attila, they wanted Rome 2 with those features... this is just a simple milking, asking customers to pay full price for something they expected to get the first time... on top of that they didnt even bothered fixing issues Rome 2 had, and repeated them in Attila as well (blobbing, ridiculous naval combat, lack of campaign strategy replaced by casual aspects)

Not suprised at all.
We (I) want a Rome era and not an Atilla one!
I just dont understand why they didnt capatilize on that.

[Dumanthis]

Well maybe we should have seen this one coming since really Medieval II is the last really good grand scale Total War game. Think about it: Empire had a lot of issues and was so unfinished that everyone could see that, I think it was a bit too obvious that they had taken a too big piece to chew eventhough they got many good new elements but also lost many good things from the previous titles. Napoleon was an upgrade for Empire with a smaller map and more specific setting and it was better though not amazing as someone might think, merely just the game Empire should have been. Shogun II is the only exception i think when it comes to these so called modern total wars: it was specific setting campaign with low amount of unique units but with huge amount of polish and the game is still in my opinion one of the best total wars if not the best. CA does not seem to handle well grand scale settings which we should have seen coming with Rome II.

[The Wandering Storyteller]

Dead meat for the company, not for the players.

[=ANTiKES=]

...this is just a simple milking, asking customers to pay full price for something they expected to get the first time...

In germany we're supposed to pay 64,95€ at this point. Let's see if CA can manage to reach the 100 mark with their 'two unique units' DLC

http://store.steampowered.com/app/325610/

[Axalon]

Rome2 is still on sale? or did they redraw it ?
As long it is on sale it might attract buyers. And happy buyers will also buy Atilla. Ergo, they should keep Rome2 up to date for a while unless the
sales are go down deep. It makes money.

I don't know, but I'll tell you this much... It is not a matter of what CA should do, it is (and always will be) a matter of what will they do. And that is an entirely different beast altogether. After all, there are tons of stuff CA should do but clearly won't, and there are tons of stuff that they (CA) should not do but happily do all the same (and repeatedly)... Case in point, the forced use of Steam or the way they handle and apply DLC's to their games, for starters... Neither are nowhere close to what they "should do" but allover "should not do"... This to ridiculous degrees, or that is what I think anyways...

- A

[Rumblefish]

They're done with Rome 2 - CA have repaired the game up to an average 7/10 standard and that's what the company are about these days. It's not about crafting incredible games. It's all about churning the content and counting the coins. Sad.

I wish another company (one who really cares about the product and player experience) would just come in and make a TW clone (but do it properly).

I think there's a big market for doing so. It would be like Sim Cities/Cities Skylines - where a developer just goes through the motions producing a sub-par game and employing unethical business practices, another studio should just blow them out of the water.

Who else is doing realtime ancient historical grand strategy these days? I'd love to see Paradox or Firaxis or similar have a go at it. They'd sell millions of units. There's Hegemony of course but it's so low budget to be a true competitor.

[JaM]

I think there's a big market for doing so. It would be like Sim Cities/Cities Skylines - where a developer just goes through the motions producing a sub-par game and employing unethical business practices, another studio should just blow them out of the water.

are there any sales reports for Cities Skylines yet? did it earned more money than Sim City? Because for large companies it is not important how much people like the game, but how much it earned in sales. and games with some well known names usually attract more people. It is sad, but that's how it is.. CA milks the players because they allow them to be milked.

Yet we might witness a turning point, Attila sales are not that high, not sure about DLCs, but if the trend will be similar, it will be enough for CA to reconsider their approach or for SEGA to cut their losses...

[johan_d]

It will only work if its a win-win situation.
Meaning, scrape as much as they like, DLC every if they want, but return quality.
Now its just greed, a one way situation. Getting as much money in a short possible time with as less effort as possible.
Profit maximalisation, and that will kill the company.
A baker with bad bread at premium price will go out of business, one with good bread at premium price will survive.
CA/SEGA will lose I am certain. They go the globalisation way, greed without ANY care. Short term thinking.