Ukraine and Russia Developments, Thread 3

[Basil II the B.S]

Wouldn't have mattered who won any election in ukraine. Counter intuitively, this referendum was never actually about Ukraine specifically. They're just the unfortunate victim / EU proxy that euroskeptics have elected to score a point off in order to give Brussels the finger.

Will be interesting to watch though. Either the EU or the Netherlands are going to end up with a constitutional crisis on their hands. The EU either betrays Ukraine and loses what little goodwill and credibility it had garnered, or the Netherlands overrides the referendum's (non binding) mandate in pursuance of geopolitical objectives, further fueling the skeptic point that the EU is fundamentally anti-democratic.

Last option is the most likely. Referendums never stopped eurofederalists from achieving their goals. Which is why the EU is going down the toilet anyway.

[Treize]

As somebody who actually voted no in the referendum... It had less to do with my dislike of the EU as such than with my hostility towards the actual treaty...

[Stavroforos]

How much did Putin pay you, Treize, and all the Dutchmen who voted that way? For that is the only explanation!

[Treize]

How much did Putin pay you, Treize, and all the Dutchmen who voted that way? For that is the only explanation!

Europe is dead. Europe remains dead. And we have killed her.

[Dromikaites]

Given the Dutch referendum is non-biding, I think the government there would wait until the results of the British referendum are known.

[Treize]

Given the Dutch referendum is non-biding, I think the government there would wait until the results of the British referendum are known.

They can't. Ruling coalition is pretty much decimated in the polls.

They will spin it a little. Get some "consessions" and pass the law. Probably.

[Basil II the B.S]

Hmm, doubt it. ''Changing it'' equates to rewriting the whole treaty, eg what they did with the European Constitution/Treaty of Lisbon with the risk of having to do another referendum. Most likely they'll pass it in one of those ''night sessions'' among other things to keep the public distracted.

[Treize]

Hmm, doubt it. ''Changing it'' equates to rewriting the whole treaty, eg what they did with the European Constitution/Treaty of Lisbon with the risk of having to do another referendum. Most likely they'll pass it in one of those ''night sessions'' among other things to keep the public distracted.

This is how they roll in Brussels.

But... This treaty is between the EU and all its member states individually and Ukraine. It is not just a treaty between the EU and Ukraine.

Whatever happens the treaty will be in effect in the meantime and we will be getting the wonderful situation of visa free travel with an impoverished warzone.

[Diocle]

Meanwhile Putin celebrates his new triumph, after the VICTORY in Syria. Congrats Angela-fat-ass-Merkel, and congrats to Mr. Hussein-Einstein-Obama: with your errors/horrors you have built day by day the mythology of the last Caesar in European history, turning a good Russian president into an unrivalled genius! Bravi!

[Stavroforos]

So good you'd want to move there?

[Sint]

turning a good Russian president into an unrivalled genius! Bravi!

Remind me how is that the case...?

you have built day by day the mythology of the last Caesar in European history

I guess you listen to russian media?

[Treize]

Lets destroy the little Ukrainian economy by cutting off the Donbas area from trade with Russia cuz we wannabe Cossack Rutherians have nothing to lose anyway. We want "European Values" here and we want then now! If we have to destory what we actually have for the mere hope of something better so be it, why wait for a deal that would be compatible with CIS trade rules. Hur dur Slava Ukraini hur dur.



Ahhhh, how did that turn out?

[Heathen Hammer]

I wonder what those "European values" are?

[Stavroforos]

Metric.

[Treize]

I wonder what those "European values" are?

Shortsighted optimism?

Ukraine is a country with a small economy and one that is dependent on Russia. It also wastes tonnes of gas because of ancient district heating systems.
So first priority would be to secure current trade ties with Russia and secure a cheap gas supply before looking to grow the economy, especially the poorer Western parts of the country.
The association treaty conflicts with CIS free trade rules and they wanted to work it out first so Ukraine refused to sign the treaty.

The EU is at fault here for pushing Ukraine to choose between EU and Russia instead of looking for a broader agreement that could benefit the EU, Ukraine (both parts) and Russia & Co.

But ofcourse the arrogant people of Kiev decided they wanted Yurop here and now so they started killing the police and commited a coup.

Result has been a disaster. They destroyed the economy of Eastern-Ukraine causing a great social division. (I am not even talking about the nationalist nonsense.)

The people of Western-Ukraine willingly (on purpose) destroyed the East because of their extreme Russophobia and desire to be "European". And when the people there started to behave in a counterrevolutionary manner they started shelling cities and villages while blaming everything on "Putler".

As a bonus EU trade with Russia has also been severely reduced. I worked for a company that since the beginning of the crisis started entering new markets such as Russia and had some nice orders from there. The Ukraine issue ruined everything. What? Are bankrupt 40% inflation Slava Ukrainians are now going to buy our export instead?

So... Destroy what you have in the hope of a Utopia in the here and now?
Don't expect me to be an enabler of this madness!

[Basil II the B.S]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-uk...-idUSKCN0X70JO
Ukrainian PM Yatseniuk resigns, paving way for new government

One down, though Americans wanted their own Jaresko to replace him. Just to complete the farce.

[Costin_Razvan]

How much did Putin pay you, Treize, and all the Dutchmen who voted that way? For that is the only explanation!

Did it ever occur to people that maybe the Dutch don't want millions of Ukrainians moving into Western Europe? A lot of people in most Western EU countries hate Romanians and Poles enough already, think they're gonna take kindly to millions more in the form of Ukrainians?

So anyway I hear the EU is going to ignore the referendum and just push the visa-free rules anyway. Congrats Junker, gaining Ukraine as a trade partner is really worth boosting people like Wilders and Marine Le Pen while ensuring the UK leaves the EU.

This is why Europe's gone to , because the elite here is willing to trade the UK....for Ukraine...morons.

[Stavroforos]

Did it ever occur to people that maybe the Dutch don't want millions of Ukrainians moving into Western Europe? A lot of people in most Western EU countries hate Romanians and Poles enough already, think they're gonna take kindly to millions more in the form of Ukrainians?

I was trying to paraphrase known Russophobes on the forum who blame everything that goes wrong on Putin, lol.

[Basil II the B.S]

Biden congratules with Ukraine over the ''accomplishments''.
https://next.ft.com/content/88670cae...#axzz45R97iqMW
You can't make this up.

[snuggans]

"The parliamentary faction of the Bloc of Petro Poroshenko has nominated Volodymyr Groysman to the post of prime minister. Having done everything to ensure stability and continuity of our course, I declare my decision to transfer the obligations and responsibilities of the head of government of Ukraine," he said.A complete break-up of the coalition could have triggered a snap parliamentary election that looked likely to boost populist parties. Meanwhile, if Groysman secures parliamentary approval, the formation of a more coherent government should increase the chance that the IMF will disburse the next $1.7 billion tranche of loans, delayed since October."

i don't understand what's all the complaining about Basil