German prof rejects indian student, citing "rape culture"

[Symphony]

But I know I know.... you weren't saying any of those things and I am arguing with myself just like in that other thread. Your posts apparently lack any substance whatsoever and are not meant to be indicative of you taking any particular stance on an issue which you would then have to defend.

Sometimes, that's completely true; I'm posting commentary that is intended to explore or highlight portions of the issue without taking a definitive stance (which is different than "without substance", but I'm sure you know that)....most issues don't actually lend themselves well to a binary "for or against" position (especially issues of race relations, which is where we usually clash).

Sometimes, yep, I'm being sarcastic and don't intend to add anything substantive. I'm human.

Sometimes, though, I'm just not taking the stance that you want me to take, because you're not equipped to argue anything that isn't a binary morality play. It's entirely possible to argue for something without having to argue against anything. People in an Internet age tend to forget that sometimes.

But when you make such statements I am still going to argue against them because common knowledge gives them weight to some if not most readers who I think would take them to mean what I say they mean.

Besides by getting you to clarify what you mean I turn your position-less post into one that essentially agrees with my viewpoint.

Right. That's called putting words in people's mouths. The formal logical term is "straw man". It's generally viewed as being underhanded, illogical, and offensive. If you want to try to go a different place with it, awesome, but it'd be appreciated if you stopped quoting me directly when you did it....you're then associating me with a position I didn't take and things I didn't say.

I had no idea that you were so against police shooting civilians or racial essentialism and I couldn't be happier to learn it since I have strong convictions towards both of those subjects.

And yet, I somehow managed to convey those things without identifying an "opponent" and misrepresenting their position to make my own point.

Have fun.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Me? Im indian.

Ha no the guy above that post. I know you're indian.

[Påsan]

Though I would say Scandinavians also have a pretty substantial history of being depicted as racists, and (until recently, when like India it has gotten attention from their governments) yet still actually did have a serious problem in the way their culture conceived of and treated the issue of rape

There has been modern governmental anti rape laws in Scandinavia since at least the 1300's, and the punishment was death. And women always had rights here, albeit not equal, they were never property. Scandinavia was a deeply christian and rural culture after the middle ages and rapes were frowned upon and akin to social suicide by the perpetrator. So what are you talking about? Surely you are not referring to Vikings here? Because after that there never has been a "rape culture" in Scandinavia.

And why do "Scandinavians have a history of being depicted as racists"?

As opposed to who? The Germans and Japanese have a history of racism, Americans and Brits have a history of racism, French, Dutch, Spain. Do you know which countries have not a history of Racism? Well Scandinavia is a good place to start looking for one.

[Enros]

Because after that there never has been a "rape culture" in Scandinavia.

Up until the 20th century women as a class were basically slaves in most of the world. There were only a few small places where that wasn't the case and Europe wasn't one of them.

There has been modern governmental anti rape laws in Scandinavia since at least the 1300's, and the punishment was death.

It was Christians who abolished rape laws in the Roman Empire.

[athanaric]

A racist got slapped down. Its a good outcome.

I have to say the balance between social problems and racism is a prickly one. There's racism against Indian people in Australia (not as bad as the stuff directed at Aborigines but there's no acceptable level). A lot of Indian students get jobs as taxi drivers where they are exploited by the bosses and beaten by some passengers.

We have had Indian diplomats and politicians lecturing Australia on democracy and discrimination and then we here there's a rape problem in India.

The outcome is a lot of people practising the silent racism Hannibal mentions. "You know" nod nod. This professor said and did what a lot of people imagine and mutter "the ought to...". It sends a good signal that she had to back down, she's lucky she wasn't sacked AFAIC.

I think it's less racism (although, those "progressive" types are always racist in one way or another), and more to do with the fact that Leipzig university is run by nutjobs. They recently changed the way all professors are adressed from the generic masculine form (Professor) to the explicitly female form (Professorin). That means male staff are addressed as women. I think we should henceforth disregard anything coming from these clowns as unscientific BS. The flawed logic of Ms Beck-Sickinger is a perfect example of this.

I also think there's a lot of cowardice and double standards involved. They'd never reject an Egyptian, Turk, or Iraqi for the same reason (even though rape culture is just as rampant in those countries), because the cries of "racism" and "islamophobia" would be deafening (not to mention the death threats). They are only "courageous" towards people from countries that don't put a fatwa and a price tag on your head if you offend them. Thus people from the US, or India, or Israel are fair game in their eyes, while those from countries with worse track records aren't bothered.

[chilon]

Sometimes, yep, I'm being sarcastic and don't intend to add anything substantive. I'm human.

"Being human" is not an excuse for posting WUM comments.

[tarvu]

There has been modern governmental anti rape laws in Scandinavia since at least the 1300's, and the punishment was death. And women always had rights here, albeit not equal, they were never property. Scandinavia was a deeply christian and rural culture after the middle ages and rapes were frowned upon and akin to social suicide by the perpetrator. So what are you talking about? Surely you are not referring to Vikings here? Because after that there never has been a "rape culture" in Scandinavia.

And why do "Scandinavians have a history of being depicted as racists"?

As opposed to who? The Germans and Japanese have a history of racism, Americans and Brits have a history of racism, French, Dutch, Spain. Do you know which countries have not a history of Racism? Well Scandinavia is a good place to start looking for one.

If you aren't aware of the controversy surrounding the rape laws in many Scandinavian countries that was highlighted during the 2000's then I am sure I can find some articles for you on the topic. The governments reformed many of their laws and are still in the process of
reforming others. it continues to be a major political topic in those countries and it is often the subject of various popular/acclaimed pieces of Scandinavian cinema and other art. Including I'm sure a few documentaries, my point was they faced their problem (obviously not all of the men there, some who would still deny there was ever a problem at all and who are waiting for their opportunity to take back their land from the Feminazi invasion).

My point was that it should serve as a lesson to India as a country who came under international scrutiny for its treatment of rape, and instead of denying the issue (again of course some did/do) actually sought out reform and discussion on the topic. And to India's credit I see it mostly doing this, but then you have a unique issue created by nationalism (much like Scandinavian nationalists) who get riled up at international condemnation and "hypocricy" and you have silly things happen like the banning of this documentary in India. The problem is tied to culture and society (just as it has practically every culture/society), but it is not an essential part of either that is how you reform society without attacking a people as a whole.

Like violence it is a problem, and it can be systemic and require a societal/cultural shift without necessarily being indicative of there being anything wrong "at the root" of a culture which could condemn it as a whole.

There was a thread on this forum about the Scandinavian rape issue which I posted on several times, perhaps you can just look back at those. As for racist I thought I typed rapist.

[Påsan]

If you aren't aware of the controversy surrounding the rape laws in many Scandinavian countries that was highlighted during the 2000's then I am sure I can find some articles for you on the topic. The governments reformed many of their laws and are still in the process of
reforming others. it continues to be a major political topic in those countries and it is often the subject of various popular/acclaimed pieces of Scandinavian cinema and other art. Including I'm sure a few documentaries, my point was they faced their problem (obviously not all of the men there, some who would still deny there was ever a problem at all and who are waiting for their opportunity to take back their land from the Feminazi invasion).

Yeah I have no idea what you are talking about. I cant remember anything about any rape laws. A few links would be nice.


The main controversy on the topic of rape in all my political aware life has always been how the immigrants and foreigners are grossly overrepresented in assault rape category.

"The typical assault rapists is a foreign man in his 20's while the typical rape victim is a Norwegian female in her 20's" - Norwegian police.

My point was that it should serve as a lesson to India as a country who came under international scrutiny for its treatment of rape, and instead of denying the issue (again of course some did/do) actually sought out reform and discussion on the topic. And to India's credit I see it mostly doing this, but then you have a unique issue created by nationalism (much like Scandinavian nationalists) who get riled up at international condemnation and "hypocricy" and you have silly things happen like the banning of this documentary in India. The problem is tied to culture and society (just as it has practically every culture/society), but it is not an essential part of either that is how you reform society without attacking a people as a whole.

Nationalism is rather irrelevant when you have a free press. Also I doubt the Scandinavian nationalism and the Indian nationalism share many values.

[The Gurkhan]

It should be noted the professor herself claims she has been completely misrepresented. She has simply apologized for offending Indian people regarding her remarks on their society. Not her reasons for refusing him entry.

She refuted the assumption that she turned down the young Indian student’s application for an internship because of the problem of violence against women in India. Professor Beck-Sickinger stated: "I never wrote the mail in this way, it has been put together from individual segments taken from different mails." She wrote to the student that there were no openings available in the laboratory and she stressed: "I do not reject students because of reasons of race or gender." Her comments were taken out of context, Beck-Sickinger said. "I am by no means racist or xenophobic in any way."

http://www.zv.uni-leipzig.de/service...l&ifab_id=5955

I don't (nor anybody else here as far as I know) have the original emails. So whom to believe? Hmmmm.

On a completely unrelated note.....yes Muzzies have it too easy. I mean they can like, rape anybody and still get a degree. imagine if he is an Indian Muslim?!
Thought I'd put that in because you know.......Islam....!!!!

[Nikitn]

It should be noted the professor herself claims she has been completely misrepresented. She has simply apologized for offending Indian people regarding her remarks on their society. Not her reasons for refusing him entry.




http://www.zv.uni-leipzig.de/service...l&ifab_id=5955

I don't (nor anybody else here as far as I know) have the original emails. So whom to believe? Hmmmm.

On a completely unrelated note.....yes Muzzies have it too easy. I mean they can like, rape anybody and still get a degree. imagine if he is an Indian Muslim?!
Thought I'd put that in because you know.......Islam....!!!!

Looks like the guy was just sore after being rejected. I mean, that professor would have to have been very eager to loose her job if she wrote "This Indian guy might rape my students" as the official reason for rejection. Racism is really frowned upon in Europe.

Yeah I have no idea what you are talking about. I cant remember anything about any rape laws. A few links would be nice.


The main controversy on the topic of rape in all my political aware life has always been how the immigrants and foreigners are grossly overrepresented in assault rape category.

"The typical assault rapists is a foreign man in his 20's while the typical rape victim is a Norwegian female in her 20's" - Norwegian police.

Mostly it's just FRP making a fuss about immigrants. By far the typical (assault or otherwise) rapist is a good old Norwegian party going male.

[Mangalore]

...
http://www.zv.uni-leipzig.de/service...l&ifab_id=5955

I don't (nor anybody else here as far as I know) have the original emails. So whom to believe? Hmmmm.

...

Quite frankly since professors can make up pretty much anything to reject an intern her going on a sociopolitical reasoning to justify it seems more than farfetched. I don't really see a professor wasting time on an e-mail discussion about such a decision, that actually points more to there being other reasons and she not being bothered to talk about other issues with the applicant.

[Col. Tartleton]

He should have come to America. We love Indians. We're slightly paranoid about Sikhs because we think they're Muslims and we don't really want more Pakistanis here but Hindu Indians are chill. They have good hair and smell like eastern spices. They're good at math and have funner British accents.

[hellheaven1987]

He should have come to America. We love Indians. We're slightly paranoid about Sikhs because we think they're Muslims and we don't really want more Pakistanis here but Hindu Indians are chill. They have good hair and smell like eastern spices. They're good at math and have funner British accents.

Americans cannot even distinct Pakistanis and Indians.

[mongrel]

I think it's less racism (although, those "progressive" types are always racist in one way or another), and more to do with the fact that Leipzig university is run by nutjobs. They recently changed the way all professors are adressed from the generic masculine form (Professor) to the explicitly female form (Professorin). That means male staff are addressed as women. I think we should henceforth disregard anything coming from these clowns as unscientific BS. The flawed logic of Ms Beck-Sickinger is a perfect example of this.

I also think there's a lot of cowardice and double standards involved. They'd never reject an Egyptian, Turk, or Iraqi for the same reason (even though rape culture is just as rampant in those countries), because the cries of "racism" and "islamophobia" would be deafening (not to mention the death threats). They are only "courageous" towards people from countries that don't put a fatwa and a price tag on your head if you offend them. Thus people from the US, or India, or Israel are fair game in their eyes, while those from countries with worse track records aren't bothered.

Anti-Islamic discourse in Europe is widespread, as evidenced in the many threads on the issue posted on this forum.

[athanaric]

Racism is really frowned upon in Europe.

At least you got that part right. The "Europe" part obviously excluding Putinreich here, of course.

Mostly it's just FRP making a fuss about immigrants. By far the typical (assault or otherwise) rapist is a good old Norwegian party going male.

Because you know Norway better than the Norwegian police does.

Anti-Islamic discourse in Europe is widespread, as evidenced in the many threads on the issue posted on this forum.

Yeah.... not in universities. Academics are very sensitive to the - real or imagined - grievances of Muslim students. Not so much India, which - apart from being a source of esoteric crap - is terra incognita to most people in Germany. There's hardly any news story on India, except for large scale catastrophes or rape scandals.

[mongrel]

Yeah.... not in universities. Academics are very sensitive to the - real or imagined - grievances of Muslim students. Not so much India, which - apart from being a source of esoteric crap - is terra incognita to most people in Germany. There's hardly any news story on India, except for large scale catastrophes or rape scandals.

I find that hard to imagine. People are free to talk about such stuff (see Pegida) except Universities, come on....

[Copperknickers II]

Wow, German female professor discriminating on racial grounds against an Indian male student based on massive overreaction to rape culture? It seems we have our first case of a literal FemiNazi.

Although I'm extremely skeptical about this student's account of what happened, he seems to have basically completely fabricated her alleged statement, so let's not pass judgment until we find out what she actually said, which it seems certain was rather far removed from what he claims even if she is a racist.

[leeho730]

Well, Indians always claimed Australia of racism after the assault on Indian students in 2009. It is thought to be one of the main reasons India didn't want former PM John Howard as the head of International Cricket Council (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1225887316829). Well Indians have been accusing Australians of racism (it's also funny that Indians make up two of the largest immigrant population in Australia, along with Chinese), but now it seems that they're getting the taste of their own medicine. Lol what goes around comes around.

[Nikitn]

At least you got that part right. The "Europe" part obviously excluding Putinreich here, of course.

Yeah, because the most multicultural country in Europe is also a racist one.. Let's try to separate propaganda and facts.

Because you know Norway better than the Norwegian police does.

It just so happens I speak fluent Norwegian, and I read parts of that report. They clearly put assault (it's a separate category) rapes way down on the list, with rapes at parties and rapes by romantic partner being far ahead. "Filthy Muslim raping pretty white girls" is typical overhyped nonsense spewed by the populist far-right. Sorry if this litle reality check doesn't fit with your world view.

[Kraut]

I don't (nor anybody else here as far as I know) have the original emails. So whom to believe? Hmmmm.

According to her Version, she rejected him on normal and reasonable grounds, then he started "a discussion about German society" (probably complaining about racism) and she replied like "Oh yeah? Says the guy from the rape culture?" or something like that. Then, she claims, the email was fabricated (copy and paste). Well, shouldn´t be too hard to prove this by making the original emails available, if it is true.

Probably just another case of "a moron and a lunatic walk into a bar..."