A Definitive Answer for Two Party Faction Civil Wars? -Do they even work?

[User29]

at 90% I was getting a civil war and at 65% I was getting a civil war. At first I thought huge power kept things in line, then I thought I read keeping it under 66 will keep things in line, what's the truth? Is it working at all? What's the dish?

Please do not bring up Rome or Carthage, This thread is for Every other faction.

[geala]

Don't know. I tried it with the less-civil-war mod or without. If there is a civil war chance, it will come sooner or later whatever you do. The influence or anything else don't seem to matter. That's my result. My civil war solution: when it comes, I reload.

[bogac94]

It works in vanilla. I didn't have to face a civil war in DeI. I had %70+ influence in Parthian campaign and civil war started

[Ygraine]

As Seleucid I have max imperium and around 65% / 35% in political balance without any civil war!

[az879]

It does not work. In dei the values for low/med/high chance is something like 65/55/45. The intention was to get cw when you have less than 65 influence but instead you get cw when you have higher then 65 influence. I edited my pack file to 85/90/95 influence. Apperently this is a bug.

[User29]

It does not work. In dei the values for low/med/high chance is something like 65/55/45. The intention was to get cw when you have less than 65 influence but instead you get cw when you have higher then 65 influence. I edited my pack file to 85/90/95 influence. Apperently this is a bug.

I've gotten a civil war at ~65
and at ~90 so shouldn't the one at 65 not have happened?

[az879]

I've gotten a civil war at ~65
and at ~90 so shouldn't the one at 65 not have happened?

At 64 you should not have any cw chance. Also chance to get cw gets unlocked at imp level 4, so before you cannot get cw at any influence. To fix this problem change the cw values yourself or use the spread rumors option to lose party support. I hope it will get an official fix soon.

[zonks40]

The way I fixed it was to increase the fame level for civil war to 100 for each, currently they are set at Imperium 4, 5 & 6, so now I only have civil wars if my influence is too low in the case of single power factions.

[Matmannen]

It is broken, let me explain how:

In vanilla (after Emporer Edition): Civi lwar chance is dictated through the faction political control, the more control the higher civil war chance. Higher imperium gives a smaller threshold, making the balance harder to keep.

In DeI: The devs tried to edit it making so that high control gives more stability (that is lesser civil war chance) while low control raises civil war chance. That totally broke the system though and now civil war isn't decided by control but only by imperium. When you reach a cerain imperium. If I remember from my parthia campaign (during this entire campaign I had very high control, above civil war chance being possible) it went something like this:

Imperium 4 Low civi lwar chance
Imperium 6 Medium civil war chance
Imperium 8 High civil war chance

I have no idea why they broke it or why they haven't fixed it. But the bug pisses me of...

[az879]

It is broken, let me explain how:...

To add to this and my previous posts so the bug discription is clear:

In vanilla and multi party the cw chance for low/med/high is (for example) 60/70/80. The more influnce the more cw chance.

For single party (for example) 65/55/45. The intention was to give higher chance at lower influnce but instead the game reads it as when you have 65 or more influnce you get a cw chance. This should be changed to something like 85/90/95.

At certain imp levels the max cw chance gets unocked as stated by matmannen. So when you have 70 influence you get only a cw chance when you are imp 4 or higher.

I hope that the team fix this soon.

[Dakirin]

First, there are at least 4-5 threads on this subject in the past 2-3 months, so you can read those for more details on the subject. I recommend this: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ight=civil+war

In DeI there are 2 triggers for Civil War – imperium level and influence (details in Scriptorium). What this leads to is that after imperium 4 you have 1% chance of CW every turn, no matter of the influence level. Statistically that means that after 100 turns you should have CW once. Now, some people are lucky and don’t get one, while others get 2 or more. For imperium 5 is 2%, for imperium 6 is 3%.

I find the choice of the developers to have at least 1% chance of rebellion as welcomed, making the game more realistic and challenging. Same as not having a 100% chance of success for an agent, you can not be 100% free of rebellions no matter how good you’re governing your empire. Still, I would recommend Krixux sub-mod for less CW, which decreases the impact of a civil war.

Because there are 2 triggers, the CW meter is deceptive. The meter will change to low/medium/high chance as soon as the imperium gets to 4 or higher. On the other hand it seems that if the influence threshold gets to min or max, the game “resets” the meter based on the influence – so for example if you are at imperium 4 and the meter shows low chance of CW and you get to 100% influence for single party (all except Rome and Carthage in GC), the meter will change to no chance of CW, even if you still have the low chance (1%) from the imperium level. Then, when you reach level 5 imperium, the meter will “reset” again showing medium chance (2%). So my recommendation is to ignore the meter. Just rely on imperium level and your influence situation to assess the chance of CW.

I think that the best solution to have less ambiguity, is for developers to edit the tooltip of the CW meter, adding that also imperium level increases the chance and also edit the tooltip of imperium level to add the percentages in which they do.

If you still don’t want any CW I think there is a sub-mod which does that, or easier, as stated earlier in the thread, reload the autosave of the previous turn … and roll the dice again.

EDIT: looking through the files the percentages that I stated initially are based on an easy campaign. For a hard campaign - imperium 4 - 2%, imperium 5 - 4%, imperium 6 - 7%. So that means statistically for imperium 4 you have a chance to a CW every 50 turns and for imperium 6 every 14 turns. If you use less CW sub-mod, you get 1% chance for all difficulties.

[User29]

So I read your post and the linked post and I've prett much come to the conclusion no one has any idea why it is working the way it is. But let me try to sum it up and you can say how close or far I am.

-Stay below 65%

-The Civil War Bar "low medium high" is useless?

-The mod makers(while I love the mod) have bungled it up by making it unreadable to a regular player and if you're not playing Rome you HAVE to have civil wars no matter how well you play the political game.

This is actually really upsetting to me since they never said in that thread they will be fixing it. My Non Rome Carthage games(i.e. ALL) are broken forcing me to save reload if I get a civil war? I hate save/reloads, I'd rather get a civil war cause I failed to play the game right, got too much or too little influence, but instead I just get a random "Oops you have a civil war cause of reasons"

If a dev is reading this I love you guys to death but this needs to be in your top 5 to do list, this greatly, Greatly affects playing the game more than adding or changing a faction or units being added.

[Dakirin]

So I read your post and the linked post and I've prett much come to the conclusion no one has any idea why it is working the way it is. But let me try to sum it up and you can say how close or far I am.

-Stay below 65%

-The Civil War Bar "low medium high" is useless?

-The mod makers(while I love the mod) have bungled it up by making it unreadable to a regular player and if you're not playing Rome you HAVE to have civil wars no matter how well you play the political game.

This is actually really upsetting to me since they never said in that thread they will be fixing it. My Non Rome Carthage games(i.e. ALL) are broken forcing me to save reload if I get a civil war? I hate save/reloads, I'd rather get a civil war cause I failed to play the game right, got too much or too little influence, but instead I just get a random "Oops you have a civil war cause of reasons"

If a dev is reading this I love you guys to death but this needs to be in your top 5 to do list, this greatly, Greatly affects playing the game more than adding or changing a faction or units being added.

I never said to stay under 65%. I read that theory in another thread but I don't think it is accurate. You play the influence "game" as stated in the Scriptorium.

The second trigger - imperium level (which I updated in my original post) is the one that messes with the CW chance and is not visible in-game anywhere, that's why I made that recomandation for the tooltips.

The CW bar is useless - my assumption is that it was ment in vanilla to read only 1 trigger - influence. Because DeI has 2 triggers, the game modifies it only based on the last trigger that was changed, which leads to situations like the one I described in my last post.

To sum up - if you have the influence in the right spot, you will still have a chance of CW of 2% for imp 4, 4% for imp 5 and 7% for imp 6 and onwards, for a hard campaign.

[Dresden]

Our intention was to improve the system, but obviously that may not be possible. If having it set at 65 creates a low chance for all levels above 65, then it is indeed something that needs to be fixed. I will probably end up settings the values to vanilla for now and see how that works.

Also, in vanilla imperium level also creates civil war chance.

Edit: Here is a fix pack until I can get an update for the main mod: http://www.mediafire.com/download/z2...vilwarFix.pack

Please let me know how it works, I would like a few tests before I add it to the mod itself.

[User29]

I never said to stay under 65%. I read that theory in another thread but I don't think it is accurate. You play the influence "game" as stated in the Scriptorium.

The second trigger - imperium level (which I updated in my original post) is the one that messes with the CW chance and is not visible in-game anywhere, that's why I made that recomandation for the tooltips.

The CW bar is useless - my assumption is that it was ment in vanilla to read only 1 trigger - influence. Because DeI has 2 triggers, the game modifies it only based on the last trigger that was changed, which leads to situations like the one I described in my last post.

To sum up - if you have the influence in the right spot, you will still have a chance of CW of 2% for imp 4, 4% for imp 5 and 7% for imp 6 and onwards, for a hard campaign.

never said you said that, My dashes were my understanding from your response AND the linked post.

So I can at best lower my chances to 2-7%? or does it get even worse with even higher imperium? That's... kinda dumb, the game can't be played to avoid Civil War then. Unless you can explain what you mean by "the right spot" Basically,

WHAT IS THE RIGHT SPOT?!

I completely understand that Imperium is giving me a stupid bar that I can't prevent by playing well, but this "sweet spot" stuff is completely confusing me, I don't understand where the sweet spot is, a bunch of people have a bunch of different answers.

Our intention was to improve the system, but obviously that may not be possible. If having it set at 65 creates a low chance for all levels above 65, then it is indeed something that needs to be fixed. I will probably end up settings the values to vanilla for now and see how that works.

Also, in vanilla imperium level also creates civil war chance.

Edit: Here is a fix pack until I can get an update for the main mod: http://www.mediafire.com/download/z2...vilwarFix.pack

Please let me know how it works, I would like a few tests before I add it to the mod itself.

I really hope you don't feel that I was trying to attack you guys, It's more of an annoyance of my own ignorance than towards you guys, I really appreciate you making a submod on the spot and everything, I do hope you can implement the changes you were going for instead of being forced back to vanilla forever, Thanks again.

Update: upon restarting the game in my Saka Campaign my Medium Civil War Chance at 61% was immediately replaced with No Civil War chance. Awesome instant update

[Dakirin]

never said you said that, My dashes were my understanding from your response AND the linked post.

So I can at best lower my chances to 2-7%? or does it get even worse with even higher imperium? That's... kinda dumb, the game can't be played to avoid Civil War then. Unless you can explain what you mean by "the right spot" Basically,

WHAT IS THE RIGHT SPOT?!

I completely understand that Imperium is giving me a stupid bar that I can't prevent by playing well, but this "sweet spot" stuff is completely confusing me, I don't understand where the sweet spot is, a bunch of people have a bunch of different answers.



I really hope you don't feel that I was trying to attack you guys, It's more of an annoyance of my own ignorance than towards you guys, I really appreciate you making a submod on the spot and everything, I do hope you can implement the changes you were going for instead of being forced back to vanilla forever, Thanks again.

Update: upon restarting the game in my Saka Campaign my Medium Civil War Chance at 61% was immediately replaced with No Civil War chance. Awesome instant update

I linked that thread so you can read Dresden posts and not other people theories.
To make it simpler – if you don’t like to have CW very often – use the sub-mod.

Our intention was to improve the system, but obviously that may not be possible. If having it set at 65 creates a low chance for all levels above 65, then it is indeed something that needs to be fixed. I will probably end up settings the values to vanilla for now and see how that works.

Also, in vanilla imperium level also creates civil war chance.

Edit: Here is a fix pack until I can get an update for the main mod: http://www.mediafire.com/download/z2...vilwarFix.pack

Please let me know how it works, I would like a few tests before I add it to the mod itself.

Dresden in my opinion you should leave them as they are, but make the tooltips in-game so people know that imperium also has a chance of triggering CW.

I haven’t play vanilla in a very long time and don’t watch the forums for it, so I don’t know if people are complaining about this thing. If somebody played a few campaigns in vanilla after Emperor Edition or knows if this happens also there, then would be helpful to find out if it is a bug or not.

The table that contains the values for CW has them set differently for single factions and multi-factions – is the maximal value for single factions and minimal for multi-factions.

1. IF the game engine knows to read them as minimal value and up and maximal value and down, than the CW in DeI are triggered by imperium level, which can be solved very easy with Krixux less CW sub-mod, for those that want less Civil War.
2. IF the engine reads both values as minimal, then is a bug in the game engine and DeI might “trick” it by setting minimal values for both.

Based on my experience I think it is not a bug, but the CW is triggered by imperium level. As soon as I started to use the sub-mod (which can be done mid-campaign), I still had CW but at lower rates and with less impact.

[Goffredo85]

Dresden what does this fix actually do?

[az879]

Dresden what does this fix actually do?

It sets cw influence levels back to vanilla levels. Take a look at post #5 in this thread.

[Mithridates II the Great]

I didn't have civil war in my campaign as Rome that lasted 700 turns .

Its weird

[User29]

I didn't have civil war in my campaign as Rome that lasted 700 turns .

Its weird

Rome isn't a two party faction