15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

[Påsan]

I think I've never met a person of my age interested in History that was not also a fantasy fan. It sort of comes with the territory. Since you know.. Fantasy is just alternative world history.


There is no History fans vs Fantasy fans rivalry. Why would there be? I'm a massive history fan, Massive fantasy fan. Which side am I on now? Huberto?


Now, more like People-who-dont-like-warhammer vs people-who-like-warhammer, that is something I can see happen. Just never think of yourself as the "history buffs" cus that's bullcrap.

[englisharcher89]

I think I've never met a person of my age interested in History that was not also a fantasy fan. It sort of comes with the territory. Since you know.. Fantasy is just alternative world history.


There is no History fans vs Fantasy fans rivalry. Why would there be? I'm a massive history fan, Massive fantasy fan. Which side am I on now? Huberto?


Now, more like People-who-dont-like-warhammer vs people-who-like-warhammer, that is something I can see happen. Just never think of yourself as the "history buffs" cus that's bullcrap.

So much this. I'll back you up on this opinion, because I share it with you. I've spend good time with history reenactors and they all love fantasy, and know about Warhammer...

[IlluminatiRex]

I won't click on the link because it's about Borehammer and I have no interest. Trust me there's no rivalry. Just a massive wall of not caring about WH. Just as you've apparently had zero interest in participating in this forum until WH was all but confirmed

yeah, any sort of point you had is completely lost imo when you decided to go insulting Warhammer. Like I said earlier, I know absolutely nothing about Warhammer, but I'm always willing to go into things with a fresh and open mind, so Warhammer seems like an interesting topic for CA and Total War to cover. You know, giving things a chance.

And I took a look at that video, and that game (Warhammer: Mark of Chaos) and is essentially Total War, at least in terms of how units and such are handled.

Even then, CA shouldn't be chained to one thing because thats what some of the fans want, it's best to let them try new things, otherwise the games get stale for both fans and the developers. Can you imagine making the same thing over and over again? It would be a bore, the passion would eventually evaporate. Which is why I applaud CA in both doing Alien: Isolation (while it was a different team than the Total War development team, it's good to see CA diversifying) and the soon to be Total War: Warhammer.

[cenkiss]

I won't click on the link because it's about Borehammer and I have no interest. Trust me there's no rivalry. Just a massive wall of not caring about WH. Just as you've apparently had zero interest in participating in this forum until WH was all but confirmed.

Of course there are people who want fantasy and historical versions of TW, but they are a minority. In terms of releases, it is absolutely a zero sum game, which is my point. There won't be WH games released alongside historical games because if there were, both games would suffer greatly for lack of attention by the development team. And if Warhammer's fan base loves spending money on WH, then CA will be your BFF, not mine.

You are being ridiculous. Making age of mythology did not age of empires 3. And age of mythology was just loved by everyone. It was a good game. Why do you think CA will forget how to make historical games?

[ToonTotalWar]

I remember a cheesy horror/porn movie back in the 80's called "whorehammer" I think that will still be more entertaining than the next TW game! Hehehe

[ToonTotalWar]

I think I've never met a person of my age interested in History that was not also a fantasy fan. It sort of comes with the territory. Since you know.. Fantasy is just alternative world history.


There is no History fans vs Fantasy fans rivalry. Why would there be? I'm a massive history fan, Massive fantasy fan. Which side am I on now? Huberto?


Now, more like People-who-dont-like-warhammer vs people-who-like-warhammer, that is something I can see happen. Just never think of yourself as the "history buffs" cus that's bullcrap.

How can you make that statement?? I am sorry I do not believe in that there are more fans who are into both genres of history and fantasy based games. I think you are in a minority as my opinion is that they are two different persona who are into either "history" or "fantasy" based games and the person who is into both is a very small minority.

I mix with a bunch of historians here in Newcastle and I can tell you now that none of them would even contemplate playing a fantasy based PC game like so many other members that I know here on TWC!

if warhammer is so popular why are the retail stores always empty???? Who plays these games as the stores are certainly not making any money as I have recently visited Edinburgh, Birmingham and Newcastle stores and there was not one person in the stores apart from staff playing the game in store??

I think maybe make poll to see what the results are? And if I am proved wrong then fair comment but I believe I will probably be correct with my assumptions.

[HigoChumbo]

I think I've never met a person of my age interested in History that was not also a fantasy fan. It sort of comes with the territory. Since you know.. Fantasy is just alternative world history.

It's even simpler than that. There is a common denominator that both history and fantasy fans (which are often the same person) share, and that is romanticism (in a nostalgic way).

Modern wargaming and fantasy were created by such people. There are people here saying that people who like fantasy and history are not the same... let me remind you that most of the people who created fantasy works are actually history freaks giving a more romantic take on it but with a heavy historical inspiration. If not, just go check A Song of Ice and Fire... the books are loaded with historical inspiration.

Hell, Warhammer itself shows a huge ammount of historical references... even in their more fantastic factions (such as lizardmen being mayans/aztecs/incas or the tomb kings being egyptians).

The people who did all that spent tons of hours researching history.

[ToonTotalWar]

yeah, any sort of point you had is completely lost imo when you decided to go insulting Warhammer. Like I said earlier, I know absolutely nothing about Warhammer, but I'm always willing to go into things with a fresh and open mind, so Warhammer seems like an interesting topic for CA and Total War to cover. You know, giving things a chance.

And I took a look at that video, and that game (Warhammer: Mark of Chaos) and is essentially Total War, at least in terms of how units and such are handled.

Even then, CA shouldn't be chained to one thing because thats what some of the fans want, it's best to let them try new things, otherwise the games get stale for both fans and the developers. Can you imagine making the same thing over and over again? It would be a bore, the passion would eventually evaporate. Which is why I applaud CA in both doing Alien: Isolation (while it was a different team than the Total War development team, it's good to see CA diversifying) and the soon to be Total War: Warhammer.

I take on board your observations but if CA had put more care and attention into producing there games that are playable rather than beta games which then take another year to patch to make at least a partial playable game they would have more respect from there consumer/community!

Rome 2 was rushed to market and it should have been the best total war release! and now they have ditched the game to concentrate on Attila, totally unacceptable in my opinion.

My point is that Huberto is just been passionate with his observations and like me he is disappointed with the outcome of these partially finished games that CA are now producing!

[ToonTotalWar]

It's even simpler than that. There is a common denominator that both history and fantasy fans (which are often the same person) share, and that is romanticism (in a nostalgic way).

Modern wargaming and fantasy were created by such people. There are people here saying that people who like fantasy and history are not the same... let me remind you that most of the people who created fantasy works are actually history freaks giving a more romantic take on it but with a heavy historical inspiration. If not, just go check A Song of Ice and Fire... the books are loaded with historical inspiration.

Hell, Warhammer itself shows a huge ammount of historical references... even in their more fantastic factions (such as lizardmen being mayans/aztecs/incas or the tomb kings being egyptians).

The people who did all that spent tons of hours researching history.

Totally disagree! I have been studying history for 30 years and at no stage have I been urged to start going down any fantasy route for inspiration! Such as Lord of the Rings, Warhammer, game of thrones etc...all this stuff is just fantasy that people dream of and then implement into books, movies, games etc..I understand there is a consumer for this product but there is no inspiration from history in this genre.

The real world is "history" and that is what I want to learn from and it inspires me in my day to day life and decisions I make.

[Humble Warrior]

I know a little about Warhammer as my friends were well into the tabletop game. I was well in table top and rpgs as well, but Warhammer simply did not grab me. There were a dozen better fantasy games out inmho.

So, as you may guess I can`t be ridiculously overjoyed at this news since I never was, even in the 1980s!!

Personally, there are not enough historical based games out there while there are loads of fantasy. I already have Age of Wonders 3 which is enough.

However this trend was predicted years ago in movies and now we got dozens of silly fantasy games here, and now CA are doing it. Death of CA gaming as far as I`m concerned. But at least they can do as much unrealistic nonsense as they want and they won`t hear a peep from me about ahistorical crap sieges- CA must be relieved about that!

[ToonTotalWar]

I know a little about Warhammer as my friends were well into the tabletop game. I was well in table top and rpgs as well, but Warhammer simply did not grab me. There were a dozen better fantasy games out inmho.

So, as you may guess I can`t be ridiculously overjoyed at this news since I never was, even in the 1980s!!

Personally, there are not enough historical based games out there while there are loads of fantasy. I already have Age of Wonders 3 which is enough.

However this trend was predicted years ago in movies and now we got dozens of silly fantasy games here, and now CA are doing it. Death of CA gaming as far as I`m concerned. But at least they can do as much unrealistic nonsense as they want and they won`t hear a peep from me about ahistorical crap sieges- CA must be relieved about that!

Well said mate! We must be of the same generation.

I played table top war games from Napoleonic, Ancient era and Vietnam before I got into PC games into the mid nineties! Making executive decisions on a battlefield with what is your next move against your opponent was a great kick for me.

I just cannot see the same passion in ordering a band of orcs to fight some trees having the same effect!

[Huberto]

Just to be clear I like TES as a game and found LotR some what interesting although I'm not a big fantasy fan obviously. Warhammer leaves me cold -- probably because its dress up pretend history but the point I'm trying to make is about Total War, the video game series. It's depressing to contemplate Total War becoming fantasy is for those of us who've been trying to yank it in a more historical-realistic direction.

Sure, we can quibble about whether WH is fantasy or a simulacrum of history or whether TW games to date are really historical. But historical strategy games model actual historical events - the good ones, anyway. This requires more than mastering fantasy lore however arcane and detailed it may be.

Also, I understand that some people who love history are re-enactors (they wear costumes and pretend, etc.). Most people that love history don't. Most of us read books, talk, watch shows.

[ToonTotalWar]

Well I think a simple poll will define who is who on TWC and what there thoughts are on the next title!

1. history
2. fantasy
3. Both

Simple really, will be interesting to see the results

[Tartknocker]

I won't click on the link because it's about Borehammer and I have no interest. Trust me there's no rivalry. Just a massive wall of not caring about WH. Just as you've apparently had zero interest in participating in this forum until WH was all but confirmed.

Except my join date is early 2012 long before warhammer was even hinted at and I probably have more time in the the various games of the TW series than you ever will. Hasty assumptions are not the mark of an even handed critical thinker.

Of course there are people who want fantasy and historical versions of TW, but they are a minority. In terms of releases, it is absolutely a zero sum game, which is my point. There won't be WH games released alongside historical games because if there were, both games would suffer greatly for lack of attention by the development team. And if Warhammers fan base loves spending money on WH, then CA will be your BFF, not mine.

On this forum, sure, but the warhammer/fantasy community as a whole - many of whom would be very likely to take a look at a decent looking fantasy based strategy game - is much larger and would bring many new players into the franchise. Your last statement is provably false as CA has already made Alien Isolation alongside other games and has already stated they have enitirely new teams working on various projects simultaneously. You sound like a spoiled 16 year old who doesn't want any other children to have a cookie because you think it means yours will disappear. CA isn't going to start adding Dragons and Witch Elves into Empire 2 because they made a fantasy game inbetween, get ahold of yourself ffs.

[Huberto]

Your last statement is provably false as CA has already made Alien Isolation alongside other games and has already stated they have enitirely new teams working on various projects simultaneously. You sound like a spoiled 16 year old who doesn't want any other children to have a cookie because you think it means yours will disappear. CA isn't going to start adding Dragons and Witch Elves into Empire 2 because they made a fantasy game inbetween, get ahold of yourself ffs.

But you're wrong. It's already confirmed as Total War: Warhammer. Alien Isolation isn't a Total War title, it's a console title, and a different operation entirely. The Total War team is making WH. You're going to get a standard TW game for WH with 20 unit stacks etc. and it won't be anything like Alien: Isolation. Beyond that you are absolutely right I don't want CA to waste good historical game development time on a fantasy game.

Except my join date is early 2012 long before warhammer was even hinted at and I probably have more time in the the various games of the TW series than you ever will. Hasty assumptions are not the mark of an even handed critical thinker.

2012 was the year that:

Creative Assembly™, award-winning creator of the Total War™ series, and SEGA® Group have entered into a multi-title licensing deal with Games Workshop® to create videogames based in the Warhammer® universe of fantasy battles.

[josak]

Absolutely not on-board for a fantasy tw game. That just isn't what Total War is about -- one of the things that set the series apart was it's focus on real history. I feel like they just got on track with Attila also, which so far is a huge step in the right direction with so many improvements. I was hoping they'd build off of that into Medieval 3 or something like that. The fantasy stuff is a mistake for the series imo, and probably kills any interest I have in these games.

[Sharpe]

But I want Knights and Orcs and Bloodthirsters.

Think of the voice acting

[IlluminatiRex]

Absolutely not on-board for a fantasy tw game. That just isn't what Total War is about -- one of the things that set the series apart was it's focus on real history. I feel like they just got on track with Attila also, which so far is a huge step in the right direction with so many improvements. I was hoping they'd build off of that into Medieval 3 or something like that. The fantasy stuff is a mistake for the series imo, and probably kills any interest I have in these games.

One) They're still going to be doing history games.
Two) They're still going to be doing history games.
Three) They're still going to be doing history games.

Also, Total War is about leading armies in real time tactical battles, while managing an empire in a turn based campaign mode. The setting is just conveniently History. I'm glad to see CA branching out.

[lolIsuck]

But you're wrong. It's already confirmed as Total War: Warhammer. Alien Isolation isn't a Total War title, it's a console title, and a different operation entirely. The Total War team is making WH. You're going to get a standard TW game for WH with 20 unit stacks etc. and it won't be anything like Alien: Isolation. Beyond that you are absolutely right I don't want CA to waste good historical game development time on a fantasy game.

A Total War team is making Warhammer Total War. As far as I know there are multiple teams working on different projects. There's also teams working on that Battles: Kingdom game, Total War Arena and Attila, even Rome 2, so just because it has Total War attached to it doesn't mean it will be like the main Total War games or will affect the development of the main Total War series. We don't even have specifics on the Warhammer title yet so stating that we're going to get the standard TW game for Warhammer is pure speculation. Didn't some guy at CA recently state in an interview that the main TW title will always be "historical"?

[Huberto]

The setting is just conveniently History.

It's interesting this is what the Warhammer fanboys all seem to be saying. While I disagree, the historical setting is the purpose of play to me. Take the history away and it's *crickets* just another dumb video game.