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Thread: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

  1. #301
    Sharpe's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    Historically inspired fantasy ala LOTR and GOT is usually very popular with fans of history, even 'casual fans' who like Romans because of their armour or because of the film Gladiator have some affiliation with it.

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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    Who's "We"

    Last time I checked the most popular mod ever produced on TWC was a LotR mod. There is also a Game of Thrones and oh.. a popular Warhammer mod.
    The difference and it's crucial is that those are MODS. Not full release titles by CA. I love the idea of LotR for Medieval II just as much as I love the fact that CA didn't do it.

    I'm not claiming to speak for everyone, but you need to accept that people who love history love it more than Game of Thrones. And you will see when the Attila poll is released how many folks deeply resent WH coming to TW.

    We've lost a year or perhaps longer. We could have had Total War: Three Kingdoms or Empire II or Medieval Europe. Instead it's orcs and elves and playing dress up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tartknocker View Post
    This has already been gone over a number of times talking about having multiple teams, etc. Even if they did "waste" time, it would be no different than them making any other title because there will always be people that skip one due to lack of interest in the time period etc. It's impossible to please everyone.
    Sure there will be separate teams. But the overwhelmingly large one will be all-in making WH. It cannot be otherwise the undertaking is too immense. And yes it is impossible to please everyone, but history fans will always be more pleased by TW historical games than fantasy games.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tartknocker View Post
    As a non historical title, it has no bearing on what direction CA takes with any of their historical titles anymore than Alien: Isolation does. Acting like CA is going to start putting skeleton warriors and chaos demons into the next historical title because they had them in Warhammer is needless alarmism. This is coming from somebody that hated the streamlined arcade style icons and abilities in Rome 2. That's a gameplay/design issue.
    But you should also recognize that Alien isn't Total War and Warhammer is, and that, in the interests of economies of scale, WH will influence the historical games, just as the historical TW will influence WH, just not in the obviously silly way you describe.

    But what I am actually talking about in terms of subtraction, and this is a killer, is the immense diversion of Total war team resources into the world of Warhammer, as opposed to the world of Ancient China, or Renaissance Europe, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tartknocker View Post
    Scroll down, there's a Warhammer 40k subforum on this very page. The two communities are a lot closer than you would like to admit, I'm afraid. If you don't like something you don't have to take part in it, violent reactions and feigned righteous outrage are trademarks of the immature.
    There are a lot of subforums on this page, including ones for CK II, TeS, etc. It's great to have WH mods and WH fans, especially in places where I don't have to read or look at their stuff. Again, the issue is the Total War series developed by CA.
    Last edited by Huberto; March 16, 2015 at 11:09 AM.

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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    Well crappy reenactor costumes besides (I think he's supposed to be this dude. Not sure), Warhammer 'aint known for its realistic porpotions. Some of the stuff can get pretty flamboyant. Better get used to it.
    Well, it`s fantasy. And I actually don`t mind fantasy sometimes. I just know not to get it mixed up with reality.

    But even in fantasy, I like things to make logical sense. A uniform should look like its wearable and a long sword should never be on your back for instance.
    Last edited by Humble Warrior; March 16, 2015 at 11:00 AM.

  4. #304
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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    Well crappy reenactor costumes besides (I think he's supposed to be this dude. Not sure), Warhammer 'aint known for its realistic porpotions. Some of the stuff can get pretty flamboyant. Better get used to it.
    Nope the actor got two chaos stars on his shoulders, maybe a Anointed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by riskymonk View Post
    yea but mods are created by fans of the series. Games are created by university students who might not necessarily know or play the games/series they're working on

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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    Quote Originally Posted by Huberto View Post
    The difference and it's crucial is that those are MODS. Not full release titles by CA. I love the idea of LotR for Medieval II just as much as I love the fact that CA didn't do it.

    I'm not claiming to speak for everyone, but you need to accept that people who love history love it more than Game of Thrones. And you will see when the Attila poll is released how many folks deeply resent WH coming to TW.

    We've lost a year or perhaps longer. We could have had Total War: Three Kingdoms or Empire II or Medieval Europe. Instead it's orcs and elves and playing dress up.
    Sure there will be separate teams. But the overwhelmingly large one will be all-in making WH. It cannot be otherwise the undertaking is too immense. And yes it is impossible to please everyone, but history fans will always be more pleased by TW historical games than fantasy games.


    But you should also recognize that Alien isn't Total War and Warhammer is, and that, in the interests of economies of scale, WH will influence the historical games, just as the historical TW will influence WH, just not in the obviously silly way you describe.

    But what I am actually talking about in terms of subtraction, and this is a killer, is the immense diversion of Total war team resources into the world of Warhammer, as opposed to the world of Ancient China, or Renaissance Europe, etc.

    There are a lot of subforums on this page, including ones for CK II, TeS, etc. It's great to have WH mods and WH fans, especially in places where I don't have to read or look at their stuff. Again, the issue is the Total War series developed by CA.
    Yeah but that's just you.

    Think of all the new fans that will be attracted and will get to enjoy the series. Maybe they will even try the old games and enjoy them too. I think you're being selfish, which you are entitled to be because at the end of the day it's what you want from a series that matters as an individual. But I've always thought it's a better attitude to accept the reality. It seems at this point you are trying to convey that people who will enjoy the forthcoming game are "immature", "silly", "playing dress up" and you kinda sound like a tit.

  6. #306
    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    Historical reenacting is costume play.

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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpe View Post
    Yeah but that's just you.

    Think of all the new fans that will be attracted and will get to enjoy the series. Maybe they will even try the old games and enjoy them too. I think you're being selfish, which you are entitled to be because at the end of the day it's what you want from a series that matters as an individual. But I've always thought it's a better attitude to accept the reality. It seems at this point you are trying to convey that people who will enjoy the forthcoming game are "immature", "silly", "playing dress up" and you kinda sound like a tit.
    Notice it is the same people who didn't like rome 2.
    Those who already is lost to the series.

    As I said why worry the old titles go no were?

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    Quote Originally Posted by riskymonk View Post
    yea but mods are created by fans of the series. Games are created by university students who might not necessarily know or play the games/series they're working on

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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpe View Post
    Think of all the new fans that will be attracted and will get to enjoy the series. Maybe they will even try the old games and enjoy them too. I think you're being selfish, which you are entitled to be because at the end of the day it's what you want from a series that matters as an individual. But I've always thought it's a better attitude to accept the reality. It seems at this point you are trying to convey that people who will enjoy the forthcoming game are "immature", "silly", "playing dress up" and you kinda sound like a tit.
    Absolutely I am being judgmental and making distinctions here. I think games about history and historical conflicts or military campaigns are more worthwhile, not just as entertainment either, because Its more worthwhile to have teenagers immersed in world history than the world of warhammer. And while WH or TeS or LotR may be a parable in some people's minds for actual real history, there is, in the end, no substitute for learning about the real thing. And that often means being inspired through games and books etc.. In a market saturated with fantasy here with TW we have a little bit of history -- and popular at that! Besides like Toon I'm an old git and the people who played D&D back in my school days were the weirdos. We played the Avalon Hill board games and we were cool.
    Last edited by Huberto; March 16, 2015 at 12:16 PM.

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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    Quote Originally Posted by Huberto View Post
    Absolutely I am being judgmental and making distinctions here. I think games about history and historical conflicts or military campaigns are more worthwhile, not just as entertainment either, because Its more worthwhile to have teenagers immersed in world history than the world of warhammer. And while WH or TeS or LotR may be a parable in some people's minds for actual real history, there is, in the end, no substitute for learning about the real thing. And that often means being inspired through games and books etc.. In a market saturated with fantasy here with TW we have a little bit of history -- and popular at that! Besides like Toon I'm an old git and the people who played D&D back in my school days were the weirdos. We played the Avalon Hill board games and we were cool.
    Well said mate and 100% factual and true!! Had a tear in my eye when you mentioned Avalon Hill board games!! I need to raid my parents home and get those out of the loft!!

    yeah the D&D players were a bit weird and geeky!!

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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    Quote Originally Posted by ToonTotalWar View Post
    Well said mate and 100% factual and true!! Had a tear in my eye when you mentioned Avalon Hill board games!! I need to raid my parents home and get those out of the loft!!

    yeah the D&D players were a bit weird and geeky!!
    Avalon Hill -> Normal people

    D&D -> Weird geeks.

    Last edited by Sharpe; March 16, 2015 at 12:33 PM.

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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpe View Post
    Avalon Hill -> Normal people

    D&D -> Weird geeks.

    actually at this point there is no point discussing with these two. They claim WH is so "immature" while on the other hand, what they say doesn't sound mature at all. After reading great novel "Vampire Wars" wouldn't say WH is for kids, and never claimed that, Warcraft yes it's for younger, maybe people still confuse it... I don't know. Maybe for them Diablo II will be for kids as well .

  12. #312
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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    Quote Originally Posted by Huberto View Post
    The difference and it's crucial is that those are MODS. Not full release titles by CA. I love the idea of LotR for Medieval II just as much as I love the fact that CA didn't do it.

    I'm not claiming to speak for everyone, but you need to accept that people who love history love it more than Game of Thrones.
    Jesus. "People who love history" Am I part of that or not? Or am I disqualified because I'm not throwing a fit about not having a historical TW game? Is it impossible to love History and enjoy a fantasy TW game? Are you the emperor of history fans? I'm so confused.


    We've lost a year or perhaps longer. We could have had Total War: Three Kingdoms or Empire II or Medieval Europe. Instead it's orcs and elves and playing dress up.
    [/QUOTE]
    While a well balanced person accepts that not always things goes his way. Honestly I'd rather have a 1600's 30 years war based total war than a Warhammer game. However since that's where the train is going I don't see any reason to throw a fit since my first choice was not selected. Rather, as the TW fan I am, "What new things can a warhammer game bring to this franchise?" Answer: "Plenty"

    I have little interests in pre-modern Japanese history, so I never bought Shogun 2. I suppose you will have to do the same as me and sit this one out. However I never complained for not getting what I want as much as you do though.
    Last edited by Påsan; March 16, 2015 at 01:27 PM.

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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    Jesus. "People who love history" Am I part of that or not? Or am I disqualified because I'm not throwing a fit about not having a historical TW game? Is it impossible to love History and enjoy a fantasy TW game? Are you the emperor of history fans? I'm so confused.
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    Quote Originally Posted by riskymonk View Post
    yea but mods are created by fans of the series. Games are created by university students who might not necessarily know or play the games/series they're working on

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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpe View Post
    Historically inspired fantasy ala LOTR and GOT is usually very popular with fans of history, even 'casual fans' who like Romans because of their armour or because of the film Gladiator have some affiliation with it.
    What a load of rubbish
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpe View Post
    Avalon Hill -> Normal people

    D&D -> Weird geeks.
    Correct

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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    Quote Originally Posted by ToonTotalWar View Post
    What a load of rubbish
    Omg have you even read GOT! jezuz G.R.R.Martin just rip a lot out of REAL history.

    And I like history and Got, lotr and warhammer, does that even mean that I don't exist!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by riskymonk View Post
    yea but mods are created by fans of the series. Games are created by university students who might not necessarily know or play the games/series they're working on

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    Sharpe's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    Quote Originally Posted by ToonTotalWar View Post
    Correct
    I didn't realise you were 46 lmao

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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    Jesus. "People who love history" Am I part of that or not? Or am I disqualified because I'm not throwing a fit about not having a historical TW game? Is it impossible to love History and enjoy a fantasy TW game? Are you the emperor of history fans? I'm so confused.
    I dunno but you sort of answered your own question below about preferring 30 years war to WH. It's not impossible to enjoy TW fantasy of course but history is simply superior set up for TW.


    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    While a well balanced person accepts that not always things goes his way. Honestly I'd rather have a 1600's 30 years war based total war than a Warhammer game. However since that's where the train is going I don't see any reason to throw a fit since my first choice was not selected. Rather, as the TW fan I am, "What new things can a warhammer game bring to this franchise?" Answer: "Plenty"
    I am not only accepting of things not "going my way," I'm out in front of the rest of you about how it's going to go down. And in case you're not thinking it through, or consciously embracing whatever CA does, the idea here that by registering unhappiness and making sure CA hears the displeasure of a representative sample of its fanbase that truly prefers history, we'll help ensure that the next game and the game after that will be more historical and less fantastical. If you care at all, that is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    I have little interests in pre-modern Japanese history, so I never bought Shogun 2. I suppose you will have to do the same as me and sit this one out. However I never complained for not getting what I want as much as you do though.
    I think this is false equivalence, as I've argued, historical game development is an entirely different beast than fantasy, even within a TW game framework. Besides all the geeks, WH may even require a specialized engine, even if the game systems will be similar to regular TW.

    Like you, I didn't give much thought to Japanese history but unlike you I really enjoyed learning about it because of Shogun 2. I'm pretty much into every kind of history regardless of whether I know much about it, as long as it's authentic and suits the engine (i.e., I wouldn't be into 20th C or modern era TW due to army limitations).
    Last edited by Huberto; March 16, 2015 at 02:21 PM.

  18. #318
    Sharpe's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    But what if there is a section of the fanbase that truly prefers fantasy?


  19. #319
    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    They aren't making a live action role play simulator.

    They're making a mass battle game set in an alternate renaissance Europe where the witch hunts are necessary because the witches are real and dangerous, where the Norsemen never converted to civilization and are instead the sort of demon worshipers out of our worst nightmares, where the dead will rise and slaughter the living if not given proper burial, where endless hordes in the east are posed to sweep away civilization forever. A world where horned beasts walk like men and stalk the deep forests of search of human prey, a world where the rats that nest in the walls are spies reporting back to their twisted masters who dwell far beneath our cities, a world where sultans and sheikhs fill their courts with conjurers who can summon spirits of fire and darkness. A world where Atlantis was shaken to its foundation but did not sink and the mysterious inhabitants of that land have colonies around the globe. A place where primordial reptilian intelligence hold the fate of the world in their cold blooded hands. etc.

    Sounds really lame.

    If they do it right we're going to be playing as Bretonian Dukes or Imperial Electors or Kislevite Boyars or Tilean Merchant Princes competing for influence in court intrigues while powers natural and unnatural seek to destroy us. Or we can play as those forces working to overthrow the human order.
    Last edited by Col. Tartleton; March 16, 2015 at 02:31 PM.
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    ToonTotalWar's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: 15 Years of Total War & Rezzed

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpe View Post
    I didn't realise you were 46 lmao
    Correct, thats why I am not into the fantasy genre as I was brought up on "historical facts" and table top wargames that dictated "historical" events and then moved onto PC games in the mid nineties to date playing "historical" games such as TW.

    As I have already stated that "Old Gits" are probably not into WH as this genre was not around when we were kids!

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