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Thread: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

  1. #1
    RedGuard's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    My first game as the Saxons: took britian with no resistance, proceeded to land in Rotomagus and Turonum, no resistance. I heled the franks take out Stilcho and we proceeded to divide up gaul amongst ourselves, just after southern gaul rebelled and made the "gaul" faction. All in all the only "army" I faced was that led by stilcho which he had no chance of winning.

    So second campaign as the franks, I declare war on WRE first turn. I procced to take Colonia Agrippina, and I face a woping one and a half roman armies (the same ones I fought as the Saxons) and I proceed to conquer all of gual along with caledonians and picts (the celts btw are far too agressive. irl they never had any ambitions other than to take back britain)

    then now as the Sassanids I completely took over the ERE territories outside of greece/thrace before 403 AD and I haven't faced a single field army What the CA? did you again not play test your game and see how easy it is to steamroll the ai? seriously this is unacceptable. completely unacceptable. Even in BI the romans would give you a run for your money but now I feel like if this was the state of the Roman Empire irl its a wonder it didn't fall in 395 AD.

  2. #2

    Default Re: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    Problem with the WRE/ERE is balancing it just right. If you don't get it just right, it's either too easy for the player, or too hard for the AI.

    CA, being CA, managed to hit upon the sweet spot of making it both too easy for the player and too hard for the AI.

  3. #3

    Default Re: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Problem with the WRE/ERE is balancing it just right. If you don't get it just right, it's either too easy for the player, or too hard for the AI.

    CA, being CA, managed to hit upon the sweet spot of making it both too easy for the player and too hard for the AI.
    Your post makes no sense at all.

  4. #4

    Default Re: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    Quote Originally Posted by crowe15 View Post
    Your post makes no sense at all.
    I'm not sure I can make it any easier for you to comprehend. But I'll try.

    1) If the WRE is buffed too much, it helps the AI, yet becomes too easy for the player (playing as the WRE).
    2) If the WRE is made too weak, while it becomes more challenging for the player (playing as the WRE), it becomes too hard for the AI to cope with.

    The current WRE as its set up, seems to be both too easy for the player (playing as the WRE), and too hard for the WRE AI, because they seem unable to survive longer than a few years, or defend themselves well. At the same time, if they were significantly buffed, it would be a cake walk for the player.

    But I've got to ask. Are you really so challenged that you couldn't get my original intent, or were you just being snarky for the fun of it?

  5. #5

    Default Re: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    My first game as the Saxons: took britian with no resistance, proceeded to land in Rotomagus and Turonum, no resistance. I heled the franks take out Stilcho and we proceeded to divide up gaul amongst ourselves, just after southern gaul rebelled and made the "gaul" faction. All in all the only "army" I faced was that led by stilcho which he had no chance of winning.

    So second campaign as the franks, I declare war on WRE first turn. I procced to take Colonia Agrippina, and I face a woping one and a half roman armies (the same ones I fought as the Saxons) and I proceed to conquer all of gual along with caledonians and picts (the celts btw are far too agressive. irl they never had any ambitions other than to take back britain)

    then now as the Sassanids I completely took over the ERE territories outside of greece/thrace before 403 AD and I haven't faced a single field army What the CA? did you again not play test your game and see how easy it is to steamroll the ai? seriously this is unacceptable. completely unacceptable. Even in BI the romans would give you a run for your money but now I feel like if this was the state of the Roman Empire irl its a wonder it didn't fall in 395 AD.
    Did you really destroy WRE/ ERE and capture their capitals, or just finish capturing fringe provinces? AI seems to tend to keep its force concentrated, so with such large empires and small number of stacks, it's completely understandable that most regions are left to fend for themselves. Once you march into their heartlands, things might be different. I for once crossed the Danube with one full Hunnic stack and was immediately cornered by 3 full stacks of ERE, forcing me to retreat.

  6. #6
    Humble Warrior's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Problem with the WRE/ERE is balancing it just right. If you don't get it just right, it's either too easy for the player, or too hard for the AI.

    CA, being CA, managed to hit upon the sweet spot of making it both too easy for the player and too hard for the AI.
    Wouldn`t the sweet spot be making it just right for the AI and making it just right for the player? Or was that sarcasm?

  7. #7
    RedGuard's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA View Post
    Did you really destroy WRE/ ERE and capture their capitals, or just finish capturing fringe provinces? AI seems to tend to keep its force concentrated, so with such large empires and small number of stacks, it's completely understandable that most regions are left to fend for themselves. Once you march into their heartlands, things might be different. I for once crossed the Danube with one full Hunnic stack and was immediately cornered by 3 full stacks of ERE, forcing me to retreat.
    No if it were just taking like gaul/ spain etc and not fighting any armies I'd understand a little bit better even though that's still effing ridiculous. You should not be able to capture a whole modern day country from the Romans without encountering, any, I mean any resistance. Heres my campaign as the Sassanids. this is in 402 AD. Im beseiging Constantinople from land and sea and I still haven't faced a single land army, nor will I:
    Id show you my saxon and frank campaign, but I deleted my saves after I'd already won far too easily. Basically all I need to do now as Sassinids to win a minor victory is wait until I get to year 425. ridiculous.

    Last edited by RedGuard; March 08, 2015 at 04:27 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    Admitedly the Sassanids are pretty OP what with their myriads of client states, powerful cavalry and plentiful tribute money. Even as a player holding them at bay is hard, can't imagine the AI doing much better, never mind player Sassanid vs AI ERE.

    But yes, the Roman empires are badly balanced. I get that it must be hard for the player to play as them, but I think it cripples the AI Rome too much and the big superpowers of the time (which they still are in 395 AD) end up being paper tigers, that's rather anticlimatic. They should start with more armies and better provinces, at least when AI controlled.

  9. #9

    Default Re: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    Well a reworking of the recruitment system, whereby it's much harder for anyone to recruit any new units might balance the game a bit. The Romans are starting with more standing armies, but can't replace them easily. It makes the game more difficult for anyone playing because units are now previous commodities that you can't afford to waste.

    You can replenish them, but training entirely new units is going to be really annoying for any player. As barbarian factions, you should have to wear the the Roman Empire bit by bit as opposed to a sudden invasion of the Empire.


    One of the biggest problem I think with the Total war series is that they have not implemented campaign cost independently from upkeep cost. It should cost Roman players extra money to move troops into enemy lands because they need to pay for all the supplies. Sadly, without this game mechanic, Roman players can afford to launch invasions into enemy lands without any additional cost.

  10. #10
    craziii's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    why don't you play as the ere or the wre on very hard? without self razing? the theme of attila is barbarian hordes wrecking the roman empires. the challenge in attila is playing as the hunts(can't settle anywhere) and the roman empires. everyone else is standard or easy.

    complain about something worth while at least. nm you can't with attila.
    fear is helluva drug
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    “The only rule that ever made sense to me I learned from a history, not an economics, professor at Wharton. "Fear," he used to say, "fear is the most valuable commodity in the universe." That blew me away. "Turn on the TV," he'd say. "What are you seeing? People selling their products? No. People selling the fear of you having to live without their products." freakin' A, was he right. Fear of aging, fear of loneliness, fear of poverty, fear of failure. Fear is the most basic emotion we have. Fear is primal. Fear sells.” WWZ

    Have you had your daily dose of fear yet? craziii
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  11. #11

    Default Re: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    Quote Originally Posted by craziii View Post
    why don't you play as the ere or the wre on very hard? without self razing? the theme of attila is barbarian hordes wrecking the roman empires. the challenge in attila is playing as the hunts(can't settle anywhere) and the roman empires. everyone else is standard or easy.

    complain about something worth while at least. nm you can't with attila.
    He has a valid point though - if you want to play as a barbarian horde to dismantle the Roman Empire, it's just way way to easy. I mean literally, I've played a number of campaigns as the Franks, Saxons, and Vandals, and I've never actually faced off against a Roman army in any of them, despite the fact I made capturing Rome my target. Playing as Rome is fairly difficult for most human players, so it hardly comes as a surprise that the AI just folds completely when faced with the Roman challenge.

    What CA should probably have done is change the rules for the Roman Empire when it is being controlled by the AI - for instance by reducing the imperium penalty or giving them a much bigger base income. As we know, the AI totally fails when it is faced with a two fronted war (Rome II is evidence of this) though the guys over a D et I did a very nice job through scripted events of giving Rome as much chance as possible, not only to survive, but also to expand. I remember for instance, that the Rome AI got a free army stack spawn if its homeland was invaded as well as having greater base income etc.

    You can tell that CA whacked the balance of Rome when you consider that the Empire is usually gone before Attila is even five years old. You know, the base premise of this game is kinda Attila vs. Rome...except it simply doesn't exist if you're not playing Rome yourself.



  12. #12

    Default Re: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    Think I have about 48 hours into Attila at the time of this post. And I would agree its to easy to steamroll the AI. Even the Huns have been no threat in either my Jutes or Danes campaigns. Certainly not WRE. I am hoping they will work on making the AI more dynamic at some point.

    The game is good and I dont like to complain. But I find myself just building something in abandoned settlements and clicking next turn most of the time. Playing on hard, and will turn it up to very hard and see if it helps any.


  13. #13
    craziii's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    Quote Originally Posted by Leving View Post
    He has a valid point though - if you want to play as a barbarian horde to dismantle the Roman Empire, it's just way way to easy. I mean literally, I've played a number of campaigns as the Franks, Saxons, and Vandals, and I've never actually faced off against a Roman army in any of them, despite the fact I made capturing Rome my target. Playing as Rome is fairly difficult for most human players, so it hardly comes as a surprise that the AI just folds completely when faced with the Roman challenge.

    What CA should probably have done is change the rules for the Roman Empire when it is being controlled by the AI - for instance by reducing the imperium penalty or giving them a much bigger base income. As we know, the AI totally fails when it is faced with a two fronted war (Rome II is evidence of this) though the guys over a D et I did a very nice job through scripted events of giving Rome as much chance as possible, not only to survive, but also to expand. I remember for instance, that the Rome AI got a free army stack spawn if its homeland was invaded as well as having greater base income etc.

    You can tell that CA whacked the balance of Rome when you consider that the Empire is usually gone before Attila is even five years old. You know, the base premise of this game is kinda Attila vs. Rome...except it simply doesn't exist if you're not playing Rome yourself.
    then you will immediately get people complaining about that "hidden" income. it just never ends with this kind of complain.

    the real issue is how 1 settlement factions can field 3 army stacks but ere/wre with their 30 to 40 settlements can only field 7 or so stacks.

    that you all should complain about and get ca to fix.

    about dei's spawn script, I kinda wish all major factions got the treatment, not just the roman faction.
    fear is helluva drug
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    “The only rule that ever made sense to me I learned from a history, not an economics, professor at Wharton. "Fear," he used to say, "fear is the most valuable commodity in the universe." That blew me away. "Turn on the TV," he'd say. "What are you seeing? People selling their products? No. People selling the fear of you having to live without their products." freakin' A, was he right. Fear of aging, fear of loneliness, fear of poverty, fear of failure. Fear is the most basic emotion we have. Fear is primal. Fear sells.” WWZ

    Have you had your daily dose of fear yet? craziii
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  14. #14
    Darios's Avatar Ex Oriente Lux
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    Default Re: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    Yup, as I have been stating the same thing in the Rome 2 forums for nearly a couple of years now - minor factions should only be able to field a single stack and should have a more defensive minded AI (like minor factions in NTW). There's no reason why I should be more afraid of the Garamantians than I am of the Goths.

    I am not against the Sassanid Empire having an advantage over the ERE (we all want a challenging game), but if I defeat Aria's army in battle then it should be years before they are capable of threatening me again. They shouldn't be able to throw three stacks at me. The problem is even worse in the West - why are the Picts descending down and occupying large swaths of Gaul/Spain?

    Another big issue is that barbarian tribes don't seem to hate the sub-Roman factions nearly as much as they hate the WRE. We end up with Western Europe becoming a patchwork quilt of minor factions (sub-Roman and barbarian)
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  15. #15

    Default Re: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    From what I've seen the computer AI is capable of using extra money and turning it into new armies. The Sassanids will usually have three stacks with one province left because they have so much extra money lying around even after losing 90% of their provinces. So, I think a mod like Major factions from Rome II would fix the problem. Give either empire a boost of like 6k extra per turn and those extra two stacks should slow down the barbarians. The fact that they have to build them may mean they are located near the action. Or if you want to face only infantry legions just lower the upkeep of all infantry units by half or three quarters.

    This fix seems better than reducing overall army counts.

  16. #16
    Darios's Avatar Ex Oriente Lux
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    Default Re: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    This fix seems better than reducing overall army counts.
    I do not look to mods to correcting issues that I feel should be fixed in Total War games. In any regard, reducing army counts is the issue because constantly defending minor settlements against armies that outnumber you 5-1 is a recipe for boredom. Wars and battles should be more dramatic and decisive, not having endless stacks constantly thrown at you. Making changes to the imperium system would be a simple way of correcting that.

    Part of the WRE disaster is that barbarian tribes tend to ignore the Roman separatists as they chop up huge sways of the WRE's territory. I wonder if it would be possible to edit the CAI for certain factions (ex: send the Franks into Gaul, and the Ostrogoths into Italy) despite who is ruling there. Let's say that the Pics occupy territory in Gaul, then it would be nice to see the Franks suddenly begin to hate them as a result and soon afterwards declare war.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    Quote Originally Posted by Darios View Post
    I am not against the Sassanid Empire having an advantage over the ERE (we all want a challenging game), but if I defeat Aria's army in battle then it should be years before they are capable of threatening me again. They shouldn't be able to throw three stacks at me. The problem is even worse in the West - why are the Picts descending down and occupying large swaths of Gaul/Spain?
    A big problem is the ultra fast recruitment which allows to rebuild forces way too quick. If I defeat an enemy army on my soil, they have already built a fresh new army when I want to take the fight to them.

  18. #18

    Default Re: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    Quote Originally Posted by Darios View Post
    I do not look to mods to correcting issues that I feel should be fixed in Total War games.
    This made me lol. Get busy waiting buddy. Mods have been the best thing about TW games since Shogun. Shogun came out any everyone was all "waaah awesome". MTW came out and everyone was like "Booo, I wanted 'thisveryspecificgameplayblablablabla' type of game", CA said "stfu and do it yourselves then" and released mod tools, and it's been heaven ever since. This forum, and all gamers really... need to unite and have game companies like CA give us as much modding controls and tools as we can handle. All other complaints are MEANINGLESS!
    Son of the Ancient Archaon, House of Siblesz

  19. #19
    Darios's Avatar Ex Oriente Lux
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    Default Re: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    Yeah that's why every CA game since M2TW has been increasingly ridiculous. Part of the reason has been DLC, while part of the reason stems from people treating mods like the pie in the sky instead of imploring CA to improve the game themselves. I love mods, I still play about 2-3 for M2TW and I've worked on one myself. When it comes to Rome 2/Attila however, I don't feel like having my game break everytime CA releases a new update/patch.

    Let's not get off-topic with talking about mods here, the OP is interested in what CA plans on doing in order to improve the situation of the Romans in Attila.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: The Roman Empires are being left completely undefended

    Quote Originally Posted by Candy_Licker View Post
    A big problem is the ultra fast recruitment which allows to rebuild forces way too quick. If I defeat an enemy army on my soil, they have already built a fresh new army when I want to take the fight to them.
    I think like you that its the biggest problem, not necessarily hidden income (which makes single settlement factions relevant) or too big armies cap per imperium levels (which makes low imperium factions relevant too).

    Decrease overall army recruitment capacity by 50%, and by 100% in winter, and you will not see factions coming back in force after a crushing defeat before at least 2 turn of the season clock.
    This + stronger garrison would still make AI able to defend its turfs after a huge field battle defeat, without being able to spam stacks all the time.

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