Factions discussions

[falcom4ever]

Your map looks nice. But I wonder if Europe regions wouldn't be too small ?
I cuted FTW3 map in a way that Europe wouldn't be too small, still beeing able to fit most of the world.

I love the time frame we could use Asia Empires and some other mods ! We would need to find people able to create units for Incans for example, as no other mods do so.

It would be better once hardcoded limits are broken, but I can imagine the factions for this time frame. One faction in my list needs to be cut off though. Feel free to suggest other factions if you got an idea.

=Americas= 5
Apachean
Cherokee or Creek or Hurons or Iroquois (would need new units)
Aztec
Maya
Inca (would need new units)

=Africa= 5
Mali
Kanem Bornu or Kongo (Needs some research, but maybe they can share units with Mali and Zimbabwe)
Zimbabwe
Egypt
Morocco

=Europe= 11
Portugal
Spain
France
HRE
England
Papal States
Denmark
Hungary-Bohemia
Poland-Lithuania
Ottoman
Russia

=Asia= 9
Mughal
Vijaganayar
Kazakh or Oirat or another nomadic faction
Persia
Ming
Japan
Korea
Siam
Majapahit or Melaka (would probably need new units). Majapahit at this time was going to disapear while Melaka continued much alive struggling against Europeans.

For Americas we could make small pox spread instead of plague

[againster]

Facition list (Just a plan)

America-4
Apachean\Cherokee or Creek or Hurons or Iroquois (would need new units)
Aztec
Maya
Inca (would need new units)

Africa- 5
Songhai
Kanem Bornu or Kongo (Needs some research, but maybe they can share units with Mali and Zimbabwe)
Zimbabwe
Mamuluk
Morocco

Europe 11 or 12
Portugal
Spain
France
HRE
England
Papal States
Sweden or Denmark or Dutch
Hungary-Bohemia
Poland-Lithuania
Ottoman
Russia

Asia- 9 or 10
Mughal
Vijaganayar or Bijapur
Tumed or Kazakh or Oirat or another nomadic faction
Persia
Ming
Japan
Korea or Bukhara
Myanmar or Siam
Majapahit or Melaka or Mataram

Maybe we should leave a faction for script

[falcom4ever]

Maybe we can remove Mameluks since they are about to be destroyed by Ottomans ?

Denmark, Sweden and Norway were under Kalmar Union until 1523. I dont know if we should separate them.

The situation in 1518 acording to EUIV

Africa

Americas

East Asia

Europe

Middle-East

South-Asia

[againster]

I think we should leave some faction for the future?Or delay the atart date?

[falcom4ever]

I think we should leave some faction for the future?Or delay the atart date?

Hmm, I can only think of Netherlands eventualy Manchu starting marching on Ming.

[againster]

faction name and banners can be changed by some script,but it should use some empty faction,for world map mod,it will be a question~

[falcom4ever]

America-4
North American faction (Apachean, Cherokee, Shawnee, Creek, Hurons or Iroquois) #Since we got already a lot of work to do, maybe we just keep Apachean or just change name and banners and keep same units
Aztec
Maya
Inca (would need new units)

Africa- 4
Songhai #I guess they can inherit Mali units and we would add some gunpowerder units
Kanem Bornu or Kongo #Needs some research, but maybe they can share units with Mali and Zimbabwe
Zimbabwe
Morocco

Europe 11
Portugal
Spain
France
HRE
England
Papal States
Denmark #Denmark should definitly be here since they control Norway, Iceland, Greenland. It's a good candidate for invasion of North America. They may control Sweden and we would script Sweden quitting Kalmar Union and Norway trying so as rebel spawn.
Hungary-Bohemia
Poland-Lithuania
Ottoman
Russia

Asia- 9
Mughal #We will give them Timurids and Dehly provinces at this exact time frame
Vijanagar or Bijapur #Any is fine. I thought about Vijanagar to have space to give a west coast province to Portugal.
Tumed, Kazakh, Oirat, Mongol Khanate or Manchu #We should open a discussion regarding the one
Persia
Ming
Japan
Korea or Bukhara #I prefer Korea personally, we could script Japanese invation as event.
Myanmar or Siam #To be discussed
Melaka, Açeh or Mataram #To be discussed

That would live space for one emerging faction. Netherlands would make more sense.

[againster]

there are totally 28 faction in your list

Bukhara is a powerful country in country i think we should keep it
Between Tumed(represent Mongol Khanate), Kazakh, Oirat or Manchu and Bukhara and Korea,i think we should have at least 2 factions
Between Netherlands and Sweden i think we should have at least one(sweden make a great military revolution)

And one faction for script and one slave faction..we reach the limit

[AntonisTheGreek]

Hmmm,let me tell my opinion about the factions present is this...
========Americas(4 factions)===========
Aztecs
Mayans
Incas
Native American Tribes(an overall faction for Iroquois,Cherokee etc.)

=======Europe(13 factions)=============
England
France
Spain
Portugal
Ottoman Empire
Poland
Norway
Sweden
German States(or HRE?What's the correct?)
Italian States
Lithuania
Hungary
Russia

========Asia(9 factions)======================
Indian States(An overall faction for all those small states in India)
Persia
Ming Dynasty
Japanese Clans
Mongol Khanate
One of Khiva,Uzbekistan,Kazakhstan,Nogai,Horde Oirat,of those dark grey people between Kazakhstan and Oirat horde
One of those nations under the territory of Ming
One of Malacca,Aceh or Brunei
Korea

============Africa(4 factions)==================
Morocco
Songhai
Congo
These yellow people in Southern Africa whose name cannot be seen

And naturally,rebels(here renamed as Minor Factions)...

[falcom4ever]

There was 28 + 1 (Netherlands the script faction they happear in 1550 something by gaining independance from Spain)

Netherlands had more impact in a world scale than Sweden. They fought in South America, Brazil and of course South-East Asia. And between Sweden and Denmark, Denmark seems a better choice too since without script since they already have a position to invade Americas (Greenland and Iceland).

Between Tumed, Kazakhs, Oirat, Manchu, Bukhara (Uzbeks) and Korea it's difficult to chose.
Kazkhs or or Uzbeks would try to stop Russian march in Siberia.
Manchu invaded China in this time frame and started a new dynasty.
Korea was a tributary state of Ming, so sadly if they are not there it's not a big deal.
Maybe Manchu and Bukhra ?

[IGdood]

Hey there, glad to see some collaboration happening!

I think Eras Total Conquest also has some research for this time period, uanime might be a good person to contact.

[falcom4ever]

Ayuthaya VS Taungoo, which would make more sense ?

Both were major powers of South East Asia. Both Buddhists and jungle fighting style with Elephants.
Its a difficult choice.

[falcom4ever]

Here some flags of the time frame for the decided/potential factions :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Portugal


Spain




HRE


England


Denmark


Poland-Lithuania (the one of the later commonwealth)


Ottoman


Russia


Kanem-Bornu


Kongo


Songhai


Morocco


Mughal Empire


Vijayanagar


Kazakh Khanate


Persia Safavid (the one from 1570-on is the most stylish)


Ming


Koseon Korea


Ayutthaya (or we can use late flag of siam with the elephant)


Melaka sultanate


Aceh sultanate


Mataram sultanate


Netherlands

[falcom4ever]

@ Anthonis
We can't make an overall faction for Indian and North American natives. If there are borders there is a reason. In india there is 4 religions competing with each other at this time. And Natives would never be a whole centralized state. Keep in mind that during european invasion in North America, some tribes joined English ranks and some French ranks and they fought each other that way.
It's like if we make a XXI century mod and put Greece, Albania, Bosnia, Slovenia in the same faction and call it Balcans.

I made some research this week-end.

America-4
Iroquois #Any of the ones mentionned would be ok. But maybe beeing far from Aztecs wont be such as bad idea, it would give some space to Spain and Mesoamerican conflicts.
Aztec
Maya
Inca (would need new units)

Africa- 4
Songhai
Kanem Bornu or Kongo
Zimbabwe
Morocco

Europe 11
Portugal
Spain
France
HRE
England
Papal States
Denmark #Denmark should definitly be here since they control Norway, Iceland, Greenland. It's a good candidate for invasion of North America without script.
Hungary-Bohemia
Poland-Lithuania
Ottoman
Russia

Asia- 9
Mughal
Vijayanagara #Bijapur was muslim and allied to Ottomans, Mughals are already muslim in the region. Vijayanagara would be the only Hindu faction of the game. They had good relation with Portuguese and fought against islam.
Bukhra #The khanate of the mod in modern Uzbekistan.
Persia
Ming
Japan
Korea #Mughal, Persia, Khiva are already factions focusion on cavalry archers. It we put Manchu, Oirat or Tumeds it will be yet again another faction with horse archers. It would be a faction giving a slightly different feeling.
Myanmar or Siam #This I couldn't make my mind.
Açeh #After Malacca falled in the hands of Portuguese, it was Açeh that took the responsibility to try to recapture it. They got support from Ottomans and tried several times to erase the european catholic influance in the region.

Script faction 1
Netherlands #Sweden turned indeed into a powerfull country. But when it comes to influance in the world, Netherlands was more important. Netherlands would emerge around 1570, then we would script Netherlands attacks on Carahibes, Brazil, South Africa, Sri Lanka, South-East Asia, etc.

So 29 spots in total. What do you think againster ?

[againster]

Well,this list is good,and between Myanmar and Siam,Myanmar was a powerful country,maybe more important than Siam at that time

[falcom4ever]

Hum... In that cas well shall maybe go with Toungoo then.

By the way, in your opinion shall we use Siam units from Asia Empires for Aceh or make new ones :0) ?

[AntonisTheGreek]

Denmark #Denmark should definitly be here since they control Norway, Iceland, Greenland. It's a good candidate for invasion of North America without script.

Are you sure?Denmark and Norway are 2 different factions,as I can see from that EU4 screenshot that shows Europe.And it's Norway that controls Iceland...
And since you decided 29 factions+rebels,we have room for 1 more faction(except if I'm mistaken)...

[falcom4ever]

Europa Universalis is more complex than Total War, you can be in union with another country.
During this time Denmark, Norway and Sweden were in Kalmar Union, then Sweden parted and Danish continued to rule over Norway.

Oh yeah true there is place for one more. Hum can be another african faction, sweden, manchu, oirat, tumed or siam.
Lets hear what againster suggests.

[AntonisTheGreek]

Or we can do this:Make a Kalmar Union faction,and then write a script that creates uncontrolable unrest in either the lands of Sweden,Denmark or Norway,to simulate separation from the union.Do you think that this is a good idea?

[Treaper]

In Stainless steel is some script that could be used, if you somebody know, in some turn, scripts spawns rebel armies around some settlements and that armies are starting siege... Maybe that could be way how to simulate fall of Kalmar Union