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Thread: Not many Chi-Rho symbols?

  1. #1

    Default Not many Chi-Rho symbols?

    Hey guys. Been coming back to the CRoC mod lately, in large part because your mod reflects the Late Roman military so much more accurately than CA's silly system.

    Anyways, I loaded up a battle as Constantine and noticed that most of his troops (legionaries especially) are missing the famous Chi-Rho symbol on their shields. I wondered if this was on purpose somehow, because by memory I seem to recall your mod having used the Chi-Rho quite extensively for the Constantine Faction.

  2. #2
    Julianus Flavius's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Not many Chi-Rho symbols?

    Well the thing is, the story of Constantine putting the Chi Rho on his soldier's shields seems to be... somewhat fictional. The Notitia Dignatatum, a compendium of Late Roman shield patterns, shows that all the various Legions and Numeri had their own shield patterns, none featuring the Chi Rho. It may have been that Constantine's order was a one-off, that it only was for the Milvian Bridge battle, or that it was a piece of pro christian propaganda designed to make Constantine appear more devout than he actually was.
    In any case, this mod features Chi Rhos on the foot and cavalry bodyguard units, and on (I think, from memory) on the Legios, just above the two dog heads curving inwards, but they are difficult to discern on low graphics settings.
    I don't work for the mod by the way, just thought I'd volunteer what I remember of the mod before my computer cracked it with Rome 2 haha
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    What have the Romans ever done for us?? apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?
    Some of my favourite quotes:
    "Your god has yet to prove himself more merciful than his predecessors" ~ Hypatia, as represented in the film 'Agora'
    "If you choose to do nothing, they will continue to do this again and again, until there is no-one left in the city, no people for this governement to govern"
    ~ Hypatia, as represented in the film 'Agora'

  3. #3
    Reno Melitensis's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Not many Chi-Rho symbols?

    Quote Originally Posted by Julianus Flavius View Post
    Well the thing is, the story of Constantine putting the Chi Rho on his soldier's shields seems to be... somewhat fictional.
    I don't agree with you here. Its true Constantine was a worshiper of Sol Invictus, but his mother was a christian and he may have had christian influence through his life. Maxentius was better placed and had a larger better army, mentioning the Praetorians is enough to maybe send a chill down the spine of any soldier. Constantine had a small army but better prepeared for war, many of them would have been veterans of his father war in Britannia. He needed somthing to motivate them, to show them that something divine was with them. Off course he needed the support of the growing christian community within the Empire, so the Chi-Rho story may not be as fictional as you may think. Maybe they didn't painted huge symbols on their shields, but a little symbol on it may have been more than enough. And also they where christian soldiers within the ranks, San Martin of Tours is an example.

    Cheers

  4. #4

    Default Re: Not many Chi-Rho symbols?

    Quote Originally Posted by Julianus Flavius View Post
    Well the thing is, the story of Constantine putting the Chi Rho on his soldier's shields seems to be... somewhat fictional. The Notitia Dignatatum, a compendium of Late Roman shield patterns
    The Notitia Dignitatum is dated for almost 100 years after the milvian bridge battle. it is either one-off order as you said, it could be also painted on the back of the shields

  5. #5
    Julianus Flavius's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Not many Chi-Rho symbols?

    I'd say the most likely story would be a one-off order and/or the symbol being painted on the back of shields. That would make sense, as it would be easier for a soldier to look at his shield from behind and see that god is watching over him or something like that.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    What have the Romans ever done for us?? apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?
    Some of my favourite quotes:
    "Your god has yet to prove himself more merciful than his predecessors" ~ Hypatia, as represented in the film 'Agora'
    "If you choose to do nothing, they will continue to do this again and again, until there is no-one left in the city, no people for this governement to govern"
    ~ Hypatia, as represented in the film 'Agora'

  6. #6

    Default Re: Not many Chi-Rho symbols?

    Just to chime in, I'd say it's pretty well established that Constantine's troops did carry the Chi-Rho or a Staurogram on their shields. A contemporary, Lactantius states as much in chapter 44 of 'On the Death of the Persecutors': "He did as he had been commanded, and he marked on their shields the letter X, with a perpendicular line drawn through it and turned round thus at the top, being the cipher of Christ"

    And several shields illustrated in the Notitia
    Dignitatum were identified as having a variation the symbol.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Not many Chi-Rho symbols?

    I made a submod, which uses more Chi-Ros and Staurograms for Constantine. Here you go: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...?id=1247379221
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20171228151744_1.jpg   20171228151758_1.jpg   20171228152054_1.jpg  

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