Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.65 (05.06.2015)

[Broreale]

I'm sorry for not testing this myself but do onagers have increased ammo to make up for their low accuracy? I definitely understand making them so that they can't snipe units/generals but I know that in vanilla I NEED to go into first person and turn off fire at will to knock down a wall, that's how much ammo I need to save. If they have even lower accuracy now then perhaps a buff in ammo is in order--after all, in a siege situation it seems more likely for them to have a prepared cache to fall back on.

[KAM 2150]

Sure, I will include it. Overal ammo count is yet to be polished.

[Hadro]

Awesome work Kam, I can't play vanilla after the glory of DEI...

[Zhokar]

I've been playing the Geats and conquering Britain. I have to say that your mod has made grabbing territory from the weakened WRE much more fun and challenging. Vanilla they were a total pushover to me. Now they chew up spear levies and the general's Praetorians are a HUGE threat. Now that my units get a morale penalty from flaming arrows as well and their damage was adjusted the starting stack Nordic Bows are ineffective against the heavily armored Roman infantry - as they should be. I also use a double garrisons mod, this and the redone Roman units make the WRE a lot more feisty early game. Usually by turn 30 Gaul had totally collapsed and Spain was in the process of being taken over. It feels good to see the Barbarians losing their stacks to WRE garrisons.

You're doing a great job on unit balancing, considering this is a 0.3 release. Really looking forward to the next versions. Are you planning a modular approach or will DeI stay an all-in-one overhaul?

[krunsh]

Krunsh, what do you mean by unit value? Men count?

Sorry for being vague. I meant their Recruiting Cost/Upkeep.

[GPM26]

Hi Kam, if I want to edit the closer deployment zones from the mod. Is it just the terrain> deployment section part I need from the mod

[KAM 2150]

Thanks for nice feedback Zhokar, yes, good that you use increased garrison mod, I haven't increased them yet Also about modular vs all in one, I won't divide this mod into smaller ones as ALL combat parts need eachother to work so far,except those that are made by other people, since you can use their threads to get the mods Plus who knows, mayby this mod will soon get a bit bigger....wait for more news soon

Krunsh, I won't make it and I advice to never play with vanilla recruitment and upkeep. I mean why? It is totally broken with elite infantry costing less then levy spearmen of another nation or medium javeliners having higher upkeep then cataphracts. Why anyone would prefer it over costs and upkeep balanced with unit performance? ; P Anyway, you can have vanilla values by simply deleting main_units_tables, but that will also bring back vanilla unit size. Only reason to use vanilla costs and upkeep would be if my costs were much higher then vanilla ones, but that is not the case, my upkeep is around vanilla level in case of most units, but simply crap units do not have higher upkeep then elite cataphracts.

GPM26, if you want to take out closer deployment, simply delete terrain tables. If you want to edit how big are the borders then ask Sheridan, he is the author of it

[krunsh]

Krunsh, I won't make it and I advice to never play with vanilla recruitment and upkeep. I mean why? It is totally broken with elite infantry costing less then levy spearmen of another nation or medium javeliners having higher upkeep then cataphracts. Why anyone would prefer it over costs and upkeep balanced with unit performance? ; P Anyway, you can have vanilla values by simply deleting main_units_tables, but that will also bring back vanilla unit size. Only reason to use vanilla costs and upkeep would be if my costs were much higher then vanilla ones, but that is not the case, my upkeep is around vanilla level in case of most units, but simply crap units do not have higher upkeep then elite cataphracts.

Oh my, I think there was a bit of a misunderstanding here! I was merely asking if the re-balancing you did for vikings and Saxon included their fixed cost/upkeep. I have no desire what so ever of using the vanilla ones, which is why I have been waiting for your mod's update (And I don't play big factions such as Rome, too confusing of start!).

You released the roman factions first without the costs/upkeep being fixed, then added this later on. It was unclear to me whether your update for barbarians included both from the start.

by your answer, I'll assume it did!

[KAM 2150]

Hahaha, sorry I misunderstood you Yes, now I only release fully finished nations

[Butan]

Dat mod/thread already grew a lot... KAM so famous now

I'm really happy to see that the work you have done on Rome 2 is not wasted and even improved on for Attila, because I think Attila has a slightly better BAI that your battle mod will undoubtedly benefit from, with its positive effects being largely amplified.
There is even some things that would not work with Rome 2, that could be done with Attila, battle mechanics wise. I cant wait to see what you're going to cook.

[fmlyman]

This improves battles so much.
My High King Heavy melee Infantry no longer dies first in battle against levy spears lol

[senag2]

KAM thank god you are here! I am sick of Rome 2 and was waiting for you guys to show up for Attila since vanilla combat sucks big time, so I can get rid of other mods (no offence to those guys). If DeI is any indication as to how cool a game can Attila become I can't wait for you guys to start operating on it proper.

And btw why don't these eggheads at CA give you guys a job? Clearly their current team is totally clueless!

[geala]

Would it be possible to make onagers fixed artillery in field battles, similar to giant ballistas in R2TW? The thought of such heavy machines being dragged over the battlefield while shooting is annoying to me, reminds me of the self-propelled trebuchets of M2TW fame killing not only scores of men but also immersion.

[Efix]

Yep, entire mod included. I forgot it takes out other units, but yes, I agree with his choices.

Can we get the dog back plz !!?

[Pescatore]

How about " menaulatoi " for ERI ?

[KAM 2150]

Byzantine phalax is out of the games timeframe and it was not "pure" macedonian style phalanx.

Dogs are out and never to come back. Besides being a BS unit, the are simply broken by CA. AI units can't target them, which leads to 40 dogs killing 1000 heavy infantrymen (since CA made units to have 0 defence while moving, hence 1 bite = 1 kill).

[Augustusng]

Dogs are out and never to come back. Besides being a BS unit, the are simply broken by CA. AI units can't target them, which leads to 40 dogs killing 1000 heavy infantrymen (since CA made units to have 0 defence while moving, hence 1 bite = 1 kill).

You know, in vanilla Attila, dogs aren't that bad - at least from the battles I've played, they don't seem to get many kills at all. And watchtowers can target them, so that's interesting. But I'm okay if you remove dogs entirely.

[Butan]

I concur with Augustus, Attila's dogs seem to die much quicker.

[KAM 2150]

I tested them, 2 dog units at first rammed heaviest Roman infantry frontally with little effect, but as soon as infantry moved to attack dog handlers, pesky barkers attacked them from flank and back, reducing entire unit to 1/3 of total men in less then 15 seconds. Dogs are still broken and of course total BS unit. Hence, bye bye

[Hewitt212]

Hey Kam, great work so far mate! Just a quick question, do we need to install your slower unit speed mod separately or is it included in this overhaul?