Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.65 (05.06.2015)

[Twich]

Changelog 0.3 (28.02.2015):
-pikes taken out of game - credits to ingvard1979
-towers damage, reload and range nerfed a lot, but in exchange they shot multiple arrows
-closer deployment zone - credits to Sheridan
-all Norsemen units rebalanced
-onagers should be less accurate vs units
-fatigue system rebalanced - still not perfect

Hi KAM,

Big time fan of your overhauls for battle. Been following since DEI and love your battle mod for DEI. Thank you for taking the time out to do this for us.

Version 0.3 is def an improvement in the right direction over 0.2. The AI seems to react to your moves a little bit better? Not sure if that is placebo but if you bring in troops near the rear and they're all blobbed up- they might break off a unit to react-seems noticeable over 0.2 which is great. Still, sometimes- You can park cav right behind them and they will not react while 6 units of spear try fight through 1 defending unit? - is this just CA battle AI?

As for fatigue- happy to hear you're still working on balance. Question. When a unit gains rank- does this effect their fatigue (fatigue much slower) - could be a thought? As for balance. It almost seems like they're resting far longer they can battle. It's almost as if they can battle for 1 min- then it takes them 2 min to recover. I guess the balance of regeneration of fatigue and a unit getting tired is a fine point.

If there is anything you want to look out for while we playing please point it out so we can give positive feedback. Thanks.

[KAM 2150]

Hi, thanks for kind words

AI units pulling back is Attila thing, at least that one if fixed. Although it is sometimes broken and units pull back, but CA also made it that during pullback unit defence is reduced to 0 so they are getting slaughtered by anything during running away from combat (as 100% hits deal damage).


What I would like to test the most are missile units, as proper balancing of them is ahead of me, but I think they are bugged in Attila, missile units have huge problems with shooting compared to Rome 2. I often saw only 5-10 guys shooting in entire squad. I might have an idea how to fix it, but it must wait for Monday.

Also I would like to get some feedback about units costs compared to their performance so they are balanced nicely.

[gregnaar]

Thanks four your work on this KAM! I hope you can balance the game like you did with rome 2! I have just 2 questions, is this compatible with magnar doubled garrisons mod, and secondly is it save compatible? I started WRE today on very hard, and i really dont want to start again, unless i have to. (Ok second question is answered in the first page, sry for asking )

[Cavalier]

Fantastic mod. However, I think you overdid it slightly with the onager inaccuracy. Right now they land 1 out of 10 shots

[spiderknight]

I installed this last night and started a ERW game. The goths attacked me on the first turn in a minor settlement where i had a pretty small army. I put everyone in the capture point area and by cycling the men throught the line held out for along time. Right when i thought i would lose alaric was killed and i routed their army. The goths had one unit of horsemen left on the 2nd turn. The funniest part was that the huns asked for peace while going throught the ai turns on the first turn...must have freaked them out hahaha.

[Zhokar]

Fantastic mod. However, I think you overdid it slightly with the onager inaccuracy. Right now they land 1 out of 10 shots

I second that. And I have an idea: How about the accuracy value for raw recruits stays low but gets big increases for veterancy? That would reflect the artillery troops learning to better judge the ballistics of indirect fire.

[KAM 2150]

To be honest, I haven't even tested onagers, just increased their spread from 5 to 7 ; P

Zhokar, missile units already get bonus to accuracy from experience, but remember that 99% of AI units you will fight won't have much experience or no at all, that is why I never put much emphasis on exp bonuses, even if it should be like that in real life.

[geala]

Will there be a mod version with the unit replacement removed? I find that feature annoying. There are some mods who remove it but one I have f.e. contains the main_unit_unit tables and I don't know wether I could use it with your mod, would change all the costs, wouldn't it?

[KAM 2150]

Yes, as stated on previous page, retarded unit replacement will be taken out It is one of the reasons why I hold my Attila campaign until this will be finished.

[juanplay]

I think we have a problem with the balance of the protectores domestici, despite being the most expensive infantry units avaliable to romans, they are barely able to defeat tier I germanic nobles and basically get destroyed by any tier 2 germanic, Sassanid and nomad infantry. Given what they cost, how they look (Armor) and that their task was to guard the emperor himself, they should be highly effective.

P.D: Kam, would you also be willing to unify roman rosters? I already use a mod that does that but with your latest release, that mod ceases to function.

[geala]

@ KAM: nice to hear. I also did not start a campaign yet fortunately but wasted time to mod a faction and some units to my liking.

Question to projectiles: is the range of crossbows not a bit low, just 125 m? Maybe the Roman crossbows were not the strongest, did they have a simple wooden bow?

@ juanplay: Very interesting. The Protectores seem to have good stats, arm10 (highest inf armor), 24/20/50/10, the second best sword and the best shield in game. Strange when they would lose against the units you mentioned. What other factors could contribute to this?

[juanplay]

Yes geala is quite strange, their stats are high yet they lose easily to tier 2 sword units, maybe they lack the vs infantry bonus, and despite having high armor it counts for nothing when fighting infantry with maces and axes, i just did an one on one battle against persian royal archers, the the protectores were defeated without much trouble

[Chris P. Bacon]

It might be their weapon, I know (at least in vanilla) that the Herculani Seniores have the Heavy Spatha which is more effective than the regular one, so the Protectores might still have the weak weapon they had when they were a crappy 400 talent unit in vanilla.

[KAM 2150]

Nope, rebalanced units have nwe weapons, without AP and anti inf bonus.

[juanplay]

Then why are the domestici such a crappy unit for their price and status?, there must be a reason

[KAM 2150]

I will check it on Monday.

[krunsh]

Changelog 0.3 (28.02.2015):
-pikes taken out of game - credits to ingvard1979
-towers damage, reload and range nerfed a lot, but in exchange they shot multiple arrows
-closer deployment zone - credits to Sheridan
-all Norsemen units rebalanced
-onagers should be less accurate vs units
-fatigue system rebalanced - still not perfect

Does the Norsemen balance include unit value on campaign (I think I read something about Saxons as well.)?

[Turmobil]

Are archers and the likes supposed to have rates of fire in the hundreds?

[geala]

Yes. If 180 archers would use their bows to fire, we had 180 small camp fires.

Sorry, couldn't resist. What do you mean with fire in the hundreds? Do they shoot too fast? Too what extent too fast? A realistic shooting rate would be about 6 to 10 arrows a minute. The lower number would be better because soldiers were quite often exhausted during campaigns.

[KAM 2150]

Fire rate display is bugged, I used UI vales from Rome 2 but it shows it in odd way, do not worry, there are no machineguns ;P

Krunsh, what do you mean by unit value? Men count?