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Thread: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.65 (05.06.2015)

  1. #41

    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    Quote Originally Posted by krunsh View Post
    My Warbands (Axemen) gained the frenzy ability which I am fairly sure they did not have in my campaign (Note that I am using DogSoldier's overhaul.), but also lost their shieldwall. This made them useless on my frontline as they died fast of missile fire. I was confused by this, considering that they own the same shields as the spearmen.
    - None of my units had the Offensive or Defensive testudo. This is a feature I missed, since the offensive was a great way of maneuvering the battlefield without fear of missile attacks (And the animation looks amazing!).
    I think Germanic Warbands do have frenzy, in vanilla anyway. Of course, I'd prefer all the abilities like that removed for a DeI-style overhaul.

    Also another suggestion for later on, whenever Kam balances the formations. I think the testudo abilities should be renamed - make the offensive one "testudo" and the defensive one "fulcum." After all, this game is finally the right time period for the use of the fulcum formation - it doesn't make much sense for Rome 2, but it fits in Attila.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    I will look into them.

    About some units having those and that formations, my pack so far does not even include formations to units tables so it can't add/take abilities from units
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  3. #43

    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    THANK YOU OHHH SO MUCH!

  4. #44

    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    now im really looking forward to the weekend so i can try this mod myself
    with proper recr./upkeep balancing and unit-stat tweaks it will probably fix the game for me. Because campaign is actually pretty good in Attila.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    Played some more. This time with higher tier units that all had shield wall, and it changed the whole battlefield (I guess it makes sense that the earlier units would be less organized?). I set my whole line in a shield and spear wall, with archers behind, while the AI did the same as last time, setting up archers in the front and not attacking right away (This is something I never saw in Rome 2, so it is making me happy.). Archer fires did some damage to my units, but at a much more acceptable pace. I marched them forward still in a shield wall to take the offensive, while my archers focused theirs.

    The AI then attempted a flank with they cavalries, but I was able to intercept them with a spear and my own cav (Bad move, but BAI will be BAI.). As my main line grew closer, the AI charged it (Sadly focusing on my 3 center units, allowing me to easily flank. Still though, the battle was slow and some of my axemen broke and later regrouped, forcing me to create a new line and engage into a second battle. This felt great, and I won with a close victory.

    Note that my inputs are based on my play style. I tend to avoid trying to exploit the flaws of the AI, and instead try to create battles that are fun to play and watch... Thus I may not be the best reference on balance. Still, this felt like the battle had a good pace (Very similar to your experimental pack, KAM.). Still hoping that the testudo makes it into your mod in the long run, but for now I am happy with shield walls and will only be waiting for the campaign values implementations!

    Cheers!

    EDIT: Maybe more importantly, no units stayed until the last 5-10 men before routine!

  6. #46

    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    Quote Originally Posted by KAM 2150 View Post
    I will look into them.

    About some units having those and that formations, my pack so far does not even include formations to units tables so it can't add/take abilities from units
    Mmmh, with your mod my sarmatians warbands have frenzy, and without your mod they have shieldwall and testudos...

  7. #47

    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Chinaski View Post
    Mmmh, with your mod my sarmatians warbands have frenzy, and without your mod they have shieldwall and testudos...
    You must be using another mod then. Sarmatian Warbands have frenzy in vanilla Attila.

    Also Kam, do you have any plans for unit sizes? I'd like to again suggest that crazy idea I had for unit sizes in DeI. Maybe it could be done more easily here, since there are less units to worry about (for now anyway).

  8. #48

    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    It's great to see this mod in progress! Kam, I read what your priorities are, but do you think you'll balance unit costs for a campaign in near fututre?

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    People, please double check before claiming that my pack gives/takes abilities from units Except....next update which will take out most of magic abilites I also rebalanced unit size so next update will have it too I am using values from my Medieval 2 project, hence infantry size 250, missiles 200, cavalry 120.


    As for units costs, if my DeI formulas will work, then with help of Radious changing ALL unit costs and upkeep might take few minutes But for that I need to get unit stats finished, as formulas are based on them.
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  10. #50

    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    Quote Originally Posted by krunsh View Post
    Played some more. This time with higher tier units that all had shield wall, and it changed the whole battlefield (I guess it makes sense that the earlier units would be less organized?). I set my whole line in a shield and spear wall, with archers behind, while the AI did the same as last time, setting up archers in the front and not attacking right away (This is something I never saw in Rome 2, so it is making me happy.). Archer fires did some damage to my units, but at a much more acceptable pace. I marched them forward still in a shield wall to take the offensive, while my archers focused theirs.

    The AI then attempted a flank with they cavalries, but I was able to intercept them with a spear and my own cav (Bad move, but BAI will be BAI.). As my main line grew closer, the AI charged it (Sadly focusing on my 3 center units, allowing me to easily flank. Still though, the battle was slow and some of my axemen broke and later regrouped, forcing me to create a new line and engage into a second battle. This felt great, and I won with a close victory.

    Note that my inputs are based on my play style. I tend to avoid trying to exploit the flaws of the AI, and instead try to create battles that are fun to play and watch... Thus I may not be the best reference on balance. Still, this felt like the battle had a good pace (Very similar to your experimental pack, KAM.). Still hoping that the testudo makes it into your mod in the long run, but for now I am happy with shield walls and will only be waiting for the campaign values implementations!

    Cheers!

    EDIT: Maybe more importantly, no units stayed until the last 5-10 men before routine!
    Do Units now waver or route when they lost a lot of their comrads? in some vanilla battles they fought until the last man sometimes, which was pretty weird.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    Quote Originally Posted by KAM 2150 View Post
    People, please double check before claiming that my pack gives/takes abilities from units Except....next update which will take out most of magic abilites I also rebalanced unit size so next update will have it too I am using values from my Medieval 2 project, hence infantry size 250, missiles 200, cavalry 120.


    As for units costs, if my DeI formulas will work, then with help of Radious changing ALL unit costs and upkeep might take few minutes But for that I need to get unit stats finished, as formulas are based on them.
    do you think you can achieve this already in this week?

  12. #52

    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    just watched that video here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxpArC2Dfjo#t=359

    now i know why you say that morale is still a total mess.

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    It's nice to see you here for making the experience of playing better, KAM. Now I only need one little more stimulus to buy the game, a blood and gore dlc perhaps. And that avatar is Rollo, a viking? Thought it was some guy from Game of Thrones...

  14. #54

    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    Quote Originally Posted by jackless View Post
    Do Units now waver or route when they lost a lot of their comrads? in some vanilla battles they fought until the last man sometimes, which was pretty weird.
    Although KAM has specified that he is not nearly done tweaking moral, I can see that in my few tests, I have never seen a unit fight as long as they did in Vanilla. They broke when attacked in the rear or losing a fight over time, but never with such a low amount as it was in Attila (Closer to DeI.).

    I am sure that there is balancing to do, but without considering who is better than who, units broke from losses as they should be

  15. #55

    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    Quote Originally Posted by krunsh View Post
    Although KAM has specified that he is not nearly done tweaking moral, I can see that in my few tests, I have never seen a unit fight as long as they did in Vanilla. They broke when attacked in the rear or losing a fight over time, but never with such a low amount as it was in Attila (Closer to DeI.).

    I am sure that there is balancing to do, but without considering who is better than who, units broke from losses as they should be
    ok cool. thanks for the info!

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    Thanks for the feedback krunsh Yeah, It will probably take me around a month unitl this will be campaign playable, but due to experience with DeI I already know how to set some values to get what I want so entire process should be faster.
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  17. #57
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    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    Quote Originally Posted by krunsh View Post
    Although KAM has specified that he is not nearly done tweaking moral, I can see that in my few tests, I have never seen a unit fight as long as they did in Vanilla. They broke when attacked in the rear or losing a fight over time, but never with such a low amount as it was in Attila (Closer to DeI.).

    I am sure that there is balancing to do, but without considering who is better than who, units broke from losses as they should be
    I feel that in vanila Attila it's difficult to properly evaluate how morale works... because units die so freaking fast.

    Anyway, I just wanted to give my humble opinion on the matter, and it's that I agree completely (100%) with the fact that units have to break from casualities though it would be nice to find a balance between kill rate/morale shocks to avoid units routing/reforming every 20 seconds forcing us to keep repositioning units too often (clickfest) and also to keep the length of the battles enjoyable.

    By the way I would like to mention I'm a fan of KAm's work (particularly in DEI my favorite Mod by far) and I've high hopes on this battle overhaul!

    Thank you!!

  18. #58

    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    One month? What will I do before that? I'm so used to a DEI battles and never really liked other battle mods for a Rome II, and since Attila battles are horrible and campaign is very good, I don't know what to do about my next campaign.

    Maybe someone would be kind and recommend me a worthy battle mod which is around now ?

  19. #59
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    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    I would recommend using Radious for now, as maybe I might not agree completly with his balance ideas, his works is always well balanced within entire concept, without some gamebreaking stuff here and there (as it is now with my small balance). There are other battle overhauls, but either they change to little or have wierd ideas in my opinion like putting most of damage in AP (which makes armour values unimportant as AP damage is damage thay is always applied, blocked or not).
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  20. #60

    Default Re: Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.1

    maybe this close combat mod from Luntik helps to bridge the time to release?

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-23-02-2015%29

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