The Lord of the Rings movies, rewatching them again.

[Inhuman One]

I'm currently busy watching the LOTR movies again, its been some years since I last saw them, and it might be the first time I see them alone. You tend to notice different things when seeing a movie alone.

It's the extended edition that I have, so with all the extra scenes.

What I noticed is that, amongst the fellowship, theres little interaction. Even while the whole group is together, Sam is basicly invisible. He only speaks a little with Frodo but no one else. In fact most partymembers dont share any lines together. It also makes me wonder why they agreed to take all these hobbits with them considering how they basicly need to be looked after and may not contribute that much. Heck I am pretty sure they wished they did not take Pippin with him considering he nearly got everyone killed.

Speaking of the forming of the fellowship, during the council of elrond it occured to me that none of the guests aside main characters have any lines. They just sit there, which makes me wonder why they are even there in the first place. Could have given them some small lines.

Also, Aragon seems more boring each time I watch these movies. He's such a mary sue, aside from being hostile to Boromir, often for little reason.
Maybe the books show it better, but considering what you see in the movies its hard to see why he'd have any kind of bond with Frodo. First time he meets him, Frodo puts on the ring. He does chastise him for it that time, but later when he leaves to scout the area, those idiot hobbits make a fire that likely caused him to return, and when he is risking his life there fighting those nazghuls, he could see Frodo using that ring AGAIN.
I can imagine how that could be very frustrating. Yet they are suddenly friends.

Also, it is quite odd that Aragon would be reading a book at Rivendell in the room where his ancestor's sword is kept while he wants nothing to do with his past. You'd think it would be the last place he'd spend time.
He's also being a bit of a jerk to Gimli in the second movie, along with Legolas considering they sometimes speak elvish as they travel together. As if they deliberatly exclude Gimli from the conversation.

Speaking of Legolas, he's basicly some naive self righteous 12 year old, but somehow Orlando Bloom seems to often play characters like that. It does get a little on my nerves at times.

They are still great movies of course, and they are basicly responsible for introducing fantasy settings to the masses. But I do think they are not as good as I used to think when they where just out and I saw them for the first time, in my late teens.

[Mhaedros]

Indeed they aren't as great as they are often made out to be, but I still think they are good movies

Only one thing I can say really, read the books kids!

[Wulfburk]

I dont think Aragorn was that hostile to Boromir, in fact i think even though they had their issue when they first met during the council (considering the fact that Aragorn would pretty much put Boromir's father outta his job) they came to respect each other and knew what each meant to the world as a whole (Aragorn the heir and Boromir the finest captain of Gondor).

I say that mostly because of their interaction in lothlorien and obviously during Boromir's death.



During the council i agree they should have at least put some lines to the random folks and not just have the guys of the fellowship interact. Kinda the same problem with the Star Wars prequel that besides the main characters the only jedi that says something are Mace Windu and Ki Adi mundi... (though in Star Wars its much worse since all the random jedi are on the background for the 3 whole movies while in LOTR the random dudes are only at the council of elrond)

[Claudius Gothicus]

What I noticed is that, amongst the fellowship, theres little interaction. Even while the whole group is together, Sam is basicly invisible. He only speaks a little with Frodo but no one else. In fact most partymembers dont share any lines together. It also makes me wonder why they agreed to take all these hobbits with them considering how they basicly need to be looked after and may not contribute that much. Heck I am pretty sure they wished they did not take Pippin with him considering he nearly got everyone killed.

In the book there being four hobbits was a direct result of Gandalf's insistence, Elrond (the other mastermind behind the fellowship), wanted another 2 high elves or something along those lines.

Speaking of the forming of the fellowship, during the council of elrond it occured to me that none of the guests aside main characters have any lines. They just sit there, which makes me wonder why they are even there in the first place. Could have given them some small lines.

Time constraints I think, to explain extensively who everyone was and where did they come from in the first place (Iron hills, Mirkwood, Gondor through Tharbad, the Dunedain Rangers, etc.) would have been a hassle, just letting the viewer assume it would have created plot issues as well.

Also, Aragon seems more boring each time I watch these movies. He's such a mary sue, aside from being hostile to Boromir, often for little reason.
Maybe the books show it better, but considering what you see in the movies its hard to see why he'd have any kind of bond with Frodo. First time he meets him, Frodo puts on the ring. He does chastise him for it that time, but later when he leaves to scout the area, those idiot hobbits make a fire that likely caused him to return, and when he is risking his life there fighting those nazghuls, he could see Frodo using that ring AGAIN.
I can imagine how that could be very frustrating. Yet they are suddenly friends.

Aragorn is somewhat taciturn and reserved, he's a Dunedain Ranger after all... not very accustomed to chatting or being around people. He distrusts Boromir because he knows Denethor and the perils Gondor has been facing for a while (Aragorn has seen a lot), he's aware of the dangers, that desperation can lead to tempting "getaways" in the gondorians mind. There's a slight feeling of resentment and not-very-amicable posture between the Dunedain of the North and their gondorian counterparts, because of reasons.

Also, it is quite odd that Aragon would be reading a book at Rivendell in the room where his ancestor's sword is kept while he wants nothing to do with his past. You'd think it would be the last place he'd spend time.
He's also being a bit of a jerk to Gimli in the second movie, along with Legolas considering they sometimes speak elvish as they travel together. As if they deliberatly exclude Gimli from the conversation.

Yep, you are quite right in this one. Peter Jackson managed Aragorn's transition from leader of the rangers to actual "king" quite badly, for starters Aragorn leaves Rivendell with the intention of becoming king and wields Anduril.

They are still great movies of course, and they are basicly responsible for introducing fantasy settings to the masses. But I do think they are not as good as I used to think when they where just out and I saw them for the first time, in my late teens.

Agreed

[Condottiere 40K]

2352
Aragorn manages to shepherd the hobbits to Rivendell, during which he earns their trust.

Elrond doesn't want Sauron to win, probably none of the Elves that survived from the First Age do, which is why he wants to optimize the Fellowship's chances. But Gandalf is pretty much one of the higher ranked angels, so he defers to him.

[hellheaven1987]

aside from being hostile to Boromir

Did he? I don't remember particularly unfriendly interaction between those two.

He's also being a bit of a jerk to Gimli in the second movie, along with Legolas considering they sometimes speak elvish as they travel together. As if they deliberatly exclude Gimli from the conversation.

Man is that SJW?

Speaking of Legolas, he's basicly some naive self righteous 12 year old, but somehow Orlando Bloom seems to often play characters like that. It does get a little on my nerves at times.

Consider Mirkwood often prefers to be isolated, not surprise Legolas is not familiar about outside world.

[Inhuman One]

Wouldnt need to let it be known who everone is to give them lines at the council of elrond though. Could just have them say simple things like " I agree with Boromir" or " The Iron Hills support this decision" or whatever.. not something truly plot driven but more to padd things out and give the idea they didnt travel all that way for nothing.

Its mostly in the expanded scenes that Aragon seems a bit more hostile to Boromir, at least considering how Aragon seems to resent his own people whenever Boromir speaks of them.


Speaking of Boromir and Aragon, this time I also wondered.. what if Aragon had died, and Boromir had lived during the battle at Amon Hen?
That basicly their positions would be reversed there, with Aragon defending Merry and Pippin on his own and falling to superiour numbers.

It just seems like an intrigueing scenario to me, and here's how I think that might have played out then:

Seems to me that Boromir, Legolas and Gimli would be going to rescue Merry and Pippin. Considering how Boromir connected with them, I dont see reason why he would do any different after Frodo and Sam have left. It would likely require to rely more on Legolas for tracking them though, but I'd imagine they would manage.
They wouldnt know about Merry and Pippin's survival though since only Aragon could read those tracks. Would just mean Gandalf would tell them about it though when meeting him. I'd assume that even if they didnt go into the forest, Gandalf would find them.
I'd imagine at this point that Boromir might want to return to gondor, but that gandalf would persuade him to come with him to Rohan. Would likely be just the same, though I dont think Boromir would have stopped King Theoden from killing Wormtongue, so that would be different.
I gues the battle for helm's deep would be little different, would likely just go the same. Might mean King Theoden may be more inclined to send aid to Gondor even, considering Boromir's position in Gondor.
With no Aragon, there would clearly be no king returning in the third movie. No ghost army either.
I'd imagine though that Boromir would ride to gondor along with Gandalf when he goes there though, no reason for him to stay in Rohan at that point and his country would need him.
Would mean Denethor would not go flippin crazy, Faramir would not be send to his death, and I assume Denethor might trust Gandalf a bit more since Boromir could vouch for him. So then Boromir would be leading the defence of Gondor which I assume he would be more suitable for than anyone else based on a flashback scene where he is celibrated as a hero after a victory. The men would be inspired by him. And of course Gandalf would be there too, along with Faramir. So thats three leaders in the defence of the city, and no riders send to their death since Boromir would not allow such a foolish move.
Still a tricky one if they would be able to win the battle though, without that ghost army. Seems to me that Gimli and Legolas would travel with the Rohan army so they'd be there, and Gondor would be in a stronger position. At least they would be able to hold out longer so they would clearly not have retreated back as far as original when Theoden arrives.
Still.. its mostly those oliphaunts what caused the problem. But if they would retreat behind the walls, no more problem. Those Corsairs would still arrive though.
I'd say that in the end, the battle would be won, but it would be costly.
Not sure if an army would still be send to challenge Mordor though, I dont see Boromir proposing that idea. I gues by that point he'd join the battle along with the others, feeling he owes it to Frodo but maybe Gandalf would need to come up with the idea then.

[Påsan]

Wouldnt need to let it be known who everone is to give them lines at the council of elrond though. Could just have them say simple things like " I agree with Boromir" or " The Iron Hills support this decision" or whatever.. not something truly plot driven but more to padd things out and give the idea they didnt travel all that way for nothing.

Whats the point of cluttering things with unneeded dialogue and place names? They did that in The Hobbit and it did not work. The council revolved around the fellowship as it should be.

Its mostly in the expanded scenes that Aragon seems a bit more hostile to Boromir, at least considering how Aragon seems to resent his own people whenever Boromir speaks of them.

Its Aragorn mate, Aragon was a medieval kingdom

Also Aragorn had this whole "weakness of men" thing hanging over him, represented in Boromir who would use evil to destroy evil and therefore inevitably become evil.

Speaking of Boromir and Aragon, this time I also wondered.. what if Aragon had died, and Boromir had lived during the battle at Amon Hen?
That basicly their positions would be reversed there, with Aragon defending Merry and Pippin on his own and falling to superiour numbers.

Boromir would have returned to Gondor as was his intention, Rohan would have fallen and then everything would have been lost.

What I noticed is that, amongst the fellowship, theres little interaction. Even while the whole group is together, Sam is basicly invisible. He only speaks a little with Frodo but no one else. In fact most partymembers dont share any lines together. It also makes me wonder why they agreed to take all these hobbits with them considering how they basicly need to be looked after and may not contribute that much. Heck I am pretty sure they wished they did not take Pippin with him considering he nearly got everyone killed.

In the books it was a bit of destiny involved as elrond wanted to send elf lords in place of hobbits . In the films its more like they intended to send the six the volunteered, then the three hobbits barged in and it became nine instead.

Also, it is quite odd that Aragon would be reading a book at Rivendell in the room where his ancestor's sword is kept while he wants nothing to do with his past. You'd think it would be the last place he'd spend time.
He's also being a bit of a jerk to Gimli in the second movie, along with Legolas considering they sometimes speak elvish as they travel together. As if they deliberatly exclude Gimli from the conversation.

I dont get it, why was that odd. Also Aragorn never said he wanted nothing to do with his past. The scene with Boromir and Aragorn in Rivendel was to prove just the opposite. And I think you read too much into the elvish, I dont think they intend to bully Gimli

Speaking of Legolas, he's basicly some naive self righteous 12 year old, but somehow Orlando Bloom seems to often play characters like that. It does get a little on my nerves at times.

Legolas became the quintessential archer character after those movies. Basically a pop culture icon. There's videos on youtube with titles like "Pro archer shoots faster than legolas" Like he's become the official benchmark or something.

[hellheaven1987]

Wouldnt need to let it be known who everone is to give them lines at the council of elrond though. Could just have them say simple things like " I agree with Boromir" or " The Iron Hills support this decision" or whatever.. not something truly plot driven but more to padd things out and give the idea they didnt travel all that way for nothing.

I am under the impression that the whole fellowship thing is more based on individual decisions instead represent by groups, even in the novel. So ya it probably is more like your random Friday night D&D play instead with real group interest.

Its mostly in the expanded scenes that Aragon seems a bit more hostile to Boromir, at least considering how Aragon seems to resent his own people whenever Boromir speaks of them.

I don't recall that even in extended version; rather, the impression I have is that Boromir just act like an arrogant dickhead and hence everyone treats him like one.

[Claudius Gothicus]

I am under the impression that the whole fellowship thing is more based on individual decisions instead represent by groups, even in the novel. So ya it probably is more like your random Friday night D&D play instead with real group interest.

One could argue that the true circle behind the making of the fellowship was the remains of the White Council, with 2 specific groups backing them: the Dunedain of the North and the High Elves. Both were Eriador based parties with enough knowledge of the lore and enough information about the scenario (mostly through Gandalf and Aragorn) to craft a daring plan that none of the other realms could even think of.

[hellheaven1987]

One could argue that the true circle behind the making of the fellowship was the remains of the White Council, with 2 specific groups backing them: the Dunedain of the North and the High Elves. Both were Eriador based parties with enough knowledge of the lore and enough information about the scenario (mostly through Gandalf and Aragorn) to craft a daring plan that none of the other realms could even think of.

Yes but there is no need for Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, Boromir and that three extra Hobbits to attach to the operation team; all they really need is Fordo and Gandalf, and the rest just made their own decision to attach to the team.

[Condottiere 40K]

And stealthed giant eagles.

[Inhuman One]

Yet the council of Elrond could not spare some horses for the fellowship, it seems they where far more generous at Lothorien where they where at least given some weapons.

[Niles Crane]

You know I've seen Fellowship of the Ring damn near 40 times and I only just noticed on my last rewatch this:

Near the end of the film, as Aragorn approaches Boromir, he steps around some orcs. One of the supposedly dead orcs sits up partly to look.

I'm very observant.

[Claudius Gothicus]

Yet the council of Elrond could not spare some horses for the fellowship, it seems they where far more generous at Lothorien where they where at least given some weapons.

Elrond's way of throwing a gigantic "screw you" at Gandalf for getting away with the hobbit tantrum

[Inhuman One]

Whats the deal with Gandalf's hobbit fetish anyways? I'm very sure he grew to regret taking Pippin along. Lighting the beacon is basicly the only usefull thing he did.
I'd argue about saving Faramir because thats just such an incredibly dumb scene where appearantly no one realises that Faramir is not dead, and theres so many soldiers there. That and Denethor is simply too much of a moron to be a believeable character.

[Gaidin]

Whats the deal with Gandalf's hobbit fetish anyways? I'm very sure he grew to regret taking Pippin along. Lighting the beacon is basicly the only usefull thing he did.
I'd argue about saving Faramir because thats just such an incredibly dumb scene where appearantly no one realises that Faramir is not dead, and theres so many soldiers there. That and Denethor is simply too much of a moron to be a believeable character.

Farimir is knocked out and barely breathing insofar as on screen. What is implied in book is well, less and is more implied by Pippin's knowledge given he's run into that kind of wound before(re: Frodo earlier in the series). The soldiers, more specifically the guards of the tomb are following their orders from the Steward. Your main issue is you're treating a story written and structured as a myth and treating it as a story written and structured as realistic fantasy. Bad. What happened to Faramir and his appearance of dead or unsavable was the breaking point of Denethor and where Pippin especially steps up from his apparent uselessness.

[Inhuman One]

Its just silly though. Those soldiers would hear him yell "hes not dead!" just the same, might as well check ya know? Unless they hated Faramir and wanted him to die.

[Gaidin]

Its just silly though. Those soldiers would hear him yell "hes not dead!" just the same, might as well check ya know? Unless they hated Faramir and wanted him to die.

And how much of the heroic epic Illiad is just silly though? That's what LOTR is. It's a heroic epic. Get over it. Adjust to what the story actually is.

[Condottiere 40K]

4220
Denethor was an absolute autocrat, increasingly paranoiac, and certainly insane with grief by the end.4243


Edit - To reiterate, since the entire discussion on Peppermint OS/Firefox was deleted by moderation, I don't number my posts, the AI does that automatically, and it seems to only happen in the TWC Forum.