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Thread: Fall of the Eagles Features and Overview

  1. #41
    Maximus183's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    We have a decent set of swords and spears from CroC that we will be using for the most part, so yes the vanilla ones will be mostly replaced. A lot of the ingame armour is accurate and useful to us, while some is not. Naturally, we will use what we think is accurate and good looking enough and replace what we don't feel that way about as best we can

  2. #42
    Cavalier's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    Is it possible to mod in Formation Attack from Rome II to the Roman units?
    August Strindberg: "There's a view, current at the moment even among quite sensible people, that women, that secondary form of humanity (second to men, the lords and shapers of human civilisation) should in some way become equal with men, or could so be; this is leading to a struggle which is both bizarre and doomed. It's bizarre because a secondary form, by the laws of science, is always going to be a secondary form. Imagine two people, A (a man) and B (a woman). They start to run a race from the same point, C. A (the man) has a speed of, let's say, 100; B (the woman) has a speed of 60. Now, the question is 'Can B ever overtake A?" and the answer is 'Never!'. Whatever training, encouragement or self-denial is applied, the proposition is as impossible as that two parallel lines should ever meet."


  3. #43
    Magister Militum Flavius Aetius's Avatar δούξ θρᾳκήσιου
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    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus183 View Post
    We have a decent set of swords and spears from CroC that we will be using for the most part, so yes the vanilla ones will be mostly replaced. A lot of the ingame armour is accurate and useful to us, while some is not. Naturally, we will use what we think is accurate and good looking enough and replace what we don't feel that way about as best we can
    Although your Constantine mod has a lot of great swords from the Early 4th century, the overwhelming majority of early 4th century styles had been phased out by the time of Attila. Instead of Lauriacum-Hromovka and Nydam-type swords dominating, by the 5th century we're mostly seeing Germanic Type-1 Spathas (The Feltwell, some late Nydam-Mose and Thorsberg-Mose finds), with a few Roman styles (like the Trier Spatha) still remaining prevalent.

    @ Cavalier

    The Roman units don't have formation attack? That's horrid. The Romans still had the most effective and disciplined army on the planet, even the Barbarians by this time were more than capable of advanced strategy and formations.

  4. #44

    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus183 View Post
    We have a decent set of swords and spears from CroC that we will be using for the most part, so yes the vanilla ones will be mostly replaced. A lot of the ingame armour is accurate and useful to us, while some is not. Naturally, we will use what we think is accurate and good looking enough and replace what we don't feel that way about as best we can
    Thank the gods once more. Some of the shields and armor for the Romans along with the celtic swords have been one of my few historical annoyances with Attila so far. Any plans for an AOR? While the mercenaries in this game are better (imo) than the ones in Rome 2, my Kingdom the Franks might desire some roman or hunnic forces lol

  5. #45
    'Gunny's Avatar Überrock über alles
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    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    Is it possible to mod in Formation Attack from Rome II to the Roman units?
    I'm already giving Romans formation attack

    There are some strange things in Attila for sure, like formation attack only being assigned to two groups, and similarly, some extreme values in units stats, like some cavalry units with 200 charge, and falx units with 108 morale, which lead to a unit of 2 men constantly routing and returning. Strange things to be sure, but I want to figure out what of this can be used, because CA obviously had reasons for making the changes, so I don't want to copy-paste my work from Rome II, because that is frankly unfair to Attila and poor form. There is a lot of other cool stuff too that I look forward to experimenting with, I just need to make sure that I avoid unintended consequences by changing something I know from Rome II that operates totally differently in Attilla.
    Last edited by 'Gunny; February 19, 2015 at 01:21 PM.

  6. #46
    Cavalier's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    Quote Originally Posted by Magister Militum Flavius Aetius View Post
    @ Cavalier

    The Roman units don't have formation attack? That's horrid. The Romans still had the most effective and disciplined army on the planet, even the Barbarians by this time were more than capable of advanced strategy and formations.
    Yeah, I was quite shocked when I started the game for the first time. It's like early Rome II again. I made a polite complaint at the official forums, but I figure that the modders here are able to do something about it as well!

    @Gunny: Sounds fantastic mate

    EDIT: Oh, and I was wondering if you could do something about agents similarily as you have it in DeI where agents are very limited and nerfed. I personally made a mod that removes all agents, but that's quite extreme I suppose, and I don't have the knowledge to just reduce the AI agent spam/overpowered agents.
    Last edited by Cavalier; February 19, 2015 at 02:04 PM.
    August Strindberg: "There's a view, current at the moment even among quite sensible people, that women, that secondary form of humanity (second to men, the lords and shapers of human civilisation) should in some way become equal with men, or could so be; this is leading to a struggle which is both bizarre and doomed. It's bizarre because a secondary form, by the laws of science, is always going to be a secondary form. Imagine two people, A (a man) and B (a woman). They start to run a race from the same point, C. A (the man) has a speed of, let's say, 100; B (the woman) has a speed of 60. Now, the question is 'Can B ever overtake A?" and the answer is 'Never!'. Whatever training, encouragement or self-denial is applied, the proposition is as impossible as that two parallel lines should ever meet."


  7. #47

    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    cai_personality_budget_allocations

    Change the agent columns to lower numbers or 0.

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  8. #48
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    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    I know you're not doing a different Scenario, but considering that the Attila start is historically inaccurate, will you be improving it?

  9. #49

    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    Dresdan, this looks great! Please on ur modding travels address the terrible roman infantry general (tier 1) they are useless lol, from a historical aspect wouldnt the elite romans not be on horseback?

  10. #50
    'Gunny's Avatar Überrock über alles
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    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    Quote Originally Posted by Magister Militum Flavius Aetius View Post
    I know you're not doing a different Scenario, but considering that the Attila start is historically inaccurate, will you be improving it?
    We were by and large hoping to avoid major startpos editing, but what sort of issues are you thinking of?

  11. #51
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    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    Well from what I've heard the WRE is severely broken at the start. The Suebes are inside the empire (when they should be settled on the Danubian bend where the Quaddi are), all the provinces are on the verge of revolt, and the army is pathetic and already breaking your economy. I've read Africa and Britain have to be abandoned at start, which makes no sense because Africa was the lifeblood of the Empire. And the Visigoths need to be moved North of Dyrrhachium and East of Salona, at the fringes of Illyria et Dalmatia.

    The Huns are in the wrong place (they should be on the River Don, not in Belarus), the Bastarnae need to be replaced by the Heruli, the Scirii need to be added where the Gepids currently are, umm... a lot more. The Grethungi need to be renamed to the Tetraxitae (because the Grethungi joined the Tervingi and helped form the Visigoths) and the Ostrogoths need to be renamed to the Amali and settled North of the Danube, not south of it in Roman lands. The Alans also need to be in Sarmatica Asiatica next to Abasgia, as well as be on the Dniester like they currently are. the Marcomanni need to be removed and the Rugii placed where they are, with the Rugii filled in by the Aestii, the Lugians need to be removed and the Langobards moved there. The Burgundians need to be moved to where the Langobards currently are, the Magyars and Bundinians need to be removed and replaced with the Akatir and Onogur (or maybe Saragur) Huns. Parthia should be replaced with the Kidaritae (Red Huns). The Franks should be in Germania II (Colonia Agrippina) and the Frisii placed in Flevum. The Gepids need to be moved East of where the Quaddi are on the Danubian bend. The Veniti need to be where the Huns are, the Sclaveni need to be where the Roxolanians are, the Roxolanians need to be next to the Iazyges.

    The emergent factions all need to be redone as well, there should only be a few: the Litaui in Wales, Eburac in York, the Romano-British in London, the Aremoriciani in Britanny, a recurring "Bacaudae", which were organized rebellions under the local administration and landlords, and of course a recurring "usurper" faction.

    Unfortunately the map doesn't go far enough east to flesh out the Kidarites, add the Avars, Khwarzem and Hepthaltites, or add the Guptas.

    I don't own the game yet (waiting for it to go on sale first).
    Last edited by Magister Militum Flavius Aetius; February 19, 2015 at 04:04 PM.

  12. #52

    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    Is there an ETA on the first release? I imagine it will take some time for models and skins to be implemented, but I'd love to have a taste of what you guys plan to do with the battle balance (I want my DeI asap! )

  13. #53

    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    Quote Originally Posted by krunsh View Post
    Is there an ETA on the first release? I imagine it will take some time for models and skins to be implemented, but I'd love to have a taste of what you guys plan to do with the battle balance (I want my DeI asap! )
    We have no timetable yet, we are working on it though This won't be DeI by any means, however. The battles will be more like DeI most likely, but that is 'Gunny's area that he is working on currently. Also, the units will be historical and very well done (so it will be like DeI in that regard as well). But, we don't plan on having nearly as much campaign and other editing. The hope is to make this a light overhaul that is compatible with other mods.

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  14. #54
    Black9's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    Quote Originally Posted by Dresden View Post
    We have no timetable yet, we are working on it though This won't be DeI by any means, however. The battles will be more like DeI most likely, but that is 'Gunny's area that he is working on currently. Also, the units will be historical and very well done (so it will be like DeI in that regard as well). But, we don't plan on having nearly as much campaign and other editing. The hope is to make this a light overhaul that is compatible with other mods.
    That's exactly what I want to hear! I think CA did a great job with Attila, incorporating what a lot of other mods did anyway. More accurate (and less homogenized) rosters and improved battle mechanics is all it needs to be just about perfect, I feel. Maybe some startpos edits to get the map looking like it actually did, like Flavius Aetius said above, but that's minor by comparison. I assume that with the changed rosters that upgrading levy units to elites as the game goes on will be done away with?

  15. #55

    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    Omg just as I was asking for leg guards I got one but is it possible to make the leg guards plate armor like instead of cloth armor like?

  16. #56
    Magister Militum Flavius Aetius's Avatar δούξ θρᾳκήσιου
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    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    From my modding experience, changing faction start positions, and a few faction names, isn't overly difficult: it's basically a matter of getting map coordinates and city reassignment.

    But I have not modded the Rome 2 engine before.

  17. #57
    Hresvelgr's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    Quote Originally Posted by Magister Militum Flavius Aetius View Post
    They use Sassanid and Half-Kushan/Half-Avar fantasy hybrids for the most part from what I've seen. The armor is mostly Hollywood fantasy mongol armor. I haven't seen any detailed shots of belts, swords, etc, but they seem to be mostly fantasy or out of the time-frame as well.

    Even the famous Niederstotzingen-type, shown below, dates only until after 550 (this pattern of Lamellar was introduced by the Avars, aka a splinter of the Hepthaltites in Central Asia):
    Ah, I see. Incidentally, one of the units in the Huns' roster is Avar horsearchers, although oddly they look less Asian than the rest of the Huns. There's also a couple of units with what looks to me like armor I've seen in depictions of the Xiongnu, although I don't know where the leather helmets come from nor why they use leather cuirasses so much more than mail shirts. There's also one unit that has some Roman helmets, the Unnigarde, though the only historical reference I can find on them is to a unit of horsemen in Roman service that apparently may have been Huns.
    I'm not crazy, I'm the only one who's not crazy!


  18. #58
    'Gunny's Avatar Überrock über alles
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    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    I feel bad, because I really am trying to fit battle stuff into Attila for compatibility sake, but I really really do not like some of the design decisions. I don't like how massive hp is and how low armor is. I have serious concerns about some units have over 100 morale, and others with several hundred charge bonus. I can somewhat understand these decisions but they still perplex me. The more I work on it, the more I'm worried I won't be able to make it as compatible as I would like.

  19. #59
    Magister Militum Flavius Aetius's Avatar δούξ θρᾳκήσιου
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    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    Quote Originally Posted by Hresvelgr View Post
    Ah, I see. Incidentally, one of the units in the Huns' roster is Avar horsearchers, although oddly they look less Asian than the rest of the Huns. There's also a couple of units with what looks to me like armor I've seen in depictions of the Xiongnu, although I don't know where the leather helmets come from nor why they use leather cuirasses so much more than mail shirts. There's also one unit that has some Roman helmets, the Unnigarde, though the only historical reference I can find on them is to a unit of horsemen in Roman service that apparently may have been Huns.
    The Unnigarde were a unit of Foederati in Roman service recorded by Synesius, it was 240 Huns fighting in Cyreniaca (Libya). I'm personally surprised they even added them. But the use of Roman helmets is not inaccurate, ridge helmets were widely available and the Concesti helmet was found in a Hunnic burial.

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Gunny View Post
    I feel bad, because I really am trying to fit battle stuff into Attila for compatibility sake, but I really really do not like some of the design decisions. I don't like how massive hp is and how low armor is. I have serious concerns about some units have over 100 morale, and others with several hundred charge bonus. I can somewhat understand these decisions but they still perplex me. The more I work on it, the more I'm worried I won't be able to make it as compatible as I would like.
    IT should be the opposite. HP should be low (it didn't take much to take an enemy out of the fight, a stab in the foot back then was just as effective as stabbing someone in the guts), but armor should be high (maile made for primary defense was virtually impenetrable, and scale and lamellar were tough stuff to beat too.)

    It sounds like the morale and charge bonuses need to be balanced more.

  20. #60

    Default Re: [WIP] Fall of the Eagles

    Will you guys also be working on changing the towers from machine guns to actual bow and arrows also? Also any hope for AOR or does that require a startpros thingy?

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