WRE survival tactics, post your ideas

[Aenima]

- The Caledonians razed Segontium but I subjugated their town and they're now a loyal vassal (wow, +100 relations on the same turn that I conquered them! Awesome) and they've got a powerful army so I'm confident that Britain has a strong northern buffer in Caledonia - I'm wishing I'd subjugated them before they reached Segontium, but oh well. I lost Camuludunum to the Jutes, but the emperor is in Londinium with a few Limitanei soldiers, who I've found are strong AF so I'm confident I'll be able to hold it whilst the northern army comes south.
- In Gaul I've repelled a few Saxon attacks, and also combined my armies there to wipe out the Suebi horde in a single battle. I hired local troops and mercs to do it, but I disbanded them after that and now have nothing to worry about RE barbarians in the western portion of my empire.
- In Africa I'm moving the Spanish legion to defend the northern coast, but the African legion is fighting the Garamantes, so far kicking arse.
- The Ostrogoths have been wiped out, but have looted a couple of settlements and liberated Illyria, and the Danubian hordes are a problem at the moment
- Barely making any money, public order is still a problem and food shortages hit when the barbarians raze settlements


That's my current experience of the WRE. As was said, I always manually fight battles, even ones I'm doomed to lose. I can regularly kill upwards of 400 men where the AI could only kill 50-100, and it's thanks to such attrition that I was able to wear down the Ostrogoths and wipe them out.

Limitanei were terrible in BI but I absolutely adore them in this. They hold the line incredibly well, excellent for allowing cav or missiles to hit the enemy flanks. For defensive battles I'm fond of basically campaign at towers and letting a mix of tower fire/infantry/cavalry wear down if not destroy the enemy. Nooby as tower-camping may be, makes more sense than holding the centre.

That said, on the economic side of things I'm struggling. I built some trade jetties in Magna Graecia and Massilia, but with my army upkeep I'm barely making more than a few hundred a turn. I don't want to abandon settlements, though, since they serve to wear down the advancing enemy armies, and besides, losing food/income that towns generate seems like it would do more harm than good.

[Lothar135]

First of all I want to say this is one the best campaigns I have ever played in total war series. The desperate and pointless fighting with numerous hordes, without money, without armies...and without hope...at least so far. I play on hard.

My tips:

1) Abandon Britain - no, cant be held
2) Keep Africa - Carthage. Burn the rest. Be friendly with that one african tribe just south to carthage. They can be helpful against rebels and other tribes.
3) Spain - I believe it can be held with strong garrison, most of the barbarian attacks go to Gaul.
4) Italy - You need more than one army, there is too many possible routs into italy so block them with units close to settlements (for garrison reinforcements)
5) Dalamtia and Alps - abandon...burn
6) Gaul - this is the trickiest, i am unable to held it for long because multiple armies are coming from the north, east and also west (many armies go through sea from Ireland and britain). I only survived in south France (Narbonensis) and partially in Aquitania. I am prepared to abandon aquitania, the attacks here are too numerous and the province is too stretched.


Buildings - a bit dissapointing. You only have few places for buildings in every city and you NEED farm, two public order buildings (one will not due) and one health building. So there is not really room for all that interesting buildings which are in this game..pitty. But apart from this, the game is great! It easily exceeded my expectations

P.S. The music in menu is just fabulous

[zowrath]

Started a game as WRE this evening, still just trying out TWA and getting used to it. Had two unfinished campaigns as Vikings, quit because I wanted to try other factions. Well, I did what I would have done if I had commanded those lands for real. I burned Spain, France except the southern 3 provinces, England except the three southern ones, anything north of the Alps and east of Italy and the islands between Spain and Italy. So I got southern England, southern France, Africa and Italy. It gave me 55000 gold for my coffers at turn 2, rebellions were put down and I fought a defensive campaign at those that still tried to come for me. I managed to subjugate the Suebi, who now loves me to bits and are situated in the Alps. So they are a buffer as well. Scorched earth tactics.

Going to be exciting to see how this one turns out, but so far it is promising. Factions far from the buffer zone made peace, some of the Hordes as well. The Sahara factions went to war, but I've not had much issue holding them at bay and one sued for peace after a rather failed attempt at a naval landing. BAI still has its issues.

[Aethyr]

It sounds as though burning off everyone you don't want in one turn is better than slowly burning it off over time - seeing that I only really want to hold Italy, Spain and North Africa I am considering doing just that; putting my legions in the best locations possible for putting down the inevitable dissent, and burning off evvvverything in one fell swoop.

[zowrath]

Observation. Some threads here and other places has said that the AI does not handle razed provinces very well. Well, it's 402 AD and the Suebians that still love me and are my puppet just in a few turns populated four provinces in France, now having five provinces in total. Maurians went and populated a province in Spain. So burning the land will attract new settlers in the end, and it seems sooner than we thought. Thankfully for me, as I said, the Suebians are really fond of me so I got a steady ally there and I do not really mind if they take France as I can need their support when moving Northward later on. :-)

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

How about holding up all invasion armies in Britannia at Hadrians Wall? Apperently it is represented as an impassable chasm of nothingness on the campaign map so that seems like a good point of defense...

[raphael]

Im at 430 AD and in stuck in that many factions are declaring war on me and no one seems to wanna make peace. I am at war with the whole east (sasssinids declared war on me) ERE is almost gone and huns have 5 stacks right outside ravenna (not at war with huns yet) i'm holding about 6-7 fully trained stacks of legions and i wanna wipe out the huns but i cant do so because my borders are being threatened. any help?

[Dalgaard]

the men are broken and running from their wives

[Theo]

What army compositions are people using? I have 3 stacks in my legendary WRE campaign atm. They're mostly Western Auxilia Palatina and Legios. I have maybe 3 merc cavalry and 4 skirmishers between all of them.

Are people finding Sagittarii useful? They're the only archer unit and take 2 turns to recruit so they mush be decent right?

[c.ryo]

What army compositions are people using? I have 3 stacks in my legendary WRE campaign atm. They're mostly Western Auxilia Palatina and Legios. I have maybe 3 merc cavalry and 4 skirmishers between all of them.

Are people finding Sagittarii useful? They're the only archer unit and take 2 turns to recruit so they mush be decent right?

My unit composition is 4 bowmen units, 4 sword infantry, 3 horsemen, rest are spears.

I find bowmen essential as they are perfect to counter enemy archers and various skirmisher horse archers especially in many many many defense battles i have.

[the herald]

My tactic: Raze everything in Gaul, Britain and the Balkans. This gives you a lump sum of 50k and an income around 12k per turn (way less corruption in your actual money making cities) but just as importantly it gives you a huge buffer. Use the cash to mobilize and stabilize your empire through troops and buildings. Ride out the next 5-10 turns of rebellions caused by the razing. Now bunker down in Spain and Italy and hold off the hordes while your empire quickly upgrades its settlements with the high income.

Build strong border towns near the Spanish northern border and in northern Italy, spend money and time gaining good relations with the 3 African tribes, they will make you a great deal of money through trading. When you have a decent income and a stable population begin expanding, hopefully you have an income in the range of 20k per turn and maybe half a dozen strong armies. Might want to do the conquering after Attila is dead because you'll need men in the east until he dies.

You'll want to spend money and time building better relations with other factions so set aside money for that purpose. Trade pulls in tons of money per turn and you'll need them. I'm currently making around 15k per turn on trade alone.

[DavidG]

I did something i bit odd. I Pulled all my armies to Britain I took ireland and Scotland. I abandoned everything else. So all i have is the UK. Very soon i will be ready to start retaking Gual.

Crazy tactic i know.

I like this! Sometimes crazy is good :-)

[YMIL]

Ok I have survived until 406 AD with the WRE Hard difficulty. So far so good however the Sassanids are abosulty wrecking the ERE and I feel I am next.

But that doesnt matter, what I did to survive was:
Sell all armies except:
The one in Spain, fill this army 20/20 as fast as possible. This is to fend off barbarian hordes and roman faction and rebels spawns.
The army in RAETIA ET NORICUM move this one immediately into Italy to prevent any of the barbarian hordes attacking your Italian provinces which is very important

Next I put all possible governers into Spain, as spain in my opinion is the best defensible place in the WRE, no southern desert factions that might betray you and no barbarian hordes out to raid your territories, at least not directly so, later when you have lost France they will come but you will be prepared.
Then bide your time by upgrading your provinces in Spain and a bit in Africa. When you feel comfortable you can start building your armies. I feel that one of the main problems that I did not recognise early enough is that you must maintain peace with the barbarian factions on the british isles else they will raid Spain into the ground.

However I am not sure I want to continue this campaign, as I can fend off the Huns and the barbarian hordes, but the Sassanids are coming which have an army as big as me. No other factions comes even close to us. We both have 120 units and around 8 armies, the 3th faction has about 70 and does not even compare in army strenght. However the Sassanids have a cash pile of 300000 gold which makes me suspect that they are all but unbeatable at this point. I currently have an income around 5000 which was 10000 but this is due to the fact that the Huns razed venetia.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Also DO NOT raze or burn any of your provinces, let the barbarians sack them again and again. They will serve as a buffer.

[Ashu-Siralis]

So we just completed our first WRE Legendary difficulty live stream, and here are the tactics:

We torched the entirety of Britannia, Gaul, Africa, and the areas east of Venetia. We only kept a couple of southern provinces in gaul to connect our territory. Next, we built up farms in each province and latin chapels across iberia. We fought off the ensuing rebels with our garrisons only, basically, except for a few cities. We haven't lost anything yet, and we're doing pretty well! Join me tomorrow for more amazing WRE action:

www.twitch.tv/admiralprice

[gregnaar]

So the emperor is a jerk, i have tried to get him killed in a glorious battle against the attacking saxons at the start of the campaign, 2 unexpected things happened. 1 i won the battle, 2 i got the message "our general has fallen" but he managed to survive. Is it posslible that the capitain of the guards died, or that jerk cannot be killed? Anyways, any advice on the political situation? Economy wise i can manage, even with the battles, but I just dont want to deal with civil wars. Should i get my ruler killed and let the heir succeed? Or is that an even worse idea?

[Ritterlichvon86]

He can be killed.

I agree to YMIL, that it is not necessary to burn any of your own settlements, the penalties coming afterwards (rebellions everywhere) are much too strong. Burning / abandoning your towns is one of the worst strategies you could pursue, since the return is way too low. What can be done is slowing the enemies' advance, fighting every defensive battle, pre-emptively striking enemies where they are weak, and fighting for every meter. Do not waste all your money on early sanitation, yes, diseases can be almost everywhere and mean that enemy hordes can catch them when conquering. They just mean that you get small PO penalties in the town and must see to avoid sick towns with your own forces. The small wealth or growth penalties are barely important, with the high corruption and not enough money to expand all starting slots anyway. Build up Legions early, keep them out of settlements as they'd get stuck in there, only fight when you can win, no settlement is worth losing an army over. Hide a Legion from a conquering force if necessary, and strike when the enemy army has set its eyes upon your next settlement. After a while, you can come out on top. Critical areas to combat in are Northern Italia and the Alps, the entirety of Gaul, and the African coast. If there are no Garamantians or other desert tribes, they cannot threaten you. If they strike your cities, go around them and raze theirs, then look to take yours back when their armies are out of town.

[Ashu-Siralis]

On turn 2, you end up having 60K gold and 11k or so in income. That's. . .not "too low" imho

[Ashu-Siralis]

Going live again for some WRE tactics! www.twitch.tv/AdmiralPrice

[Ritterlichvon86]

On turn 2, you end up having 60K gold and 11k or so in income. That's. . .not "too low" imho

I know mate, I tried both strategies. The first suggested one (don't burn your own lands) is still better.

Do it like me, play both for 50 turns and tell us what outcome was better.


P.S. I went with the "scorched earth" strategy on the second play, so I assume I was performing better during battles and management.
Yet, the first strategy was superior. Both times were on the same difficulty in order to be able to compare it (Hard).

[crowe15]

On normal difficulty for my strategy as the WRE I combined my two(2) legions in Hispania and Africa (recruit some mercs if need be) and conquered the Mauri.

Disbanded my legion in Briton and demolished (but not abandon) the buildings there.

I combined my 2 legions in Gaul , put it under the command of my Faction Leader, and proceeded to destroy the Suebians.

I combined my 2 legions in Raetia et Noricum, and Pannonia with Stillicho in command.


Then this was the most important part (and it's probably mainstream by now) use money (smallest amount possible) to get other factions to fight your enemies. It's very important that you succeed with this!

Franks attack Saxons

Angles attack Jutes

Ebdanians attack Caledonians

Lazyges attack Quadians

Thats what I did for those factions.

Try to get trade agreement and a non aggression pact with the Geats, Alamans, Garamantians, and Gautelians. Marcomans if you're luckier then me.

Use small gifts to placate the North Africans and Germans. Establishing amicable relations with these factions will help you in the long run.

Acquire additional funds by demolishing the christian buildings, you need the money else where, for your economy and military.

I demolished the garrison buildings except in Venetia and Maxim Sequani (they're useful).

Demolish the buildings in Dalmatia and Pannonia, those provinces are going to be attacked a lot, by goths, lazyges, Alans, Vandals, Quadians, Marcomans possibly, and the biggest of all the Huns. (correct me if missed any)

You can demolish the Urbs/Municipum buildings like I did, however I only did that if I really needed the cash. demolish the statue in Rome.



Focus your money on your economy so you can get more, you should have 3 stacks to work, seldomly spend money on recruits until you have a bigger income (or if you decide you need a few more legio/cohors for the Spanish/African Stack).

Try to buy cheap trade buildings like Marble quarries, wine orchards, salt works, DYES. In the Trade tab (In your Finance/Economic/Treasury) any Trade goods that are exporting [b]100%[/] should have their production facilities enlarged (In order works make more marbles, wines, olives if exporting 100% etc). Corruption does not negate your Trade Income!

For Research I rush for the Legio upgrade, (the tech that upgrades cohors to legio, makes them better, stronger), then I get Hereditary service to get a reduction in melee infantry upkeep, thus more money.

Then I invest research in Civic techs to improve my economy, classical philosophy, any techs that improve the wealth generate by x buildings.

Install governors in Africa and Spain (any provinces with very low public order), use bread and circuses to maintain public order. Use the funds you receive from your income, and demolishing buildings, to build forums and auditoriums to maintain public order (prioritize the investments in provinces with very low and/or degrading public order). After public order is secured, build waterworks and upgrade them to latrines when you can (grow your settlements as quickly as possible so you can maximize their potential as soon as possible).

Occasionally demand 300-1300 denarii from the ERE, they'll actually give you money.