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Thread: Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

  1. #1

    Default Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

    I notice in some of the Attila soundtrack there's some throat singing.
    I'm always under the impression that throat singing was more of Northern Asian thing like the Mongol.

    Has throat singing been a thing with Nomad culture? Even during Attila time?

    I'm always a bit confuse on the connection between to era of Attila Nomaic horde to the Mongol of China.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by aion2006 View Post
    I notice in some of the Attila soundtrack there's some throat singing.
    I'm always under the impression that throat singing was more of Northern Asian thing like the Mongol.

    Has throat singing been a thing with Nomad culture? Even during Attila time?

    I'm always a bit confuse on the connection between to era of Attila Nomaic horde to the Mongol of China.
    I do not know why they use it, but where you hit that topic. I did once a research about traditional dances and music across the globe, because I was following a thesis and wanted to know something about European dances/music of per-medieval times.

    A lot of interesting stuff came up there and in the last years a lot of musicians try to re-create old music, what is a science for itself, as it is not only about the sheet music.
    F.e. if you would hear old Frankish church music – you might think you hear a Chinese occult ceremony. Has nothing to do with the later tunes from the medieval times or the crusades.

    Theoretically it is totally possible that people did throat singing. You can bet on, that people back then were better singers than today, because you simply do not sing anymore so often (compare f.e. military songs from the last century to 600 years ago - there were choirs running with weapons around).
    The problem with specific singing is, that you need someone who comes up with that idea.
    It is not a strictly nomad thing, because with singing the only constant is the language you speak, but not the performance, that influences the music. The performance is only influenced by the environment where you sing and who is singing for what.

    In theory could the Romans be masters of throat singing. There is nothing that could tell you they could not be and it is very unlikely that you find any record that will say: We Romans do not do throat singing!

    You can make that up, with whoever you want to, but it's not a strictly nomad thing, even not in Asia and you can bet on that humans sing since they formed the first sound. Maybe the Neanderthaler was an excelent throat-singer as well.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

    Gregorian and Byzantine chant both come from the Late Roman Empire, although I sincerely doubt throat-singing was widespread, if it existed.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

    I think, throat singing is an early form of music (or game), and it was probably present all over the place, just like drums.
    As far as I know, even some Native American tribes (South and North) has some form of throat singing.
    The game tries to emphasize the Eastern/Asian origin of Attila and most people in the 21st century connects throat singing with Asia. 21st century stereotype kind of thing.

  5. #5
    Geronimo2006's Avatar TAR Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

    Most likely this is because of the Xiongnu theory of Hunnic origins.
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    Default Re: Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

    Lovely voice:


  7. #7

    Default Re: Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

    Also the Mongols claim descent from the Huns. The Mongolian word "Hunnu" or "Hun" (not 100% sure on the spelling) actually means "people," so that's another possible connection.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

    Tuvan Throat Singing was found after Russian conquer Tuvan Mongolian.

    wiki:The Xiongnu or Hsiung-nu were an ancient Eurasian nomadic people who formed a state or confederation centered on current the Mongolia.

    I said before: CA use Mongolian music and vocal to represent Huns, but it is okay that Huns is Mongolian ancestor.(Han dynasty vs. Huns on Mongolia grasslands, after Han dynasty won the campaign that killed Huns' Khan, Huns was divided two groups in Eastern Han dynasty period: 1. Southern Huns (made obeisance to the Han dynasty) 2. Northern Huns: escaped to central Asia, finally, they migrated to Europe and destroyed Western Rome empire.

    Mongolian music has three traits:
    1. Morin Khuur(horse head string instrument)
    2. Mongolian Long-song(woman vocal Long-song very nice)
    3. Throat Singing

    As a Chinese, Sharing some Mongolian folk songs.

    First video: You will like it.


    Second: video: has a little bit Long-song(woman vocal)


    Third, sharing some epic Mongolian songs.




    ............Because China ban the Youtube, some great Mongolian music can not be found on Youtube.

    However, if someone like oriental music but can not found any good sources go here:
    http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/f.../?id=299348412
    Last edited by Maximinus Thrax; February 20, 2015 at 02:37 AM. Reason: added YT tags

  9. #9

    Default Re: Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

    To be honest I can't shake the feeling that, just as I feel the whole "Viking" aspect of the Norse factions was hyped up due to the popularity of the TV show Vikings, the Mongolian throat singing of Attila/Mongolian aspect of Attila as a whole may be due to the popularity of the tv show Marco Polo, set in the Mongolian Empire in the time of Kublai Khan, which features throat singing every now and then.

    The way I see it, and perhaps wrongly, the following things have been included for the following reasons

    - "Viking Forefathers," hyping the Norse factions up as Vikings as a whole = appealing to fans of/somehow linking itself to Vikings
    - Throat singing = trying to appeal to fans of/somehow linking itself to Marco Polo
    - Availability of catapults for all factions/inclusion of incendiary catapults in just about every Rome 2/Attila trailer = appealing to people who want explosions in everything, trying to make the game(s) appeal to Saving Private Ryan/Call of Duty/Battlefield fans

  10. #10

    Default Re: Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aenima View Post
    To be honest I can't shake the feeling that, just as I feel the whole "Viking" aspect of the Norse factions was hyped up due to the popularity of the TV show Vikings, the Mongolian throat singing of Attila/Mongolian aspect of Attila as a whole may be due to the popularity of the tv show Marco Polo, set in the Mongolian Empire in the time of Kublai Khan, which features throat singing every now and then.

    The way I see it, and perhaps wrongly, the following things have been included for the following reasons

    - "Viking Forefathers," hyping the Norse factions up as Vikings as a whole = appealing to fans of/somehow linking itself to Vikings
    - Throat singing = trying to appeal to fans of/somehow linking itself to Marco Polo
    - Availability of catapults for all factions/inclusion of incendiary catapults in just about every Rome 2/Attila trailer = appealing to people who want explosions in everything, trying to make the game(s) appeal to Saving Private Ryan/Call of Duty/Battlefield fans
    Or, it is just atmospheric and sounds awesome and it is plausible that they did it so they ran with it. Marco Polo is also getting some very odd receptions. Fans tend to love it, critics hate it. It has a rating of like 20% on rotten tomatoes from critics and 90%+ from fans.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

    Thats a new one....... CA builded their game based on TV Shows........ I guess the outbreaks that occurs ingame was because the popularity of breaking bad crystal-meth theme....... Just to debuked this silly conspiracy, CA worked with viking theme two times before with MTW 1 Expansion and with Console game........ years before any Viking "tv show" hitted popularity.......... and throat singing was obvious choice for a game that focus on a faction with origin in central asia....... explosions well........... Michael bay secretly bought CA from SEGA....... its all part of a conspiracy :S
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

    Yes, the historical connection is plausible but not provable for obvious reasons.

    But it sounds cool and exotic at least. Fits the game theme well.

    I approve.
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  13. #13
    RedGuard's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ataegina View Post
    Thats a new one....... CA builded their game based on TV Shows........ I guess the outbreaks that occurs ingame was because the popularity of breaking bad crystal-meth theme....... Just to debuked this silly conspiracy, CA worked with viking theme two times before with MTW 1 Expansion and with Console game........ years before any Viking "tv show" hitted popularity.......... and throat singing was obvious choice for a game that focus on a faction with origin in central asia....... explosions well........... Michael bay secretly bought CA from SEGA....... its all part of a conspiracy :S
    so you don't think media in any way influences the decisions they made? its pretty obvious that they are heavily influenced by popular culture if you actually read anything from or about the game.

  14. #14
    Yerevan's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseArcher View Post
    I think, throat singing is an early form of music (or game), and it was probably present all over the place, just like drums.
    As far as I know, even some Native American tribes (South and North) has some form of throat singing.
    The game tries to emphasize the Eastern/Asian origin of Attila and most people in the 21st century connects throat singing with Asia. 21st century stereotype kind of thing.

    Exactly : it's just a technique. You can hear different variations of throat singing (I prefer to call it harmonic singing) from many different locations. It's just not very well known so people usually associate it with Mongol or Tibetans. Musicology is still a young discipline so we ll probably discover other traditions. A friend of mine use this technique sometimes while playing accordion, he is european but says he learnt it from mongols.

    The music in Attila is much better than R2, but I have the feeling its only after hundreds of playing that I will be able to decide if I like it as much as RTW or S2 music.
    Last edited by Yerevan; February 27, 2015 at 12:15 AM.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

    I believe they chose the Throat singing because it brings distinctly non-European tone and invokes a strong feeling of wandering souls and powerful heroes on a vast open landscape. Not only that but this is music of a people who could be seen as a close cultural relative, since, as far as I know, we don't know what Hunnic music sounded like. I think CA hit the nail on the head here.

    Here is some traditional Sami music from the northern parts of Scandinavia.



    i dont know why the embedding isnt working properly
    Last edited by ZarBoneD; March 01, 2015 at 01:26 PM.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ataegina View Post
    Thats a new one....... CA builded their game based on TV Shows........ I guess the outbreaks that occurs ingame was because the popularity of breaking bad crystal-meth theme....... Just to debuked this silly conspiracy, CA worked with viking theme two times before with MTW 1 Expansion and with Console game........ years before any Viking "tv show" hitted popularity.......... and throat singing was obvious choice for a game that focus on a faction with origin in central asia....... explosions well........... Michael bay secretly bought CA from SEGA....... its all part of a conspiracy :S
    Atilla more so then any game before it is riddled with (excuse the colloquialism) hollywoodism's.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sethology View Post
    Atilla more so then any game before it is riddled with (excuse the colloquialism) hollywoodism's.
    Every time I see this posted I have to reply with the same question: Have you even played the previous games?
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  18. #18
    Juliuscivilus's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

    The Last Roman dlc has still the throat singing theme.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Throat Singing = Mongol Theme?

    Throat singing ...it circulated in Tuva, Khakassia, Mongolia, Republic of Bashkortostan, Buryatia, Altai, Tibet, North Africa (!), and in some tribes of Indians.



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