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Thread: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

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    Brivime's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila



    Hubal: Total War
    A regional modification for Attila set in Arabia during the 5th-6th centuries.

    It is unfortunate that due to the inferior map of the Arabian peninsula in Total War: Attila the many Arab tribes and kingdoms can not be represented however this mod aims to add a new Arab faction in the empty city on the map and overhaul the existing four factions.

    An accurate representation of Arabia in antiquity is my overall goal with this mod as such I shall not initially be focusing on any other factions nor actual game play mechanics.

    The Arabs were a relevant part of this time line, they protected the two major empires, Rome and the Sassanids borders and the former was defended from raiding central Asian tribes and African by Arab foederati.

    The Appearance of the Arab tribes

    The Arab tribes were diverse and proud of their lineage, they categorized themselves into four colours.

    Aswad/Akhthar - The black Arabs



    The black Arab tribes are the descendants of migrants from the horn of Africa who assimilated into Arab society and became clients of other tribes thus being adopted into tribal Arab culture.

    Asmar/Asfar - The dark and yellow Arabs



    These tribes are mostly identified as Qahtani such as the Banu Kinanah and Azd, these are the migrants from Yemen who settled around the coasts with brown skin.

    Sa'ad ibn Abi-Waqqas is described as a broad man with dark skin and black hair.

    Abyath - The white Arabs



    The indigenous Arabs of North Arabia, Hijaz and the Fertile Crescent, not to be confused with the Red Arabs these tribes would have Olive and light brown skin such as the Bani Bakkar.

    Ahmar - The Red Arabs




    The Arab tribes with white skin and fair hair such as the Ghassanids and Bani Yashkar from Najd.

    Anas ibn Malik is said to have been a tall man with blonde hair and blue eyes.

    According to Al-Muwatta, he was tall, heavyset, imposing of stature, very fair, with white hair and beard but bald, with a huge beard and blue eyes.

    These tribes are the indigenous people who live away from the coastline in central Arabia and south of the Fertile Crescent and perhaps mixed with Greeks and Slavic people who settled in the fertile crescent.


    Siege engines in Arabia

    Siege engines have been discovered through out South and Central Arabia as well as in Hijaz though there is little mention of them North of Hijaz in the Syrian desert and south of Iraq.

    In 629 AD the Muslim army seized Khaybar from the Arab Jewish converts of that land, inside the fort they found weapons and a siege engine, it is believed these were being stored for sale at a later point or as a weapon of intimidation.



    Ladders were also used at the battle of Yamamah when Musailimah's forces took refuge in a fortified orchard the Muslim armies used ladders to scale the walls and open the gates.

    There is very little information on siege equipment in the early Arab forces and at the Siege of Damascus the Rashidun Caliphate employed no siege engines.

    Armor in Arabia

    It is narrated in the Hadith by Abdallah ibn Masud that chain mail was used not just for battle but for as a form of torture.

    ...the idolators seized them and made them wear coats of chain-mail and exposed them to the intense heat of the sun.
    Muhammad himself has been described clad in chain-mail on several occasions including the battle of Uhud.

    When Abu `Ubaidah saw the two rings of the Prophet's chain mail that had pierced his cheeks, he rushed and held the first one with his front teeth and pulled it out. Yet as it fell, it took out his upper front teeth as well, and the same thing happened to the lower front teeth when he pulled out the second ring.

    Muhammad, aged 60, was present in the valley and witnessed that panic moment 'when you turned your backs in flight'. Waring his chain-mail coat and sitting astride a white mule, the Prophet stood his ground with his dedicated bodyguard surrounding him.
    - The Leadership of Muhammad by John Adair

    The Arabs did not manufacture their own chain-mail that we know of, in most cases this would have been imported from Syria and Persia, the Palmyrene Clibanarii most certainly wore chain-mail into battle.

    Yemen however was known as a manufacturer of hardened leather armor of an excellent quality, likely in the form of jerkins and vests.

    Helmets are rare and would be in East Roman and Sassanid styles, small conic helmets would also be produced in Yemen and Oman.

    Arabs often wrapped a turban around their helmets to protect the back of the neck from the sun or they would wear an aventail.

    Men who could not afford a helmet would typically wear a thick cloth turban which would offer protection from the sun.

    Arab chain-mail was looser and longer than that of the Byzantines so that the wearer would not overheat, it was typically worn over a robe or tunic with loose trousers, cavalry adopted shorter tighter coats of mail so as not to weigh down their horses.

    Weapons of Arabia

    The Arabs fought typically with long weapons, long swords used by the pre-Islamic Arabs made forming tight formations difficult unlike their Roman counterparts they were often forced to fight in loose formations.

    The Arabs later dropped these long iron swords in favor for Indian designs, these swords would be up to one meter in length.

    Swords were manufactured by Arabs primarily in Yemen and Iraq but also imported from Syria, Persia and India. The swords from Yemen were renowned for their quality.
    Arab infantry fought primarily with the sword and the bow and the bedouin warriors especially had to be skilled with the bow though they used light arrows that were often ineffective against superior chain-mail armor.

    The Arabs in Hijaz traditionally used longbows and the tribes of Khazraj were renowned for their proficiency as archers, it was to these Khazraji archers that Muhammad lost many of his companions.

    Other more simple bows were locally manufactured throughout Arabia from palm and acacia wood, these bows were low quality though richer men could be armed with a Persian re-curve design based off of archaeological evidence.

    Such cost effective and low quality bows often sufficed as the Arab archers practiced firing in large volleys as the early Persians did, not at individual targets as some European cultures did.

    The arrow heads would have been made from Iron and Steel ones would likely be imported from Persia.

    Javelins (Harbah) were not common in Arab armies prior to their introduction by slaves from the horn of Africa, Arab tribes such as the tribes of Quraysh began to purchase these slaves in times of war for the sole purpose of javelinmen.

    Infantrymen also carried slings with them as a side weapon maintaining the tradition of the ancient Semitic armies.

    Arab cavalry was made up mostly of the very wealthy due to the price of horses, as such these men were well armed carrying lances that went up to eleven feet in length as well as short spears, bows and swords.

    "I thrust him with my spear, then came on top of him with a trenchant Indian blade," describes an Arab cavalryman's attack.


    Arabs adopted and mastered horse archery from the Persians, this practice would be found more in the tribes of Iraq and Syria than in South Arabia.

    Arab infantry used spears that were five cubits in length and made from local wood or bamboo from East Arabia.


    Shields in Hijaz were mostly made from leather, across Arabia they were made from wicker, small bucklers were also covered in hide from animals leather shields were also produced in South Arabia where the majority of the Arab's leather equipment came from.

    "We wore helmets and Yemeni leather shields...and glittering coats of mail having visible folds about the belt."

    Arab society in Antiquity was a warrior society, all the young men were trained in combat and tribes with forts would often use them to stockpile arms in case of war such as the Bani Ghatafan.

    The Sword was the most prized weapon in Arabia, it signified honour and heroic deeds in battle.

    Features of the mod

    The mod aims to recreate unique rosters for the Ghassanids and the Lakhmids as well as a shared roster for Mazun and Himyar and the new added faction of the Banu Quraiza, Jewish tribe from Arabia.

    If possible I shall implement the Horde feature from Attila to allow the Arab armies to set up camps and temporary settlements to reflect the nomadic culture and heritage of these tribes.

    If you have any other suggestions please let me know!

    Last edited by Brivime; February 18, 2015 at 02:46 AM.

  2. #2
    Brivime's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

    reserved

  3. #3

    Default Re: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

    Nice proposal, but would it not be better to incorporate your mod towards Attila vanilla, given its poor representation of Arab factions.

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    Brivime's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

    Quote Originally Posted by juanplay View Post
    Nice proposal, but would it not be better to incorporate your mod towards Attila vanilla, given its poor representation of Arab factions.
    Thanks and I'm not quite sure I understand that last bit.

    This mod will be for vanilla, it will add the Bani Kilab faction (or another tribe if I'm wrong about what the unoccupied city is) and overhaul all the faction rosters.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

    Mods that enrichen factions are always welcome.

    I am not very familiar with the limits of Rome 2 modding but adding Arab specific events, new constructable buildings and Islam as a religion in the campaign map would be nice additions.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

    Quote Originally Posted by Brivime View Post
    Thanks and I'm not quite sure I understand that last bit.

    This mod will be for vanilla, it will add the Bani Kilab faction (or another tribe if I'm wrong about what the unoccupied city is) and overhaul all the faction rosters.
    sorry, when i read this "
    Hubal: Total War A regional modification for Attila set in Arabia during the 5th-6th centuries." i thought the scope of the mod went beyond the game´s timeframe

  7. #7
    Brivime's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

    Quote Originally Posted by juanplay View Post
    sorry, when i read this "
    Hubal: Total War A regional modification for Attila set in Arabia during the 5th-6th centuries." i thought the scope of the mod went beyond the game´s timeframe
    Ah not a problem, just to clarify the mod stays in the Attila timeline, just enriches the culture of the factions in Arabia.

  8. #8
    Brivime's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

    Quote Originally Posted by Seifen View Post
    Mods that enrichen factions are always welcome.

    I am not very familiar with the limits of Rome 2 modding but adding Arab specific events, new constructable buildings and Islam as a religion in the campaign map would be nice additions.
    New tech and buildings are perfectly possible though I'm not sure about events I think it can be done.

    Adding Islam however is not something I plan to do as Islam doesn't come around for another hundred or so years but I do plan to make a Dawn of Islam total conversion set in 639 AD.

  9. #9
    Linke's Avatar Hazarapatish
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    Default Re: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

    Will you allow this mod to be used in overhaul mods?

  10. #10
    Brivime's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

    Quote Originally Posted by Linke View Post
    Will you allow this mod to be used in overhaul mods?
    I aim to make the mod compatible with most faction overhaul mods but I may allow a large scale mod (IE: Divide et Impera or Vae Victis) to use it so long as they give me due credit.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

    how will the Arab armies be balanced?
    will it be historically accurate or just a fantasy dream team?

    For some reason I feel like we will be seeing 7 types of Kataphracts, heavy spear, sword, axemen + the multitude of light infantry.
    I just kind of felt like they would be more light infantry and poorly equipped in the most part but when they advance more through tech (conquering rome and persia) they start getting better troops and etc...

  12. #12
    Brivime's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    how will the Arab armies be balanced?
    will it be historically accurate or just a fantasy dream team?

    For some reason I feel like we will be seeing 7 types of Kataphracts, heavy spear, sword, axemen + the multitude of light infantry.
    I just kind of felt like they would be more light infantry and poorly equipped in the most part but when they advance more through tech (conquering rome and persia) they start getting better troops and etc...
    Everything will be historically accurate, I'm not sure why you would think of 7 types of Kataphracts...

    You can see my OP for a brief look at the types of weapons and armor used at the time most infantry and light cavalry would be unarmored, other types of armor include padded cloth and as stated in the OP leather jerkins and cuirasses.


    Typically what we know from Byzantine and Arab texts the North Arabian foederati and tribal forces would be more leaning towards light cavalry (IE the ones that fought the Alans at Constantinople.) and lancers.
    Last edited by Brivime; February 16, 2015 at 10:00 AM.

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    AntiocustheThird's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

    So will I be able to get Mohammed as a General?

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    Brivime's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiocustheThird View Post
    So will I be able to get Mohammed as a General?
    No, the mod is set in the same timeline as the vanilla game but you could have a general called Muhammed if I find a way to mod the names.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

    I really think this is a great idea, and I personally feel that it's unfortunate more focus hasn't been exerted on the middle east, and Arabic culture in previous Total War iterations outside of crusades, and community mods.
    I've always been interested in the premise of taking Muhammad, and conquering the lands of Arabia, spreading the new religion of Islam throughout. Possibly being forced as the player to choose between a Sunni, or a Shiite faction in preparation of the ensuing chaos following his death.
    With TW Atilla's era in history and the new ability to maintain a mobile civilization, this may be the best oppurtunity to create such a scenario.

  16. #16
    Antiokhos Euergetes's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

    Fantastic ideas and great introductory research. I shall be following closely.
    حظا سعيدا
    Last edited by Antiokhos Euergetes; February 18, 2015 at 06:24 AM.

  17. #17
    Brivime's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

    Just a small announcement, I will not be adding the Christian tribe of the Bani Kilab as I was wrong on the desolate region. It is in fact Yathrib so I shall be adding the tribe that inhabited it from the 5th century up to the 7th the Banu Quraiza.

    This was one of the Jewish tribes of Hijaz and they were thought of in high esteem by the other tribes around Yathrib.

    The Banu Quraiza followed strict Jewish laws and claimed descent from the Israelites but practiced much of the local Arab culture it is likely they simply claimed this heritage and were in fact converts to Judaism like the Himyarites.

    In 627 AD the tribe violated a treaty with Muhammad during the war with Qureish and all the men in it were put to the sword thus the tribe was disintegrated.

    Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi: I was among the captives of Banu Qurayza. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.
    Abu Dawud 38:4390
    I think adding this faction will be interesting because it offers up a chance for new unique units as well as the addition of the Jewish religion into Total War: Attila.

    Banu Quraiza were also a well armed tribe, their trade was from farming dates and also storing and selling weaponry in their fort at Yathrib, they were known to the Arabs of Hijaz as "The people of weapons" (ahl al-halqa) .

    When the Muslim forces defeated the Banu Quraiza and gathered up the booty from their stores they reported that they found 1,500 swords, 2,000 lances, 500 shields and 300 suits of armor although the absolute largest estimate of the tribes manpower by the 7th century was 900 fighting men strong, this reinforces what we know about Banu Quraiza's trade in selling weapons.

    “The Jews were made to come down, and Allah’s Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men. As they were being taken in small groups to the Prophet, they said to one another, ‘What do you think will be done to us?’ Someone said, ‘Do you not understand. On each occasion do you not see that the summoner never stops? He does not discharge anyone. And that those who are taken away do not come back. By God, it is death!’ The affair continued until the Messenger of Allah had finished with them all.”
    Al-Tabari, Vol. 8, p. 35
    Last edited by Brivime; February 18, 2015 at 02:48 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

    Many Historians have wrote about Jews in Arabia at that time period and it is strongly suggested and in some instances claimed by those Jewish tribes them selfs in some form of writings and poems that they are decedent of the Jews that managed to escape from Nebuchadnezzar during the Destruction of Jerusalem.
    Banu Quraiza was one of 3 Jewish tribes in Yathrib along with two Arabic tribes that have settled there will before they did.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

    I'm curious to know, if you're Islamic, would it be against your religion to depict the Holy Prophet in a video game?

    I think this is a great idea for a mod by the way, I raised the idea only yesterday or Monday, when I saw that the campaign was only a century or two away from the monumental rise of Islam - which had some pretty far reaching consequences, like as far as Spain for example.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Hubal: Total War - a planned Arab overhaul mod for Attila

    Quote Originally Posted by barry12 View Post
    I'm curious to know, if you're Islamic, would it be against your religion to depict the Holy Prophet in a video game?

    I think this is a great idea for a mod by the way, I raised the idea only yesterday or Monday, when I saw that the campaign was only a century or two away from the monumental rise of Islam - which had some pretty far reaching consequences, like as far as Spain for example.
    He sorta answered that in post #14 of this thread.

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