Ideas thread?

[Arakorn]

That isn't much to come with...

[ccllnply]

I never said it was.

[Arakorn]

Then they probably shouldn't have. And it they used them in war (if they (still) existed that is), there would've been a mention somewhere, and they had probably brought them to Pelennor... But Apoc makes the final verdict of this, however I feel that there isn't enough information to justify War Elephant's existence in Harad's roster.

[monkeyman]

were the ents still around at the time of this mod or had they died off already. it would be pretty nice to have them as mercenaries in the fangorn forest.

[dre123]

I say in the next version the map should be expanded north and include the following factions

Dale
Orcs ( In the misty mountains)

[monkeyman]

well if you inlude those two factions then you should add arnor also since it was just west of the misty mountains.

[scannerfish]

I wouldn't mind seeing a full blown pike unit that uses the phalanx button .

[DCyDe]

i would like seeing an elfish and dwarf horde on the campaign map

[Aradan]

A map expansion that will include Dale, would of course include Dwarves, Elves and Orcs too.

Why would there be an elvish and dwarvish horde on the map? They have very small populations and they don't leave their homelands...

Phalanx formation is a very distictive and highly specialised formation used only by the Hellenes and only in the real world. It's too 'unique' to be used in a LotR context. Instead we're using the short-pike formation, which resembles it a lot, without being off-lore.

[cherryfunk]

It occurs to me that the Independent Greeks non-playable faction from the Extended Greek mod might work in FATW. It's a faction that represents all the Greek city-states, like Massilia and Syracuse, that were independent and not really unified, but that shared the same homeland and Culture.

You could use the same idea to create factions for the Free Elves and Free Dwarves; small, scattered, defensively oriented, but a real thorn in the side of anyone seeking to take them over. An independent Orcish Tribes faction might also add some real challenge to the map.

[monkeyman]

just expanding off of cherryfunk, i think it would be sweet if at a certain set point after the orcs are heard of coming back into mordor that the orcs tried to revolt in all of south-eastern mordor like the barons in kingdoms: britannia campaign. i think it would add some more diveersity to the game. if this doesn't fit the lore then it shouldn't be added then.

[Aradan]

In game coding terms, how is this Independent Hellenic City-States faction different to any other faction? They are considered one faction, with one common leader and a specific unit roster, and they only have their regions separated and expanded all over the map, right?

Sorry, haven't got my copy of Kingdoms yet, so I don't know exactly what the Barons do. But then again, the Orcs never really inhabited south-eastern Mordor, there was lake Nurn, that was worked by mannish slaves. The Orcs 'homelands' are in the mountains and their appearance to Mordor is confined to the plains of Gorgoroth (ie NW Mordor).

[cherryfunk]

In game coding terms, how is this Independent Hellenic City-States faction different to any other faction? They are considered one faction, with one common leader and a specific unit roster, and they only have their regions separated and expanded all over the map, right?

Essentially I think so, but the dispersed locations make it impossible for the AI to coordinate, so they act like a bunch of 'mini-factions' and tend to focus on defending themselves, although they do occaisonally launch an offensive.

[monkeyman]

Sorry, haven't got my copy of Kingdoms yet, so I don't know exactly what the Barons do. But then again, the Orcs never really inhabited south-eastern Mordor, there was lake Nurn, that was worked by mannish slaves. The Orcs 'homelands' are in the mountains and their appearance to Mordor is confined to the plains of Gorgoroth (ie NW Mordor).

well the barons at around twelve years into the game revolt in a centralized, random area in the english teritories in the british isles and take the settlements with the revolt. in their revolts they are hoping to unite together to get their share of power against the king of england and wish to have the irish, welsh, or scottish help them in their revolt. the other factions can give them some money or help them fight in their battles. now what i was thinking is that you could do this for the orcs after a certain while they show up in mordor again(given a set date). you could have them revolt in northeastern mordor at barad-dur and the black gates with large stacks to combat adunabar. if you do agree with this the kingdom of adunabar should have better units so they can actually put up a fight against the orcs and RK. also their settlements should have higher shadow cult percentage in their territories so they don't rebel to the RK as easily. i don't want to conflict with the lore at all or test you patience wit this idea so i'll end with it here if you do not agree.

also you mentioned man slaves in southeastern mordor. i don't remember seeing these at all and it would be sweet to see them as a unit.

[scannerfish]

How about this , give Harad a slight stat boost . The Umbar guard need it badly along with the spearmen of the serpent .

[Aradan]

@ scannerfish:

so they act like a bunch of 'mini-factions'

The thing is that they don't. Game AI treat them as a unified faction, with everything that means. And that can hinder gameplay in a bunch of rediculously complicated ways.

Every unit in the game has been given its stats according to specific formulas that take in consideration the game's battle mechanics, weapon type/quality/length/weight/quality, shield size/quality/weight, armour material/quality/weight/technology/distribution on the body, soldiers class, training level, factional/regional specialties and a dozen of other factors I won't tier you with. Harad troops are not meant to be very powerful, they are meant to be capable and mainly use numbers to overcome their enemies. Short answer: I don't think a boost is in order for any haradrian unit. If however you have any specific comments and suggestions to make justified by comparison to other units (since you don't know of course the formula we use), I'd be happy to see them.

@ Monkeyman: Truth is that this idea doesn't really fit with the lore... Plus doing that would mean using shadowing, which we found out is hardcodedly 'broken', in that shadowing factions can never win the game (plus some strange campaign AI behaviour). You're not testing anyone's patience, feedback and ideas is what we want and enjoy.

Adunabar already has very strong troops. They are the equals of RK actually...

The lands around Nurn were given to the slaves that worked them by King Elessar after WotR was over. So no more slaves there that would justify a special 'slave' unit. Those regions are now incorporated into Adunabar or are rebel settlements, with local military organisation.

[monkeyman]

what is a shadowing faction? i know that adunabar is one but i don't know what it means.

[Kamos]

From what I can gather its like the Roman Empires in BI and their unique rebels.

[cherryfunk]

Quote:
so they act like a bunch of 'mini-factions'
The thing is that they don't. Game AI treat them as a unified faction, with everything that means. And that can hinder gameplay in a bunch of rediculously complicated ways.

Like how? I've played RS and XGM extensively, both have these types of factions, and I've seen no examples of anything 'ridiculous.' I think the 'Free' faction idea is absolutely brilliant and creates a convincing impression of having a dozen or more independent factions on the map. What, specifically, have you seen that suggests otherwise?

[Aradan]

I didn't say that the 'independent' cities thingy causes a ridiculous behaviour. I said that it affects gameplay in ridiculously complicated and strange ways. Unit recruitment, army movement, economy balance, diplomacy etc. It is not broken or sth, but it doesn't function as a bunch of really independent states would; it's just how the engine works. AI manages the faction as an entirety, it doesn't schedule according to specific cities.


@ Monkeyman: Yep, what Kamos said. Shadowing means shift of city control in case of unrest, rebellious generals, introduction of the loyalty attribute etc, just like WRE and WRE Rebels.
Adunabar however doesn't have this with RK anymore, because if they did, then Adunabar would be unable to ever win the game. Do you have the relevant hotfix installed? (It will be included in the next patch anyway)