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Thread: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Mar 07 Update)

  1. #101

    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 14 Update)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandre Lange View Post
    Sorry, benlesagedu, I don't.

    If you wanna faster paced battles, just increase melee_hit_chance_base at kv_rules table (it is 15 now, used to be 23 in previous BDR versions; anything above 20 will increase the killrate by a good amount). The majority of changes in the last update are related to balance and fixes: very important but not game experience changer.

    kruma: I will rewrite the mod description as soon as I gather the strenght to do that. Last three days was only of work and modding (hours and hours), almost no sleep. I have an extended hollyday next few days, so I will relax and have some fun. For now, try BDR to exaustion and bring me your feedback, please.

    What a shame. There is something strange in that one (for me). In the last .pack there was melee_weapon table and attila_generated.txt. And it does not appear anymore in your pack. Maybe this is why I have this impression?

  2. #102

    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 14 Update)

    Animations table (attila_generated.txt) was not useful from some time now: just an idle thing I forgot to remove before. About melee_weapons table: I never tweaked melee weapons, so this one was never in BDR. I am pretty sure your impression is all about the faster pace BDR had before: higher killrate, higher unit speeds. And, if by 'before' you mean some days ago, you missed a good amount of updates, and maybe we are talking about different stages of development. In its origins, BDR was just fast and furious to make battles a challenge: don't let the player think, overrun him and cause as much damage as possible before he wins. Battles were more exciting to play and watch, but player had little control and no time to build tactics. Now BDR integrates some more elements that allow us to keep the challenge but give the player some time, control and tactical opportunities. Battles (maybe) are less exciting to watch now, but your actions are more relevant and the overall game experience is better.
    Last edited by Alexandre Lange; February 14, 2015 at 04:58 PM.

  3. #103

    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 10 Update)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silu View Post
    What do you like more? Both look very similar in their concepts. Can't test them myself, I'm waiting for my new video card. Total carnage sub-submod sounds great tho.
    I like more BDR because with KAM experimental I still get kd ratios like 2000 kill and 400 loses.

    I think its because kam put so much armor in shields so when you flank or attack to the rear of the enemy you basically slaughter them while your front line hold them

    In BDR battles are more deadly you have more losses and your first line can break if you don't pay attention. Is more challenging and there are a lot more deaths in player side.

  4. #104

    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 14 Update)

    Yes, PiscisFerro. This is exactly the brake point of DeI design of balance in my opinion: put all at shields. Shields at DeI are more important then units itselves, giving huge amounts of melee defense and armor. That way frontline holds a lot of time. We don't need reserves or even thick line, so we pin the enemy with few units and use the rest to maneuver to the enemy flanks/rear. And there, shields don't do its magic. Slaughter comes. While you lose 2-3 men at frontline, enemy loses entire units at back. Easy to get 4000 kills with less then 200 losses. Also, with that kind of wonder shields, shieldless units would be broken weak if math maneuvers was not made to give those units nonsense bonuses to balance them. A problem leading to another. BDR aim to eliminate those things, giving units and equipments reasonable stats. Here, if you remove a shield from a unit, it is now just the same unit without a shield, not a meaningless pile of remains good for nothing. In BDR the essence is the unit, the shield is just a tool.

  5. #105

    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 14 Update)

    *bump*

  6. #106

    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 14 Update)

    Hi again! Finally I tweaked it and that's how I want it. Thanks a lot, without this mod I'm not sure I would have played Rome 2 again... ratios like 2000 kill and 400 loses. are unbearable for me!

    Keep it up to date please

    Thanks a lot

  7. #107

    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 14 Update)

    And. According to me this mod should be an official Submod!!

  8. #108

    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 14 Update)

    I am curious about what you did with your tweaks, benlesagedu. Maybe people like and we can use something.

  9. #109

    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 10 Update)

    Quote Originally Posted by PiscisFerro View Post
    I like more BDR because with KAM experimental I still get kd ratios like 2000 kill and 400 loses.

    I think its because kam put so much armor in shields so when you flank or attack to the rear of the enemy you basically slaughter them while your front line hold them

    In BDR battles are more deadly you have more losses and your first line can break if you don't pay attention. Is more challenging and there are a lot more deaths in player side.
    All right, thank you.

  10. #110

    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 14 Update)

    Could you make a version of this mod for [Official Submod] Caesar's Legions Named and Numbered for EE DEI -

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-04-Scripts***

  11. #111

    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 14 Update)

    Never touched that mod, NiKuTa. I will take a look at it and try to figure out what it does with the tables. Later I give you an answer.

  12. #112

    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 14 Update)

    I'm using This
    @spotting_distances_mod
    @@@cinematic_combat_mod
    ___Rag_MOD <-- My mod that reduce ranged weapon damage 1/2 and actual range
    ___add_tc_bdr_for_dei
    ___bdr_for_dei
    @@@_Global_armor_upgrades_and_warhorse
    _Divide_et_Impera_Release
    MD_mod_SEEM_v1_5_Blood_afa_P9_1

    and it's a Bloody sweet !
    Like real battle field
    Not decisive by ranged weapon

  13. #113

    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 14 Update)

    Welcome, ragnar23. I am glad you found some use for BDR. I invite you to try BDR without your ranged weapons mod once or twice and see how you feel: BDR has already reduced missiles damage and range.

  14. #114

    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 14 Update)

    I've try your mod through my grand campaign. Ranged weapon kill ratio too high my taste. Melee infantry main role bacame gaurding ranged some kind. Since AI don't use ranged unit well as much player, by reduce ranged damage half battle is more difficult. And It's more historical I quess. Antient Battle should finshed off by melee unit.

  15. #115

    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 14 Update)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandre Lange View Post
    Welcome, ragnar23. I am glad you found some use for BDR. I invite you to try BDR without your ranged weapons mod once or twice and see how you feel: BDR has already reduced missiles damage and range.
    To be honest, I agree with ragnar23 a bit. Ranged weapons are a bit too strong forcing you to treat archers, slingers or skirmishers as the main threat to your army.
    I like this play-style but also having ranged weeapons them toned down a bit from the front would allow for more diverse armies, with lower focus on mobility (needed to deal with archers).

  16. #116

    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 14 Update)

    Ranged weapons STILL too strong after the last update? In all my playtests in custom battles, an archer unit could barely cause 30-50 losses to a heavy unit using all ammo (around 5 minutes of constant firing), and about 120-150 losses to shielded but unarmored units; more losses versus unarmored shileldless units, obviously.When ammo runs out, that's it for missile units: they kill little more, even chasing routed units (except for some more melee-able skirmishers, but that's their role). I see way higher missiles killrate in original DeI (where you freely manuever to enemies' rear and fire from there), my missiles easily get 300-500 kills without BDR. In BDR swordsmen usually get more kills then missiles, just because archers/slingers/javelinmen run out of ammo before they can get too much kills. I am a bit confused now, I really thought we had found the sweet spot. Sometimes the player's actions/maneuvers turn the tide of a campaign battle, and make a given well handled unit to shine. We have a problem when a given unit (or unit class) ALWAYS shines over all others. Could you guys do some more focused playtests with missiles at custom battles for further feedback, please?

  17. #117

    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 14 Update)

    In the battles i've played as sparta I seem to get 100 or even more soldiers killed by each unit of archers (IF i do not counter them fast enough, which I can't do this early). Probably has to do with the fact that I still have early units which aren't proprely armored. I will post more details as I go with my campaign.
    Keep in mind these are just things I've experienced and I'm far from being a TW veteran.
    I'm using the steam version.

    The advantages of arrows being like they are now is the fact that siege battles are way more challenging. Having a unit of archers able to shoot at enemies while they are engaged makes it essential when defending.

  18. #118

    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 14 Update)

    I must say that 100 kill per archer unit is just fine, a real good number.

    Yes, I have tryed some sieges: real challenge. That's why we don't need the magic supertowers anymore (towers fire normal arrows in BDR, same used by archers - as towers arrows ARE from archers in it - since last update).
    Last edited by Alexandre Lange; February 22, 2015 at 12:09 PM.

  19. #119
    DeathtoEgo's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 14 Update)

    I am interested in trying this mod but I use the Caesars Number legions mod and wanted to know if the units added by that mod would be significantly out of balance with the unit you've tweaked in BDR.

  20. #120

    Default Re: [Submod] Battle Dynamics Reworked for DEI (Feb 14 Update)

    Hi, DeathtoEgo. If the mod you want to use creates NEW UNITS, yes: they will be out of balance, as it should follow the DeI standards and I have tweaked all DeI units. Stats just work different in BDR. Good news is: we can adjust any DeI unit to BDR, so if you give me a pack with just the land_units and main_units tables from that your mod, I can give you back those units tweaked for BDR.

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