Medieval Total War: Still worth a go?

**simonscales** · January 24, 2015, 09:45 AM

Hello,

I'm a big fan of M2TW and especially any mods relating to the Ancient Era - currently I'm obsessed with De Bello Mundi, for example. I was just wandering if it is worth getting the original Medieval + Viking Invasion just for the mods available - I see that there is Hellenic Total war for one. A good idea or just a waste of my time/money given the age of the original game and (probable) lack of many recent or still living mods?

**Axalon** · January 26, 2015, 04:48 PM

Hi Simon,

It totally depends.... Understand that MTW1 is very different kind of game from MTW2. It can not, and will not, ever provide the same kind or similar game-experience - this both in a good and bad way. It has a (very) different focus, overall experience and style to it. MTW1 focuses much more on actual war and conquest, battles, tactics and field-command. Unlike MTW2, it focuses little on government, management, supervision, logistics and grand strategy. It is ridiculously superior in several regards while blatantly inferior in a bunch of others if compared to MTW2 or later TW-games.

MTW1 (along with STW1) is foremost a battle- and fieldcommand simulator, which you can somehow influence with a bunch of previous/prior strategic decisions/actions such as troop and general-deployment, -movement/transfer, -development etc. Its "worldmap" is similar to the risk-game, both in concept and application. You fight over whole provinces, not some strategic points, within or borders to a province (much unlike MTW2). MTW1-battles usually does take longer time to resolve/fight out, and are typically more complex and more difficult to master (the AI is usually superior). Its a game truly about war, battles, conquest and little else. MTW2 due to its heavy focus on government, management, supervision, development and grand strategy offer a very different kind of experience altogether, and it has, by comparison, little to do with actual war, battles and conquest (by MTW1 standards). The very focus, and what you are supposed to do in each game is very different and as a result the experience delivered by each game will be very different.

As for mods... Most mods are created with the goal of either improving/modify the raw/original game somehow or drastically change/alter it to something else. This is true for MTW1 as well. Obviously, not all mods/projects succeed with this, but some clearly do, and these (typically) few makes it, I think, very worthwhile applying and playing them - actually more so then the original game itself, for those very reasons (improving the default game or "expanding" the experience it can deliver due to changes etc). As always, the problem is to identify which of such works actually do fit the bill (in terms of general functionality, solid or high-end craftsmanship, healthy/working game-designs, overall stability and reliability, bug-absence etc etc). I think it is more then fair to say that some of that stuff is available for MTW1 as well, despite the overall quantity of work done for MTW1 is much smaller then it is for MTW2 at this point.

From what I have seen, the GFX-work on the units of HTW are nothing short of outstanding (by MTW1 standards anyways) and are very serious and skillful stuff - as for rest of it. I know too little about that particular project in order to tell if it is solid all over, or not (in terms of functional game-designs, stability-wise, overall reliability etc etc etc). Anyhow, the "Ancient TW"-mod for MTW1 is a spin-off from HTW, which might very well be interesting for you to examine as well. I don't think there are much else serious stuff made for MTW1 set in ancient/roman times. Of course, the are some other solid and serious work done for MTW as well, and I suppose that stuff will be some nice "bonus-material" for just picking up MTW-VI/Gold/Eras in the first place. In the event you do decide to do so...

***

Personally, I would never bother playing or working on MTW1 if I did not somehow think it was worthwhile to do so. Or, I could find or had found some other game that better provided that kind of distinct and superior experience it deliver on pre-gunpowder battles and field-command. Or as effortlessly as STW1/MTW1 does. I have yet to find any such game/candidate - and yes - I do own every TW-game up to RTW2, so I have tried them all. To me RTW, MTW2 and beyond are just hybrids of TW - not true TW - not providing that true and distinct TW-experience - as defined by STW1. The last true TW game made was, and still is, MTW1, as far as I am concerned.

Regardless, if provincial and micro-management, -supervision and -development and all that jazz is your big thing - then - MTW will probably be a poor investment for you. MTW1 is, and always was, a poor game for "statesmen, governors and diplomats" while for "generals, warlords and would be warrior-kings" its a magic and fearsome experience - even these days, and despite rusty GFX.

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**Jay the Byzantine** · January 26, 2015, 11:45 PM

Where can I buy Medieval and Shogun today? Doesn't seem to be on Steam.

**Axalon** · January 27, 2015, 07:54 AM

No steam versions are available at this point, only available on CD/DVDs...

Try nearest Amazon, it should be still available there somehow. Buy 2x used copies (to be safe), if you can't find any new copies. It won't cost much anyways. Also, keep in mind that like many other older games MTW (and STW) is likely to have problems with plenty of newer hardware and drivers, as is to be expected. There are a few unofficial fixes, and some mods can/might help in such regards - but it is never foolproof that it will still work on every machine, everywhere. Experience has it that older machines is what the MTW-engine really likes, ideally from around 2001-2004. ATI/AMD-cards will usually work better then Nvidia-cards (for some reason). W7/XP/2000 will typically run MTW1 somehow. On Vista it is apparently supposed to work (I don't have Vista). W8 don't seem to work, or that is what people keep reporting in....

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**Jay the Byzantine** · January 27, 2015, 09:13 AM

I have Win8 lol. But I guess it should work with compatability set to Win 7. Any info on the Linux+WINE compatability? I've spotted Shogun 1 on a secluded game retailing site. But M1 is not there. Anyhow, thanks for all the info! I'll report back when I get it in a few months after my exams.

**Stazi** · January 27, 2015, 01:30 PM

You can buy first Medieval TW here or here and Shogun here.

**roy_d_merkel** · January 27, 2015, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Axalon

No steam versions are available at this point, only available on CD/DVDs...

Try nearest Amazon, it should be still available there somehow. Buy 2x used copies (to be safe), if you can't find any new copies. It won't cost much anyways. Also, keep in mind that like many other older games MTW (and STW) is likely to have problems with plenty of newer hardware and drivers, as is to be expected. There are a few unofficial fixes, and some mods can/might help in such regards - but it is never foolproof that it will still work on every machine, everywhere. Experience has it that older machines is what the MTW-engine really likes, ideally from around 2001-2004. ATI/AMD-cards will usually work better then Nvidia-cards (for some reason). W7/XP/2000 will typically run MTW1 somehow. On Vista it is apparently supposed to work (I don't have Vista). W8 don't seem to work, or that is what people keep reporting in....

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I had some temporary success on my 8.1 Nvidia laptop using DxWnd, but then it broke again when they upgraded it a couple weeks back. The old versions I mentioned in my post should still work.

The game won't work on Windows 8.x out of the box though.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-compatibility

**danielrech** · January 28, 2015, 08:40 AM

Back to the topic:

Generally the big argument for MTW 1 is the AI, so these are my thoughts on it:

The campaign AI of MTW1 is the best in the series, for the simple fact that the AI defends much better in the risk style map, positioning its armies where they are really needed (no random roaming around like in the later games). Although it is totally prone to naval invasions in its interior coastal provinces, so you need a house rule for that.

The battle AI I find to be greatly overrated on these forums. I am able to beat it with about the same kill ratios as in MTW2, for example. There are some nuances that make it seem harder in the beginning, but eventually you will sort them out.

**Axalon** · February 04, 2015, 12:53 PM

Alright, I'll bite...

I have almost played 'em all, and in terms of the Battle AI (BAI), I have yet to find any (typically) better BAI-performer then what I get with with (STW1 and/or) MTW1. This in the world of TW-games. That is not saying that I can't kick the crap out of that very BAI, because that I can. Or somehow implying that such a deed would be particularly hard for me to do, whenever... It is merely saying that my experience so far, have been consistent, clear, and had little deviation, and that for a long time. As in, this particular BAI, as far as I can tell, does a better job on average in providing less screwed-up leadership/opposition in the field. That translates to a better challenge on average, due to making fewer mistakes on the field - as I understand it.

Personally, I typically have (much) harder time beating that MTW1-AI (or STW1) in battle then any of the others in TW (however that does not somehow mean that it is hard for me to beat MTW1 in battle, because it isn't, typically)... One big and significant difference is that I can still lose a battle against that BAI (on maxed difficulty) - that is, if I lose focus, if I fool around too much, if I get too daring/fearless (and especially, if some serious and alternative battle-systems and -models are applied to the game. Adding more complexity, diversity and factors in battle). In contrast, I have not had much of that (if anything) with any of the other BAI's save STW1, of course. So, I have a hard time seeing how the other BAI's would still match MTW1 performance, all the same? They don't (match it), as far as I can tell....

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**Jay the Byzantine** · February 08, 2015, 02:29 AM

How does the Medieval 1 simulation mod for medieval 2 work gameplay wise? Are they similar enough?

**NostalgiaFan** · February 28, 2015, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Axalon

No steam versions are available at this point, only available on CD/DVDs...

Try nearest Amazon, it should be still available there somehow. Buy 2x used copies (to be safe), if you can't find any new copies. It won't cost much anyways. Also, keep in mind that like many other older games MTW (and STW) is likely to have problems with plenty of newer hardware and drivers, as is to be expected. There are a few unofficial fixes, and some mods can/might help in such regards - but it is never foolproof that it will still work on every machine, everywhere. Experience has it that older machines is what the MTW-engine really likes, ideally from around 2001-2004. ATI/AMD-cards will usually work better then Nvidia-cards (for some reason). W7/XP/2000 will typically run MTW1 somehow. On Vista it is apparently supposed to work (I don't have Vista). W8 don't seem to work, or that is what people keep reporting in....

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Hey I want to ask, would Shogun Total War work with W7?

**roy_d_merkel** · March 05, 2015, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by NostalgiaFan

Hey I want to ask, would Shogun Total War work with W7?

I beleive it does on some machines with the button patch and some mods. I have no idea if the 2.03.03 dxwnd trick would work at all either, as I've only tried it on windows 8.x (I know on my brother's windows vista machine that method fails horribly). The best thing I would recommend is look at the various guides, I remember on one of these boards someone had a guide to windows 7 that you might try.

Also see if you can pick up a copy dirt cheap and try it with various methods to see if anything works.

**Axalon** · March 06, 2015, 05:46 AM

To fill some of the gaps on W7....

In my experience, STW can run on W7 very well - it probably boils down to the hardware and drivers used (I have an AMD-card, which usually is better for these games - for some reason). I have been able to run STW ever since I switched to W7 pro (64bit) in 2011. Same goes for MTW1 but that is unstable and creashes repeatedly (for me) without fixes and/or mods applied (buttonfix, Redux and the like... Never needed such stuff to make STW run smoothly)...

Originally Posted by roy_d_merkel

Also see if you can pick up a copy dirt cheap and try it with various methods to see if anything works.

What he said...

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**Cuong Vu** · March 15, 2015, 03:25 AM

I haven't played MTW 1 for quite a long time. However, I always love this game and will return to it somedays.

Several features that are forgotten by later games, yet I remember very clear despite after all these years:

- Civil wars: This is the most disturbing factor if you create a large empire. I used to play France and expanded my frontier to what is now Hungary, and then suddenly there erupted a civil war which fragmented my whole empire. This coincides with the year in which the Swiss emergence. Later I had to spend hours to struggle with them because they grew very powerful. My empire was permanently divided into halves. The Swiss was really a nightmare due to their superior infantry.

- Faction re-emmergence: This is also a wonderful feature. I used to play as HRE and annihilated Poland. However, I was quite careless, not positioning a large number of soldiers to station there to they rebelled, the rebellion gave the exiled prince a chance to re-establish Poland. I would not be able to conquer Poland again after this loss.

- Rebels: Rebellion became more dangerous than in RTW, MTW2 and RTW2. Constant unrest proved to be very deadly to your empire because they could potentially weaken your whole empire.

The rebels also raised up due to the loyalty of the general populace to the former regime, as was the case when I played the Turks who conquered Egyptian lands. Due to the lack of funds, constantly rebellions rose up in the name of the Egyptian dynasty and later made me abandon the whole idea of gaining any foothold in those parts.

Despite being an old game, MTW possess a very beautiful set of music, the music brought wonderful immersion to the game. The soundtrack seemed much more simple in styles, yet they really helped you stick with this game for a long time.

I know that we have the redux, but I still prefer the original design of this game. In my opinion, MTW has a very distinctive UI, very medieval. Those buttons that are made of seals, those brown and white portraits, as well as colored paintings depicting your finished building.

So 10/10 from me!

**deemarksu** · March 16, 2015, 03:11 AM

I was back to play it again about a month ago. This game is never out date. AI did very well , it always makes nice challenge for play.

My France GA campaign was fall after the 4000 men 's Crusade to Antioch destroyed by 10000 Egyptian army. The first battle Crusader survived but in second battle at Lesser Armenia they all died.So I never finished Krak bcoz it's 1125 and i cant capture Antioch. Argon and English also start attacked me at the time of Crusade's fall.

My another GA game with HRE are going to fall as well. I keep peace all along collected 6000 men for Crusade to Antioch. When the Crusader marched to Poland, The Danes and Milanese start attacked me , The Pope stay quite. My prince managed to pushed Milanese back and took Milan and Venice .The result of this counter attack is that Pope fired me form Christian 's group.

In the north The Danes also captured Friesland and my king lost five times in battle for retook it, The Vikings always hide in forest, they beaten all my spearman ,FD men-at-arm and Royal knight .In the 4th - 5th battles my men start flee after they just see King OlafII and his men charging out from the wood T_T . The only hope is high teer unit.My Castle were bulding in Brandenburg, but then Polish attack that with their three full stack army. .... This is real hard that i never met it in M2TW. And both campaign consumed quite short time.

If there will be M3TW, I wish they will mix the good things of each M1TW and M2TW. In M2TW like advacne deplomatic, 3D seiging battle , all unit can put in battle field at time (controled by AI) , training system and etc mixed with province map , smart AI of MTW plus high modern graphic. It would be amazing imo.