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Thread: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

  1. #21

    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    Mount, Projectile, Skeleton (animations) and Walls file attached.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  2. #22

    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    Thanks for sharing these, PB. I've been coming here for mods and such since 2005 with Rome:TW and I really appreciate the time and dedication you've given to these forums and various projects with RC/RR. Your contributions to Medieval2:TW have made a much more enjoyable experience and for that I just wanted to say thanks. Looking forward to the 2.0 release.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    RC 2 is a set of rules. What we're looking forward to is the new Compilation based on SS 6.4, in which the units have stats determined by RC 2.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    I think you posted the M2 descr_projectile by accident. The SS one is 100 KB and it has quality levels for projectiles.

    Actually, I think all those four files are M2.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    Oops! Try these...
    Attached Files Attached Files

  6. #26

    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    Hi there!

    I was wondering, without me resorting to looking at all 500 units' stats, how difficult it would be for me to convert the latest RC stats into the units that were present in base 6.4. To that end, are most units different or just a few? Are most unit's EDU stats different? Im Just gauging the scale of the task, it might not be worth the effort. Only the EDU stats and changes matter for my purposes.

    NEW BGR V 20150324! . . . . . . . .. . . .BGRIV_E

  7. #27

    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    The RC used in SS is old, even older than the one used in the Compilation, which is from 2009 or so, so it would be worth upgrading.

    You could just copy the entries as they are from the new EDU and adjust the things you want, like the prices.

    The difference would not be momentous, but significant overall.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    I thought the latest RC had some or even many new units, which would mean some of my units would be used by the old system and only some by the new. I need consistency for my pricing formula. Does RC 2 have the same units as SS6.4?

    Perhaps I'm confusing RC 2 with the RCRR compilation. I assumed RC 2 was in it.
    Last edited by Byg; January 22, 2015 at 03:31 AM.

    NEW BGR V 20150324! . . . . . . . .. . . .BGRIV_E

  9. #29

    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    To be as clear as possible: The EDU of the upcoming version of the RR/RC Compilation was drawn up in accordance to RC 2 principles. And now that you mention it, yes, there are new units taken from BC, Magyar Mod and maybe other places, with new stats, which aren't in SS 6.4. In fact, the new Compilation has a different map too, taken from RollingWave's mod. The Compilation is much more than unit stat changes.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    I think the attack steps are (1) Does it hit? (2) Does it penetrate? (3) Does it kill?
    These steps are most likely combined in many cases to conserve processor resources.
    In testing armour upgrade values I concluded that it's all 1 single formula, encompassing defense, attack, as well as missile target accuracy and melee hit rate from battle_config.xml.

    If they were separate calculations I would have expected kill rates against 0 armour/shield targets to be similar regardless of missile attack, but they continue to climb as attack increases.

    Likewise increasing missile target accuracy in battle_config.xml drastically increases kill rates of even 1 attack missiles against 20 armour targets.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    To be as clear as possible: The EDU of the upcoming version of the RR/RC Compilation was drawn up in accordance to RC 2 principles. And now that you mention it, yes, there are new units taken from BC, Magyar Mod and maybe other places, with new stats, which aren't in SS 6.4. In fact, the new Compilation has a different map too, taken from RollingWave's mod. The Compilation is much more than unit stat changes.
    I was wondering how the actual stat calculations are done. Do you guys

  12. #32

    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    Excuse me, pressed a wrong button and I seemingly can't edit posts before I have 25 posts. Let's try again :p

    I was wondering how the actual stat calculations are done. Do you guys assign attributes from the guide to all units according to their description and look and then calculate their stats according to the modifiers corresponding with their attributes? It seems like an incredibly amount of work if it's all done by hand.

  13. #33
    Fred Putz's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    Yes... and it seems worth it no matter how long it takes.
    German Translation for Stainless Steel
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  14. #34

    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    Well, it's an algorithm so it should be possible to program it and make the computer do all the work.

    I have a week off after exams, I'm going to have a go at making a program that does all the calculations and only requires the necessary details from the 2.0 guide. Should be an interesting project.

  15. #35
    Fred Putz's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    Iīm not involved in this project here but iīm sure that would be appreciated. I was in fact thinking doing that all by hand for me - just to have it. Or wait till it is finished or offer some help. Both variants seemed to fit my laziness better. At least i would try that program - for sure.

    Just for my own information - doing the calculation would be great, but could the program read the EDU and place the right values? Even if not - there are just a few hundred entries to make - just the entries and not calculating everything before. Iīm definitely interested in it.
    German Translation for Stainless Steel
    6.2 RR/RC; 6.3, 6.4
    Projects / Submods
    Alternative AI-Economy (money script) StSt 6.2 RR/RC; StSt 6.3, 6.4; TATW; CoW; Resource for Your Mod
    Alternative Recruitment StSt 6.4
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    An apple a day keeps the doctor away!

    Donīt forget to check out these Mods sooner or later:
    Shizoku no Senso - 1648 - Conquer the World


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  16. #36

    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    I've already created a rough idea for getting it done, I should be able to generate the entire EDU more or less, the user would just have to provide a stripped down version of each EDU entry in another text file, which is given as input to the program. Instead of giving attack values/ weapon types/ ..., only a weapon is given (one specified in the guide) and all attack stats are calculated of of that single weapon, plus the other modifiers. same for armor

    filling in the stripped down EDU is still going to be a lot of work, but nothing in comparison what it would be without help. I still have to see if I can pull it off tho, but it should definitely be doable.

    I've already made a rough draft of a stripped down EDU entry if anyone wants to have a look.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  17. #37
    Fred Putz's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    Iīm really looking forward to it. Like an little EDU-editor. I know such editors of X3 - and modding some values is really easier with entering numbers or (few) letters, clicking options or selecting from dropdown menues. If i can do anything to help with information i will do my best. That thereīs some human input needed is obvious - but like You said: nothing in comparison to the work without that one. Also input bugs - code ones - are almost eliminated with it. Filling in values in some kind of input-mask is always easier than editing veeery long textfiles which always looks the same - in my opinion. Iīve been through it. Even better if some entries - given values - are read out of the other datafiles. At least the WIP.txt looks like it is thought that way. Would it be possible to edit the values for the calculation too? Without beeing a programmer of course. I mean if there are ever done any adjustmensts to the RC rules it would be good.

    Donīt know how frequent PointBlank or k/t are reading these forums nowadays, but iīll send PMīs right now - i was abscent too for a longer time period. But iīm eager to try it out.
    German Translation for Stainless Steel
    6.2 RR/RC; 6.3, 6.4
    Projects / Submods
    Alternative AI-Economy (money script) StSt 6.2 RR/RC; StSt 6.3, 6.4; TATW; CoW; Resource for Your Mod
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    An apple a day keeps the doctor away!

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  18. #38

    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    Yes, all weapons / mounts / shields / ... will be contained in another text file which will also be given as input to the program, this allows for easy changing of all values, and also the addition of extra weapons and other stuff without breaking the program. I'm aiming for it to be easily adapted by other mods so it has to be as customizable as possible, Only changes to the way the calculations are done would require the actual code to change.

    PB and k\t seem to drop by once every few months, I'm good to go for the most part to get it done, I'm only missing a cost algorithm to calculate troop costs, so I'll have to ask about that when they're here again.

  19. #39
    Fred Putz's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    Iīm looking forward to it and sent both a PM to have a look at this thread and Your project. But if they have their setting like me they wonīt see them before they log on the next time anyway.
    German Translation for Stainless Steel
    6.2 RR/RC; 6.3, 6.4
    Projects / Submods
    Alternative AI-Economy (money script) StSt 6.2 RR/RC; StSt 6.3, 6.4; TATW; CoW; Resource for Your Mod
    Alternative Recruitment StSt 6.4
    Suggestions
    An apple a day keeps the doctor away!

    Donīt forget to check out these Mods sooner or later:
    Shizoku no Senso - 1648 - Conquer the World


    RockīnīRoll!

  20. #40

    Default Re: Questions regarding the RC unit statistics scheme/system

    Alright, I'll post back here when I've made some good progress or PB / k\t get back

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