Total War: WARHAMMER officially confirmed!

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

So is there a kind of technollogy evolution?

Barely

the elves think they are the best, with the best things.
the dwarf do can new stuff once in a while, but it is mostly the young ones, while the old dwarfs thinks they are stupid.
Humans enjoy making need stuff but aren't smart enough.
Lizardmen follows the ruote of "just as planned"

Rest of the races more or less just use magic or are way to stupid to create new stuff.

[von stoker]

Thank you for pointing out that I clearly did not insult or degrade anyone personally.

You just keep telling yourself that. Eventually you may even believe it yourself.

[Evan MF]

I think everyone is caught up in the euphoria of the idea of a Warhammer Total War. I don't think people are yet considering whether CA are actually going to make the Warhammer Total War they're imagining in their heads. We all liked the idea of Rome 2 and the idea CA were presenting us in their pre-release marketing materials, but when it was actually released, a great deal of our hopes and dreams were shattered in almost brutal fashion.

Warhammer + Total War does not automatically mean we will get a large scale game that is on par with previous Total Wars. That is just wishful thinking. If you actually consider the pressures CA are under and constraints they've imposed on themselves with the Warscape engine (and yes, the game will probably be developed on Warscape, I hope we all realise that) you may find that it's more likely we get something of a more Mark of Chaos type scale.

What are the pressures that CA face?

First and foremost, GW will want attention to detail with respect to faction rosters and unit types because this is where GW have built their brand: they make most of their money selling intricate figurines that require detailed paintwork. GW will almost certainly have this as a priority way above battle scale, more so than historians demanding correct sandles above emulating realistic-size battles in historical era Total Wars. I mean, tabletop Warhammer is basically just skirmishing, this is quite a low-scale precedent from a Total War game's perspective.

CA are also presented with the limitations of the Warscape engine. All of a sudden their faction-roster challenge is bigger than ever; bigger than Rome 2 and magnitudes bigger than the copy-paste Shogun 2 roster. CA are more or less at the innovative limit of their Warscape engine. The reason why you can see some axe-wielding units stabbing with the blunt ends of their axes in Rome 2 is because, in the words of Jack Lusted, they are at the limit of their 32-bit system video memory budget and could not afford to put in too many animations without stripping out other parts of the game.

Consider that for Warhammer they need to represent several different factions with several different races and beasts types within each one. Imagine how many new combatant skeletons they need to create to represent all those different races and beast types. Then also consider the amount of different models they are going to have to make for each one; you won't be able to copy-paste much this time CA. Moreover, the sheer quantity and variety of mocap animations they're going to have to include compared to other Total War titles: every different beast will have to have it's own animations and when different beast types fight/interact with each other they may need unique animations just for those specific situations - think of the permutations of this, you could easily need 10x more animations than in current Total Wars. As a result, much more of their video memory is going to be taken up by this sort of stuff that in previous Total Wars.

How does CA meet the demands of a Warhammer game, with all the requisite unique animations/skeletons/models/texture, in such a limited engine? The obvious solution = scale down the battles. More video memory and CPU power allocated for animations/skeletons/models/texture of the units = less available for representing large environments and large scale engagements.

Unless they're going to make a new engine, and there's nothing pointing to that so far, I can realistically see them doing this, why can't other people? Don't look at it through rose-tinted glasses, think realistically. Who knows, maybe you won't be as disappointed as you were with Rome 2 on release when it finally comes out. We need to learn from our mistakes of wishful thinking and blind trust of CA.

I don't think I'd want CA to base a new Total War engine on Warhammer anyway. The risks of having a fantasy universe setting the precedent for a historical battle simulator engine are monumental. If that happened, Warhammer would unavoidably affect future Total War titles, unlike many of you want to believe. It still sets a bad precedent as it is, being admitted to the Total War franchise, but a new Total War engine designed with Warhammer specifics in mind could have dire consequences for the gameplay of future Total Wars, as future Total War teams will be obliged to use reuse these mechanics in their games to limit their development costs. In my eyes, both scenarios are bad for the franchise.

[Zwirbaum]

Barely

the elves think they are the best, with the best things.
the dwarf do can new stuff once in a while, but it is mostly the young ones, while the old dwarfs thinks they are stupid.
Humans enjoy making need stuff but aren't smart enough.
Lizardmen follows the ruote of "just as planned"

Rest of the races more or less just use magic or are way to stupid to create new stuff.

Lizardmen are far war away from the "Just as planned" It's Tzeentch domain

[Asgaron]

I think everyone is caught up in the euphoria of the idea of a Warhammer Total War. I don't think people are yet considering whether CA are actually going to make the Warhammer Total War they're imagining in their heads. We all liked the idea of Rome 2 and the idea CA were presenting us in their pre-release marketing materials, but when it was actually released, a great deal of our hopes and dreams were shattered in almost brutal fashion.

Warhammer + Total War does not automatically mean we will get a large scale game that is on par with previous Total Wars. That is just wishful thinking. If you actually consider the pressures CA are under and constraints they've imposed on themselves with the Warscape engine (and yes, the game will probably be developed on Warscape, I hope we all realise that) you may find that it's more likely we get something of a more Mark of Chaos type scale.

What are the pressures that CA face?

First and foremost, GW will want attention to detail with respect to faction rosters and unit types because this is where GW have built their brand: they make most of their money selling intricate figurines that require detailed paintwork. GW will almost certainly have this as a priority way above battle scale, more so than historians demanding correct sandles above emulating realistic-size battles in historical era Total Wars.

CA are also presented with the limitations of the Warscape engine. All of a sudden their faction-roster challenge is bigger than ever (bigger than Rome 2 and magnitudes bigger than the copy-paste Shogun 2 roster and CA are more or less at the innovative limit of their Warscape engine. The reason why you can see some axe-wielding units stabbing with the blunt ends of their axes in Rome 2 is because, in the words of Jack Lusted, they are at the limit of their 32-bit system video memory budget and could not afford to put in too many animations without stripping out other parts of the game.

Consider that for Warhammer they need to represent several different factions with several different races and beasts types within each one. Imagine how many new combatant skeletons they need to create to represent all those different races and beast types. Then also consider the amount of different models they are going to have to make for each one; you won't be able to copy-paste much this time CA. Moreover, the sheer quantity and variety of mocap animations they're going to have to include compared to other Total War titles: every different beast will have to have it's own animations and when different beast types fight/interact with each other they may need unique animations just for those specific situations - think of the permutations of this, you could easily need 10x more animations than in current Total Wars. So much more of their video memory is going to be taken up by this stuff.

How does CA meet the demands of a Warhammer game, with all the requisite unique animations/skeletons/models/texture, in such a limited engine? The obvious solution = scale down the battles. More video memory and CPU power allocated for animations/skeletons/models/texture of the units = less available for representing large environments and large scale engagements.

Unless they're going to make a new engine, and there's nothing pointing to that so far, I can realistically see them doing this, why can't other people? Don't look at it through rose-tinted glasses, think realistically. Who knows, maybe you won't be as disappointed as you were with Rome 2 on release when it finally comes out. We need to learn from our mistakes of wishful thinking and blind trust of CA.

I don't think I'd want CA to base a new Total War engine on Warhammer anyway. The risks of having a fantasy universe setting the precedent for a historical battle simulator engine are monumental. If that happened, Warhammer would unavoidably affect future Total War titles, unlike many of you want to believe. It still sets a bad precedent as it is, being admitted to the Total War franchise, but a new Total War engine designed with Warhammer specifics in mind could have dire consequences for the gameplay of future Total Wars. In my eyes, both scenarios are bad for the franchise.

On this base, we can have a good discussion. Nice Post.

Unlike Levings totally provocative posts, without relevant content. Perhabs you should avoid things like "pueril", "childish" and "tacky rubbish", if you want proper answers on your postings. You don't like Warhammer? Fine, we know it now.

[Cope]

Ok, fair enough then.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Lizardmen are far war away from the "Just as planned" It's Tzeentch domain

Yeah I know :3 they are more like "desperately trying to follow the plan"

[Ciciro]

Yeah I know :3 they are more like "desperately trying to follow the plan"

Or more like " Sod the plan, I'm getting the hell out of here!"

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Or more like " Sod the plan, I'm getting the hell out of here!"

"Guys New Plan! scrap the old one, and light up those engines!"

The day those golden chested skinkes look forward to, because they found their use

[Modestus]

Warhammer will be in all likelihood an anaemic version of what people imagine it should be, it will be built on the Warscape production line and while there will be some retooling it will be typical of what Warscape can do.

It will not be so dark that it will get an 18 rating so expect a rather jolly interpretation of Necromancers and I can only look forward to what CA will do with the combat. It will be quite an achievement if they can combine melee, ranged and air warfare on a Warscape battlefield.

Logic would dictate that it will perhaps be the most attractive looking tactical mess ever made by CA, these guys cannot even make a Phalanx but we must remain positive.

Only by being positively delusional will we make it through the coming months of Panoramas of flying dragons and Lizardmen as CA slowly reveal to us the most remarkable and magical world they have managed to make boring.

[swoosh so]

Don't waste your energy on naysayers, Totalwar: Warhammer is happening whether they like it or not, focus your energies on aspects of the game CA could include. If people are saying they're unhappy with the direction the Totalwar series is taking and say there's no way back now let them move on and give creative input to CA to assist them with making it the best they can.

Personally Shogun 1 got me interested in history like never before I love the time period now and also that of rome, outside of that I think the history is abit dull but its just a game and was fun to play in most era's. The fantasy take on the game could be quite interesting and I believe there has been a game similar to totalwar before which some of the shogun 1 guys worked on called dark omen that was actually quite good for its day.

[Huberto]

On this base, we can have a good discussion. Nice Post. Unlike Levings totally provocative posts, without relevant content. Perhabs you should avoid things like "pueril", "childish" and "tacky rubbish", if you want proper answers on your postings. You don't like Warhammer? Fine, we know it now.

Funny that you wrote this because you don't address anything he said you just go back to whining about Leving. Do you think Warscape will impact Warhamer? Will Warhammer influence the design of the historical games? Also Seeing a lot of folks posting here with less than 20 posts - good news for CA?

[Orkfaeller]

Barely

Rest of the races more or less just use magic or are way to stupid to create new stuff.

Hey dont you forget about the Skaven.

They are technological masterminds, allways pushing the limits.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Hey dont you forget about the Skaven.

They are technological masterminds, allways pushing the limits.

Puuuhhhh They don't exist!

[Asgaron]

Funny that you wrote this because you don't address anything he said you just go back to whining about Leving. Do you think Warscape will impact Warhamer? Will Warhammer influence the design of the historical games? Also Seeing a lot of folks posting here with less than 20 posts - good news for CA?

People want a large scale "Total War:Warhammer". I think thats the critical point, because an implementation is very difficult in this complex setting.

[Modestus]

Don't waste your energy on naysayers, Totalwar: Warhammer is happening whether they like it or not, focus your energies on aspects of the game CA could include. If people are saying they're unhappy with the direction the Totalwar series is taking and say there's no way back now let them move on and give creative input to CA to assist them with making it the best they can.

Indeed those who are familiar with Warhammer should assist CA in making it better they certainly need the help, there are not many developers that can make a game about Rome and make it boring so hopefully a magical world will have a better chance.

Remain positive and ignore the naysayers Warhammer will be fantastical.

[Col. Tartleton]

The only problem with Rome II was a premature release which meant cut features and bugs.

Augustus is fine now, I have fun with it. Attila looks to be Rome II with the cut features added back in. Hopefully without the launch bugs.

Just don't pre order Warhammer. You're going to spend an arm and a leg on DLC content, the savings on first day DLC won't be worth it.

All I want is Medieval 2 with better graphics, naval battles, and air units. They can do that.

[SteamPunk]

I think a major problem for CA is going to be battlefield terrain. There will need to be dwarf holds in the mountains, elven cities in the forests. Skaven lairs underground.. Just making atmospheric battlefields representing the factions homelands will be a challenge.

[Jay the Byzantine]

I'm imagining how this'll go down. First, after Attila, this comes out,then it'll sell reasonably well since the non-gaming 40K fans will buy in, then its a question of whether or not the geniuses at SEGA think its better to make more and more fantasy or make real TW.

[Orkfaeller]

Puuuhhhh They don't exist!

Oh yeah, ofcourse, what was I thinking. Just silly rumours about rat shaped beastmen and mutants.^^