Page 57 of 60 FirstFirst ... 7324748495051525354555657585960 LastLast
Results 1,121 to 1,140 of 1186

Thread: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

  1. #1121
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    17,268

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    The quite limited point, yes, it does. Censorship still exists in the USA.
    Uhhh no. Congress has tried make flag burning illegal, but it will never work for this one reason:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson

    Texas v. Johnson established firmly that flag burning is a protected free speech right. Any laws Congress could have made would be struck down.
    Best/Worst quotes of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  2. #1122

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Uhhh no. Congress has tried make flag burning illegal, but it will never work for this one reason:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson

    Texas v. Johnson established firmly that flag burning is a protected free speech right. Any laws Congress could have made would be struck down.
    No to what? Censorship issue is not limited to burning flags. Times change though.
    The Armenian Issue

  3. #1123
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    17,268

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    No to what? Censorship issue is not limited to burning flags. Times change though.
    The First amendment does not change and protects the right. You always seem to think the Supreme Court is quick to go against their own legal precedents they set.

    And of course censorship isn't limited to flag burning. You say times change and they do. Speech used to be much stricter and more limited in the US in its early history. Now as time has gone on freedom of expression and speech have only gotten stronger while censorship continues to be criticized like last year when the public criticized Sony giving into the threats of that hacker group.
    Last edited by Vanoi; January 24, 2015 at 07:01 PM.
    Best/Worst quotes of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  4. #1124

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    The First amendment does not change and protects the right. You always seem to think the Supreme Court is quick to go against their own legal precedents they set.

    And of course censorship isn't limited to flag burning. You say times change and they do. Speech used to be much stricter and more limited in the US in its early history. Now as time has gone on freedom of expression and speech have only gotten stronger while censorship continues to be criticized like last year when the public criticized Sony giving into the threats of that hacker group.
    Pretty much 2/3 of the congress doesn't seem to think so. There are many things that actually go against the First Amendment anyways. I know a lot of people loves waving the amendment flags but they're rarely meaningful.
    The Armenian Issue

  5. #1125

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    i dont know why the thread even segued into this, i was referring to flag burning in other countries seen as provocative and offensive in the country whose flag is being burnt, nothing about its legality

  6. #1126
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    17,268

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh;14327260[B
    ]Pretty much 2/3 of the congress doesn't seem to think so[/B]. There are many things that actually go against the First Amendment anyways. I know a lot of people loves waving the amendment flags but they're rarely meaningful.
    Congress doesn't determine what free speech protects and does not. What are these many things that go against the first amendment?
    Best/Worst quotes of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  7. #1127
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    15,243

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    i dont know why the thread even segued into this, i was referring to flag burning in other countries seen as provocative and offensive in the country whose flag is being burnt, nothing about its legality
    Why burn flags of France, as if the whole nation is responsible for what a small rag publisher prints out on a weekly basis with diddles and cartoons? Why not burn copies of Charlie Hebdo instead? Or pictures of their editors? I guess people lack nuance. That and the people burning such flags would probably consider even getting their hands on such a magazine to be totally haram (forbidden).

  8. #1128
    Gäiten's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Berlin
    Posts
    4,721

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    Because these certain people do not care, they just hate the West and use each opportunity for their hate crimes.

    Invasio Barbarorum: Ruina Roma Development Leader - Art made by Joar -Visit my Deviantart: http://gaiiten.deviantart.com/

  9. #1129

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Congress doesn't determine what free speech protects and does not. What are these many things that go against the first amendment?
    Yet, they see it in themselves to pass laws on such issues. No country has absolute freedom of speech. Even when freedom of speech is largely protected by the state, the public can go a different way. Of course, the environment is much better today but US government has a quite rich history of censorship. For example, Memoirs of Hecate County was banned and the Supreme Court upheld the decision in 1948. It was republished after a revision in 1958. Today, it's more about leaks from the government. They're sometimes about exerting pressure on journalists not to use leaked information or outright trying to prosecute whistle blowers like Snowden. Then you have local and indirect censorship efforts like a pastor having Harry Potter books removed from a school library. Then you have hilarious cases like Texas Education Board banning a book because the author of the book had a similar name to a Marxist author and the board was too stupid to use Google to check it. An interesting case is that of Irwin Schiff, who is banned by a court to sell his book on legal tax evasion.

    The moral of the story is that there are always people in the state or local level, that try to exert censorship based on whatever values they have. It's not a pissing contest between countries either. Advocacy of freedom of speech can be and should be done independent of how well a country is doing. It should be made as a matter of principle.
    The Armenian Issue

  10. #1130
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    17,268

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    Yet, they see it in themselves to pass laws on such issues. No country has absolute freedom of speech. Even when freedom of speech is largely protected by the state, the public can go a different way.
    As i pointed out with the recent Sony hacking scandal, the public hated when Sony refused to play the movie. The public doesn't determine my rights either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    Of course, the environment is much better today but US government has a quite rich history of censorship. For example, Memoirs of Hecate County was banned and the Supreme Court upheld the decision in 1948. It was republished after a revision in 1958. Today, it's more about leaks from the government. They're sometimes about exerting pressure on journalists not to use leaked information or outright trying to prosecute whistle blowers like Snowden. Then you have local and indirect censorship efforts like a pastor having Harry Potter books removed from a school library. Then you have hilarious cases like Texas Education Board banning a book because the author of the book had a similar name to a Marxist author and the board was too stupid to use Google to check it. An interesting case is that of Irwin Schiff, who is banned by a court to sell his book on legal tax evasion.
    Leaking secret information from government is not free speech. Its good snowden showed the government was spying, but his case doesn't deal with free speech at all. His crime is that he leaked classified info. That has nothing to do with free speech.

    Referencing out-dated legal cases won't support your argument. Local bans aren't relevant either since they can be challenged and most likely struck down. its pretty hard to prove in a court case why something needed to be censored.

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    The moral of the story is that there are always people in the state or local level, that try to exert censorship based on whatever values they have. It's not a pissing contest between countries either. Advocacy of freedom of speech can be and should be done independent of how well a country is doing. It should be made as a matter of principle.
    Thats what courts are for.
    Best/Worst quotes of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  11. #1131

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    As i pointed out with the recent Sony hacking scandal, the public hated when Sony refused to play the movie. The public doesn't determine my rights either.
    Leaking secret information from government is not free speech. Its good snowden showed the government was spying, but his case doesn't deal with free speech at all. His crime is that he leaked classified info. That has nothing to do with free speech.
    Referencing out-dated legal cases won't support your argument. Local bans aren't relevant either since they can be challenged and most likely struck down. its pretty hard to prove in a court case why something needed to be censored.
    Thats what courts are for.
    The public pretty much does determine your rights with some checks and balances of course. Local communities in USA have quite some power in such regulations. Leaking secret information on government misconduct is free speech and it is protected by the Whistleblower Protection Act. The examples after the first one are actually from the last two decades. That's not that outdated. As shown, courts haven't been saints all around and times change.
    The Armenian Issue

  12. #1132
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    17,268

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    The public pretty much does determine your rights with some checks and balances of course.
    What part of checks and balances allows the public to violate my free speech rights? Point them out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    Local communities in USA have quite some power in such regulations. Leaking secret information on government misconduct is free speech and it is protected by the Whistleblower Protection Act.
    The WAP protects whistleblowers in the case of agency misconduct. If there is no agency misconduct and you leak information anyways, its not free speech.

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    The examples after the first one are actually from the last two decades. That's not that outdated. As shown, courts haven't been saints all around and times change.
    1948 and 1958 are not the last two decades. The other examples you posted or local laws which are not relevant when we are discussing national policy.
    Best/Worst quotes of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  13. #1133

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    What part of checks and balances allows the public to violate my free speech rights? Point them out.
    The WAP protects whistleblowers in the case of agency misconduct. If there is no agency misconduct and you leak information anyways, its not free speech.
    1948 and 1958 are not the last two decades. The other examples you posted or local laws which are not relevant when we are discussing national policy.
    I didn't say that the checks and balances allows the public to violate it. They act against it.
    Ah, all based on perception. Some people would consider the government spying on its own citizen to be agency misconduct.
    I specifically said that the ones after the first one was in the last two decades. What's the point of using the first one to argue that it's not from the last two decades? You can of course dismiss anything as irrelevant but that's doesn't really make it so.

    I'm sorry if what I said so far burst that amazing USA image bubble. As I said, freedom of speech should be advocated as a matter of principle, not as a matter of national pride. If you want to be constructive of course...
    The Armenian Issue

  14. #1134
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    17,268

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    Ah, all based on perception. Some people would consider the government spying on its own citizen to be agency misconduct.
    Is that all Snowden leaked though?

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    I specifically said that the ones after the first one was in the last two decades. What's the point of using the first one to argue that it's not from the last two decades? You can of course dismiss anything as irrelevant but that's doesn't really make it so.

    I'm sorry if what I said so far burst that amazing USA image bubble. As I said, freedom of speech should be advocated as a matter of principle, not as a matter of national pride. If you want to be constructive of course...
    The examples you show aren't relevant. Each one of the examples you brought up could easily be challenged in court and find to be illegal. Your example with the tax evasion really doesn't work since advocating breaking the law is not protected free speech. Tax evasion is illegal.

    Your not bursting any bubble. You have failed to show any real example of US censorship. What happens in local communities is nto relevant ot people like me who are not there and thus don't have to follow that law.
    Best/Worst quotes of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  15. #1135

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Is that all Snowden leaked though?
    The examples you show aren't relevant. Each one of the examples you brought up could easily be challenged in court and find to be illegal. Your example with the tax evasion really doesn't work since advocating breaking the law is not protected free speech. Tax evasion is illegal.
    Your not bursting any bubble. You have failed to show any real example of US censorship. What happens in local communities is nto relevant ot people like me who are not there and thus don't have to follow that law.
    Just to make sure, you're telling me that in recent US history, as in the last two decades, there are no censorship cases whatsoever supported by a court or by the government, right?
    The Armenian Issue

  16. #1136
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    17,268

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    Just to make sure, you're telling me that in recent US history, as in the last two decades, there are no censorship cases whatsoever supported by a court or by the government, right?
    Do you have evidence or not of US censorship in the last two decades? Not local censorship, but nationwide censorship.
    Best/Worst quotes of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  17. #1137

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Do you have evidence or not of US censorship in the last two decades? Not local censorship, but nationwide censorship.
    That doesn't answer my question.
    The Armenian Issue

  18. #1138
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    17,268

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    That doesn't answer my question.
    Your question is irrelevant since i haven't made a claim. You said you had evidence of US censorship in the last two decades. Lets see.
    Best/Worst quotes of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  19. #1139

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Your question is irrelevant since i haven't made a claim. You said you had evidence of US censorship in the last two decades. Lets see.
    Not much I can do against such a blind conviction. Your objections are irrelevant. There, I can dismiss things as easily as you can... The fact remains that absolute freedom of speech does not exist in even most, if not all of, Western states, USA being one of them. Talking as if some countries have some kind of absolute ownership on such principles is just pointless. We are free as long as it's convenient for us to be free. It shouldn't be a pissing contest as it is in many discussions. That means you don't have to claim some kind of superiority to advocate freedom of speech as you can in the French case. This is a common phenomenon. One side gets white washed to attack the aggressor side. We're smart enough to criticize one side without ignoring the shortcomings of an other.
    The Armenian Issue

  20. #1140
    classical_hero's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    1,111

    Default Re: 10 killed in a gun attack in France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    There are over 200 thousand Muslims in Sydney and all they could gather is a thousand people? Quite a misleading article. It calls the signs that says "Je Suis Muslim" to be provocative... Meanwhile, a lot of Australian Muslim leaders already condemned the Paris attacks.
    I specifically asked about where are the protests against the violence? There have been Zero. They are quick to protest against Charlie and th youtube video, but never against the violence done in the name of Islam.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •