Dalhousie University Thoughtcrime Scandal: "Dentistry, Feminism, and Smut, oh my!"

[chilon]

The one who did the worst was an Arab who used the excuse that his professor who he forged the signatures of was Jewish and "had it out for him". She was Jewish, but about as Jewish I am catholic. They gave him something akin to school community service for a few months after graduation and then let him graduate. Feel better now? How about you call me a liar or something? Seriously the stalking makes me think you might have a crush on me.

Maybe you shouldn't make statements like minorities are not as qualified in Med school then.

You boldly proclaim you are a doctor with zero proof then claim that minorities are not as competent as you.

Congrats on being a Troll

[Gaidin]

I'm trying to figure out why you had to respond that way. I can't. Bad day?

No. Just that your post means jack because literally, every University policy for first time caught cheating is failure of course. Not possible expulsion as this seems to be. Universities the country and world over save the right to expel students for at least the second time the student is caught cheating.

[Phier]

No. Just that your post means jack because literally, every University policy for first time caught cheating is failure of course. Not possible expulsion as this seems to be. Universities the country and world over save the right to expel students for at least the second time the student is caught cheating.

The idea of a "black mark" is laughable, I was pointing that out. Maybe it would stop you from getting a University job, but those are normally not what people are after.

[Phier]

Maybe you shouldn't make statements like minorities are not as qualified in Med school then.

You boldly proclaim you are a doctor with zero proof then claim that minorities are not as competent as you.

Congrats on being a Troll

*sigh*

Do minorities have lower enterance requriements than White (and Asians of course) into Medschool? Answer that one, and you answer your own question.

Quit spewing nonsense on a subject you either choose to ignore the facts on, or have no knowledge of.

[chilon]

*sigh*

Do minorities have lower enterance requriements than White (and Asians of course) into Medschool? Answer that one, and you answer your own question.

Quit spewing nonsense on a subject you either choose to ignore the facts on, or have no knowledge of.

Then prove it.

Prove minorities have lower entrance requirements. And then prove that that inevitably results in lower performance in med school and beyond.

[Gaidin]

The idea of a "black mark" is laughable, I was pointing that out. Maybe it would stop you from getting a University job, but those are normally not what people are after.

So professional standards mean nothing until you're actually graduating which is, well, fair enough. Unless you're a canadian regulator that has an interest in a canadian professional student making posts having an actual bearing on the profession you're learning.

[sumskilz]

Then prove it.

Prove minorities have lower entrance requirements. And then prove that that inevitably results in lower performance in med school and beyond.

It's easy to prove, just look at the statistics from the Association of American Medical Colleges.

Among applicants with a GPA of 3.40-3.59 and an MCAT score of 24-26 (out of 45):

Whites: 15.1% acceptance rate
Blacks: 72.1% acceptance rate
Latinos: 39% acceptance rate
Asians: 10.6% acceptance rate

To have over an 80% chance of acceptance, Blacks only need a 3.40-3.59 GPA and 27-29 MCAT score, Whites with the same GPA need a 39-45 MCAT score to even come close to an 80% acceptance rate.

It's not about being a minority though, Asians get screwed the worst. At the level 80% of Blacks are being accepted, 80% of Asians are being rejected.

EDIT: As to the second part, Blacks drop out for academic reasons at about nine times the rate of that of Whites. On average, Blacks also take longer to graduate: https://www.aamc.org/download/102346...aibvol7no2.pdf

[chilon]

It's easy to prove, just look at the statistics from the Association of American Medical Colleges.

Among applicants with a GPA of 3.40-3.59 and an MCAT score of 24-26 (out of 45):

Whites: 15.1% acceptance rate
Blacks: 72.1% acceptance rate
Latinos: 39% acceptance rate
Asians: 10.6% acceptance rate

To have over an 80% chance of acceptance, Blacks only need a 3.40-3.59 GPA and 27-29 MCAT score, Whites with the same GPA need a 39-45 MCAT score to even come close to an 80% acceptance rate.

It's not about being a minority though, Asians get screwed the worst. At the level 80% of Blacks are being accepted, 80% of Asians are being rejected.

EDIT: As to the second part, Blacks drop out for academic reasons at about nine times the rate of that of Whites. On average, Blacks also take longer to graduate: https://www.aamc.org/download/102346...aibvol7no2.pdf

Well, you just proved Phier's statement about minorities is false. Although if when Phier said "minority" he actually meant "black" the statistics would support his claim but also further reveal his bias.

I guess really Phier is just trying to say that Black people are not as competent in med school, certainly not "minorities".

The problem with these statistics is they don't control for other confounding factors.

Its quite clear Phier has an agenda.

[sumskilz]

Well, you just proved Phier's statement about minorities is false. Although if when Phier said "minority" he actually meant "black" the statistics would support his claim but also further reveal his bias.

It is all recorded minority categories except Asians. Latinos, African Americans, and Native Americans lumped together with a GPA of 3.60-3.79 and an MCAT score of 21-23 are accepted at 39.8%, 43.1% for Latinos alone, while only 7.9% of Whites and 6.4% of Asians with the same scores are accepted.

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/appl...ethnicity.html

[chilon]

It is all recorded minority categories except Asians. Latinos, African Americans, and Native Americans lumped together with a GPA of 3.60-3.79 and an MCAT score of 21-23 are accepted at 39.8%, 43.1% for Latinos alone, while only 7.9% of Whites and 6.4% of Asians with the same scores are accepted.

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/appl...ethnicity.html

Its still not controlling for confounding variables but whatever. If you want junk science then I guess you can draw conclusions from that single statistic without looking into context and a host of other factors.

It also says nothing about the second part of his assumption that this makes minorities worse doctors/dentists.

[Gaidin]

It's easy to prove, just look at the statistics from the Association of American Medical Colleges.

Among applicants with a GPA of 3.40-3.59 and an MCAT score of 24-26 (out of 45):

Whites: 15.1% acceptance rate
Blacks: 72.1% acceptance rate
Latinos: 39% acceptance rate
Asians: 10.6% acceptance rate

To have over an 80% chance of acceptance, Blacks only need a 3.40-3.59 GPA and 27-29 MCAT score, Whites with the same GPA need a 39-45 MCAT score to even come close to an 80% acceptance rate.

It's not about being a minority though, Asians get screwed the worst. At the level 80% of Blacks are being accepted, 80% of Asians are being rejected.

EDIT: As to the second part, Blacks drop out for academic reasons at about nine times the rate of that of Whites. On average, Blacks also take longer to graduate: https://www.aamc.org/download/102346...aibvol7no2.pdf

Out of how many applicants?

[sumskilz]

Its still not controlling for confounding variables but whatever. If you want junk science then I guess you can draw conclusions from that single statistic without looking into context and a host of other factors.

What confounding factors? What other criteria do you think they should be judging applicants on other than the relatively objective scores? Race maybe?

It also says nothing about the second part of his assumption that this makes minorities worse doctors/dentists.

Actually I don't remember Phier having said that, but it wouldn't be minorities, it would be those individuals who were accepted because of race rather than academic qualifications, who would in turn bring the statistical average performance of doctors of their race down. I can see this actually hurting those minorities who were able to make it into med school through their qualifications. Of course, the validity of that statement depends on how predictive the MCAT really is, considering the bulk of Black, Latino, and Native American applicants are getting in with MCAT scores which are considerably lower than those of White and Asian applicants. As it turns out, a meta-analysis of 23 studies found the MCAT does pretty well at least:

the MCAT as a whole shows relatively consistent and good predictive validity findings for performance in both medical school and on licensing examinations... The practical implications of these findings for medical schools support the continuing use of the MCAT total score as a predictor of student performance in medical school and beyond.

The Predictive Validity of the MCAT for Medical School Performance and Medical Board Licensing Examinations: A Meta-Analysis of the Published Research

Out of how many applicants?

All the applicants for all the US medical schools for the 2013-2014 and 2014-2015 school years, so 68,150. Black, Latino, and Native American applicant total was 16,403.

EDIT: The point is, that statistically speaking, Black, Latino, and Native American doctors probably aren't as good as White and Asians doctors (as groups, which won't apply to all individuals of course), but that is only because of the discriminatory applicant screening practices on the part of medical schools. That is the most reasonable conclusion to draw based on the available data.

[Gaidin]

All the applicants for all the US medical schools for the 2013-2014 and 2014-2015 school years, so 68,150. Black, Latino, and Native American applicant total was 16,403.

EDIT: The point is, that statistically speaking, Black, Latino, and Native American doctors probably aren't as good as White and Asians doctors (as groups, which won't apply to all individuals of course), but that is only because of the discriminatory applicant screening practices on the part of medical schools. That is the most reasonable conclusion to draw based on the available data.

How many for each individual race? Otherwise its number is pretty irrelevant. If there's less black applicants period, full stop... We then have an explanation for 72.1% without corrupting acceptance practices. It would only be math. Either way you cut it, with the limited space and the sheer large number of white applicants(assuming for now 68k - 16k since there's no better worthwhile data), I expect a much lower percentage of them to get in no matter what. However, the Asian percentage matches the White percentage. So just doing the simple subtraction will work for the inane assumption for lack of data.

Now, you expect me to just cry foul about the minority races without knowing something about the 16k? No, I get off the crazy train here. Find data if you want to prove something.

[Phier]

Its still not controlling for confounding variables but whatever. If you want junk science then I guess you can draw conclusions from that single statistic without looking into context and a host of other factors.

It also says nothing about the second part of his assumption that this makes minorities worse doctors/dentists.

You can't let go of your religion in light of facts. Congratulations, you are a fundamentalist.

When I was in medschool, there were separate curves on exams. The students who got in because of merit vrs those who got in due to "status". Now if you think doctors who have lower requirements and do WORSE on exams are going to be better doctors than those who had high requirements and did better on exams, then what is the point of either?

I'm sure if you had to pick someone you cared about with a life threatening illness you would make no assumptions

[sumskilz]

How many for each individual race? Otherwise its number is pretty irrelevant. If there's less black applicants period, full stop... We then have an explanation for 72.1% without corrupting acceptance practices. It would only be math. Either way you cut it, with the limited space and the sheer large number of white applicants(assuming for now 68k - 16k since there's no better worthwhile data), I expect a much lower percentage of them to get in no matter what. However, the Asian percentage matches the White percentage. So just doing the simple subtraction will work for the inane assumption for lack of data.

Now, you expect me to just cry foul about the minority races without knowing something about the 16k? No, I get off the crazy train here. Find data if you want to prove something.

I suspect that miraculously the vast majority of the 7,727 Black applicants were extraordinary despite the majority of them having much lower grades and MCAT scores than Whites and Asians who were rejected, or race played a major role in their acceptance.

[chilon]

You can't let go of your religion in light of facts. Congratulations, you are a fundamentalist.When I was in medschool, there were separate curves on exams. The students who got in because of merit vrs those who got in due to "status". Now if you think doctors who have lower requirements and do WORSE on exams are going to be better doctors than those who had high requirements and did better on exams, then what is the point of either? I'm sure if you had to pick someone you cared about with a life threatening illness you would make no assumptions

[Gaidin]

I suspect that miraculously the vast majority of the 7,727 Black applicants were extraordinary despite the majority of them having much lower grades and MCAT scores than Whites and Asians who were rejected, or race played a major role in their acceptance.

Cool. I can bite with that number. So what, 5300 Black applicants are accepted? 5200 White/Asian applicants? I mean...sure, the Asian applicants are plus or minus but 10-15% is a close enough whatever. I've always been indifferent about test scores when the most brilliant two people I know can't even break slightly above average on these things and hear I am striking excellent on them. The schools have their minimums, cry me a river. What's the rest of the resume?

Let me just be plain. I don't care about your whining about admissions. It's about more than a test score. I'm more interested in what Phier's saying about the standard's they're maintaining once they're actually in there.

[sumskilz]

I've always been indifferent about test scores when the most brilliant two people I know can't even break slightly above average on these things and hear I am striking excellent on them.

It's test scores and grades. Of course the test scores aren't everything, but the test scores are fairly good predictors of success - academic and beyond, according to the empirical evidence.

The schools have their minimums

Racial minimums, evidently, and the fact that race takes precedent over other factors was being denied earlier in this thread. Should we care more about the race of doctors or their ability? The admissions boards and I seem to have a difference of opinion on the issue. Should we care that positive discrimination for one race is effectively negative discrimination for another? Well, it doesn't matter to me so much on the racial level, but it seems a waste to discriminate against individuals with a high aptitude because their race is too numerous among qualified applicants.

[Gaidin]

Did you read my entire post? If you're going to cut out my main point I'm not interested in talking to you. Keep talking to the wall.

[chilon]

Hmm phone didnt reply right. In short,

1. Do you have proof that minorities do worse once actually in med school? or as doctors/dentists? That was your original implication that you dodged.

2. Either provide proof that you are actually a medical doctor or stop referencing it like it means something over the internet. Otherwise your fan fiction make believe about being in med school is rubbish.