Medieval Kingdoms Total War Research Thread

[Slytacular]

I bought my first copy of the Medieval Warfare magazine from my local bookstore (the volume about naval warfare). I saw a pretty cool style of helmet, but I wonder where it comes from. The section the image was in was about the Aragonese admiral, Roger de Lauria. There is a mixed amount of armor from different time periods, but I wonder if the curassier style helmet is legitimate. Currently, I think the artist kind of BS'd the research in the illustration, but I would like to double check to see if something is truly authentic.

[+Marius+]

It is probably the Spanish nasal helm that was popular during his time, just with a smaller top hinge and...put on backwards;

http://i.imgur.com/LVpfhtY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IFwKDnI.jpg (right side of fort)
http://i.imgur.com/26fyWZZ.jpg?1 (top left, men at the back)

[Slytacular]

Oh cool! I need to create a variety of that stuff!

[+Marius+]

Yeah, medieval armor came in a wide variety, only the most popular types of equipment are usually known about.

Nevermind that, would anyone care for a basket of fruit;

http://i.imgur.com/0DCDUoa.jpg?1




What I find most confusing is determining whether someone is wearing a brigandine, a standalone gambeson or even a leather cuirass over mail by just looking at the image, because some of them are depicted just to...gloriously to tell;

http://i.imgur.com/AbQSTNL.jpg?1

[Slytacular]

It looks like some sort of decorative brigandines. Brigandines were great for display because the exterior sort of hides the plates underneath depending on how it was made.

[Ltd.]

I'll post this here for I can't find a proper theme on the forum. Do you still need any help? I'm an 2D artist. Texture, art, icons, anything. I would be glad to take part in this awesome project.

Thank you for your offer. I think we are good in the 2D department for now. Once there is need for some additional help, however, we will let you guys know.

[tryadelion]

aragonese / iberian nasal helmet you were talking about :p

[warman222]

Great reference picture man. Noted. That actually reminded me, I haven't moved on to Aragon yet but I did make this skullcap variant. The gloss looks a little buggy but you should still get the idea.





Based on the guy to the right here:

[tryadelion]

good one! urgell skullcap. :3 remember to add the leather strap for the neck, gives it a realistic touch.

btw, showcase of aragonese spear militia.



and aragonese noblemen / knights.

[Richard IV]

These images are from a book by Tobias Capwell who did a study of English armour. I hope these images will be useful for the creation of the late game units for England. I apologise for the images that are upside down. Each of the three types of armour has a little description of the suit, he does do later armour but they are outside of the time frame of your mod.

[warman222]

Interesting stuff, we'll look into it. But right now I'm working on Aragon. I have a little sneak peek for you:

[Richard IV]

That looks really good

[Delicate Strawberry]

Looks great!

[FrozenmenSS]

Hi guys - after the latest crash from the Forum, I have to rewrite the old post for Volga Bulgaria. This Time I will try to remember what I wrote and post it again in this thread.So sorry If Im missing some text from the old post.

Russian Documentary with Russian Audio with some CGI for Volga Bulgaria


Armies of the Volga Bulgars& Khanate of Kazan9th–16th Centuries
http://www.brego-weard.com/lib/MAA_491.pdf


Here are the paintings of the Female warriors from Volga Bulgaria made by Bulat Gilvanov,who is born in Volga Bulgaria, modern Tatarstan,Russia

Historical Info About the Female Warriors in the 12-13th Century for Volga Bulgaria.

The Legend of Princess Altynchech of Volga Bulgaria is a bit murky because over the last 800 years is filled with Legendary and Mythological Stuff about her and I will try as much to post what is confirmed about Her. Now She was the most known Woman warrior of Sunni Islamic Volga Bulgaria,but she wasnt the only 1.There were others also were like her.It was also Common in that Time the Women to be even Governing local regions in Volga Bulgaria and with the Cummans the Women still practiced the old Scytian,Sarmatian traditions about women going to war. Only after going back from War the women of Volga Bulgaria and the Cummans could marry and have a family. Also in the Siege of the capital of Volga Bulgaria Bilär - the last stronghold - the Hightest Tower in the city was held for 40 women for 3 days against the Mongol invaders.

From What Im reading from academic Russian sources the Historians from Tatarstan She was like Joan of Arc for France but for Volga Bulgaria. Altynchech means ''The Golden-haired''.She was a Bulgarian princess, who lived in the late 12th century and early 13th century in the Volga Bulgaria, the daughter of the Volga Bulgarian ruler Jelal-ed-Din Altanbek Allen.Her father Died in 1236ad.Her Husband Bachman (Dont know if I wrote it right because I was listening an Audio Interview) was a Volga Bulgarian Noble who had blood line with the Cummans.She was active Bulgarian participant in the Mongol invasions of Volga Bulgaria. She commanded the elite Bulgarian 15 000 Guards Corps - men and women in battle. In the Siege of Bilär in 1236 only her Elite warriors broke out of the Siege of the 250 000 big city( who was doomed to be razed to the Ground) and escaped to Bandja(the city was just around Modern Samara in the local woods).Her Father - the Ruler of Volga Bulgaria Died in the Siege of Bilär.Bandja was then besieged from the Mongols and her Forces broke out again,but her Husband died in the Battle.After the Battle she escaped to the Ural mountains to the East and from here her historically confirmed goes into the Local Myths. In the Legends for Her she was wounded and with the Help of other Bulgarian Nobles she was hiding from the Mongols.The Legends of Volga Bulgarians today says that She was hiding somewhere in the Ural caves,from where she will always keep the Bulgarian land and Bulgarian people safe.

In the 18th century, another Volga Bulgarian women, Jamila - a poet wrote the poem Altanchach-Intent and keep the memory of the Bulgarian princess warrior.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Джамила “Алтънчач-наме” (1739 г.)
Алтынчач
Когда пришла в Самар-Булгар
Ужасная война
И выжег враг все города
-Как будто навсегда
–Отправилась я на коне
К горе Булгарской [Урал] – там
В пещере скрылась Алтънчач:
Не взять ее врагам!
Хотела я, на гору ту
Взобравшись, так сказать:
“Беда пришла – ты Алтънчач,
Должна нам помогать.
Уже погибло пол-страны,
Враг не щадить булгар…
Урусов [русских солдат] больше в десят раз,
Кругом войны пожар!
”Вот еду я – и те слова,Твержу, чтоб не забыть.
А людь бежить во все концы:
“Идет рус всех убить”
Вдруг на пожарище одном
Путь перерезал мне
Совсем молоденкий джигит
На серенком коньке.
Спросила я его:
“Малай!Что хочешь от меня?”
А он мне: “Ты ведь Алтынчач!Возьми с собой меня!
Я – девочка, погибли все,Мои родные здесь.
Хочу с тобой мстить врагам
Иль с пулей в землю лечь!
”Пока беседовали мы,
К нам робко подошли
Другие девушки – спаслись,
В лесу они одни.
Отцы их, деды и братья
В бою все полегли.
Тогда кольчуги тех мужчин
Дев торсы облекли.
С надеждой смотрят на меня
Небесные глаза:Все девы мстить хотят – и мне
Твердять: “Возми меня!”Тогда я, развернув коня
Сказала им: “За мной!”
К Мензелю скачет Алтынчач –И сорок дев за мной…

Another thing - the History of Volga Bulgaria until 1989-91 was Highly neglected by the Communist party in the USSR and on purpose and there was no funding about excavations in for Volga Bulgaria. Until the Fall of the Russian Empire in 1917 the region was always known as Volga Bulgaria,but in the Russian Civil War the Volga Bulgars created their own state for a Short time ,before the Red Army overran them. Later Lenin Renamed the newly formed Republic to Tatarstan. Nowadays 1 of the big local Parties wants to Rename from the Republic of Tatarstan to Bulgaristan. Even in the Fall of the USSR Tatarstan tried like the other republics to Go for Independence,but it was again for a short Time and Stayed in the Russian Federation. Another Thing - In Tatarstan there is a lot of Oil. And for the last 25 years the Study of the History of Volga Bulgaria is still in its infancy.

Cumman Female Warriors in the mod For Medieval 2: Rusichi-Total-War .The Volga Bulgarian Faction in the Mod also gots them.Starting date inthat mod is 1157ad.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Now to the Pics of the Volga Bulgarian Female Warriors.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Adoption of Islam in Volga Bulgaria.

Volga-Bulgarians vs Mongols.






From Volga-Bulgarian Forum

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Copyright Pic removed.



A battle between Volga Bulgars and Rus




Lightly armed Volga Bulgar soldier from the 11th century



Volga Bulgars from the 9th century



Ahmad Ibn Fadlan before Khan [elteber actually, IIRC, and later emir] Almush




This is the Research from the Broken Crescent mod team for Volga Bulgaria.Not Mine.

Yes I found this pics in many sources.
I will try put the links soon.

The Volga Bulgar pics there are from this page: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=158192.45

The names of the units from this page: http://www.s155239215.onlinehome.us/...6En_Titles.htm

Names of the military organisation:

Z. Z. Miftakhov
Lecture course on history of Tatar people

Lecture 16

Military and politico - social history of Volga Bulgaria of the 12 c.
Attachments and Tables

<= 3. Index of ethnonyms · 4. Index of military terms, titles, state offices · 5. Указатель географических названий, частей света =>

a - as a in arch, j - as j in jealousy, kh - as h in hug, ü - as u in munitions, y - as Y in York or as i in if

4. Index of military terms, titles, government agencies

Anar One of the forms of addressing a ruler, it was used in the initial stages of the Bulgarian ethnos
Angly General name for the coast guard squads (literally - "standing guard by the water")
Balikbashi Commander of a garrison of a small fortress, i.e. balik or suburb of a large city
Baltavar Title of the first rulers of the Bulgarian states. The word was formed from two words, "bal" - lord and "tavar" - Prince. Full translation: "Lord of Princes"
Bak (bek, bi) Title of the of a high rank feudal lord in service, later - prince
Bat Ruler, head, leader. Derivative is Batavyl: the headquarter of the ruler
Batyr Title of the head of a clan, small allodial prince
Bahadir Title of the middle rank feudal lord, a knight
Brig (Birig) Regional militia
Bika Lady, Princess
Guzar Lightly armed soldier of the third line. Other variations of the title: chirmysh, aydar
Djandar Shield bearer, bodyguard
Djura Mercenary, militiaman, member of feudal retinue
Divan Royal office, the governmen
Ilche Regent; representative of the ruler
Kaves 1) militiaman; 2) soldier of a garrison reporting to City council; 3) infantryman armed with arbalet; 4) suburb names in the cities of Bolgar and Kazan
Cossack 1) initial meaning, a knight battling without an armour out of neglect to death and bravery, and also one who gave a vow to not marry until performing some military feats; 2) later, feudal lord in service
Kan Kagann , Emperor. Derivative - Hakan
Karatun 1) crusader, 2) a Christian fanatic
Karaul Patrol, guard
Katau 1) log barrier, 2) ukreplennyj camp, 3) a fortress
Koryk Divisional banner in the Bulgarian army
Salchi Seaman
Soldash (Üldash) Hired soldier
Tavysh Hunnish name of a large segment of an army. The commanderof the tavysh is called tavyshchi or tuchi.
Tudjun Ambassador, envoy for special assignments
Tufang Cannon
Tuchi Military leader of several clans elected for the period of war
Urma Nationaly mobilized army
Ulan Heavily armed knight of the "first line"
Hatyn Spouse of the ruler, Empress
Sheredjirs Incendiary shells invented Bulgarian masters. In the Kiev Rus they were called "shereshirs" or " Besermen fire"
Elbir (bahadir) Soldier of the "second line"
Er-even Guardpost, military guardhouse
Yau tagan Bulgarian ballistic machine

And there the links for the other Bulgar names:

1. Index of cities, fortresses and stations
2. Index of rivers, lakes, seas, oceans
3. Index of ethnonyms
4. Index of military terms, titles, state offices
5. Index of geographical names, parts of the world
6. Index of Kazan Mosques

Hi, there I put some pictures of Volga Bulgaria

Volga-Bulgaria

Infantry:


Urma (spearmen)


Kaves (spearmen)


Kaves (archer)


Birig (spearmen)


Kaves veteran (archer)


Kaves marksman


Baryn-yaram (heavy infantry)

Calvary:


Yuldash


Jura


Jura Veteran


Horse Archer


Elbir (bahadir)


Hasham

Here are three examples of light horsemen unit; drawings were made by someone from Marka team, authors of Rusichi TW. They allowed us to use their graphics as a reference in unit making:

I'm posting only three, because I don't want to reveal too much.

Though I'm not sure now whether they weren't posted already on some Russian forum...

Archeology from "Arms and armor of the crusading era" by David Nicole

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[nnnm]

they have Hasham ???

[Slytacular]

I keep looking for sources about Bulgarian Volga female soldiers. There is not a lot of information for it. Is there any good sources for them?

[+Marius+]

Is there any good sources for them?

Not that I know of.

Some of the early medieval Bulgarian stuff is just fantasy.

I literally saw a Bulgarian museum curator even claim they knew kung-fu.

Hilarious.

[FrozenmenSS]

Now I wrote Everything I found about the Volga Bulgars in the 12-13th Century so this is from me. I updated the main post Above with the Historical Stuff.I will be glad if this helped you guys.

Not that I know of.

Some of the early medieval Bulgarian stuff is just fantasy.

I literally saw a Bulgarian museum curator even claim they knew kung-fu.

Hilarious.

its not Fantasy.Well Documented Stuff. In the 8th Century the Arabs were writing that they needed 10 Arabs to defeat 1 Bulgarian because of his skills. the probably closest name of this tradition was something like "Bu Vei" .In the ''Barbarian invasions'' Mod For Attila - I named the Final most Elite sword unit ''Bu Vei Masters'' but with normal Vanilla Attila stats. This Tradition as with the Female warriors died out with the fall of the First Bulgarian Empire in the Balkans,bot in Volga Bulgaria there were no catastrophes like this until the arrival of the mongols in the 13th Century.So its your free choice when the opportunity presents for each modder and to use it in his mod.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Medieval Byzantine painting from the 9th-10th century with Bulgarian Warrior.



And that Guy in the Video is Minister in the Government in Modern Bulgaria - Twice inthe past.So he cant talk idiotic stuff like an total idiot. And he is one of the Highest respected historians in Bulgaria for at least 30 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bozhidar_Dimitrov

[KAM 2150]

its not Fantasy.Well Documented Stuff. In the 8th Century the Arabs were writing that they needed 10 Arabs to defeat 1 Bulgarian because of his skills.

Well...Arab merchant from X century wrote that 1 polish knight is worth 100 german knights so I would be EXTREMLY careful with taking stuff like this as pure facts.

[finix]

Now that something is not in the internet and in the priceless collection of manuscripts does not mean they do not exist and this is fantasy!

Even if little information about female-warriors helps to enrich roster and make it unique ... I am for Yes!

Some of the early medieval Bulgarian stuff is just fantasy.

I literally saw a Bulgarian museum curator even claim they knew kung-fu.

Hilarious.

It is absurd to make fun of a leading historian, regardless of any nationality. This means that you are also a leading historian, in which I doubt it!