Medieval Kingdoms Total War Research Thread

[finix]

Some more pictures of the Bulgarian regular army. These are extremely accurate replicas:

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[nnnm]

>Seljuks states 1212

>Sultasn and Atabegs

• Sultan Al-Adil Abu baker Muhammad (Ayyubids)
  
  • Malik Al-Kamel -Egypt
  • Malik Al-MuAtham - Damascus
  • Malik Al-Ashraf - Aleppo
  • Malik Al-Awhad - Al-Jazerah (died1211) and Al-Ashraf took rule his regions
  • Malik Al-Masaud Saladin - Yemen (1215)
  
  
• Atabeg Aghlumsh of Jabal (Isfahan and Ray) vassal of Khawarezmians
• Seljuks of Rum - Sultan Aiz Ad'Din Kikawas
• Atabeg of Faris ( Sa,Ed Ad’Din of Faris)
• Atabeg of Azerbigan (Mu'thaffer Ad'Din Azbek)(Azerbizan - A'ran)
• Artaqids
  
  • Naseer Ad'Din Artaq Arslan ibn Ghazi (Marideen)
  • Naser Ad'Din Muhammaed inb muhammed (Hisn Kifa)
  
  
• Zangids
  
  • Mousl (Nasir Ad'Din Mahmod ibn Mas'Eud)
  • Senjar (Qutb Ad'din Muhammad ibn Zanki- his son Imad Ad'din Shahinshah
  
  
• Abbasids
  
  • AN’Nasir Abu AL-A’bbas Ahmad
  
  

>Seljuks states troops 1200-1300 (unlock with Imperium level)

• 
  
  • Sultani Askar I (minor stats) - Zangids, Artaqids , Aghlumsh of Jabal, Atabeg of Faris - Abbasids
    
    • Ghelman Khassah I (Bodyguards and Heavy Cavalry)
    • Jundariyah I ( guards - cavalry and Infantry)
    • Jalishiyah Jareedah (Elite light cavalry)
    
    
  • Sultani Askar II (Major stats) -Ayyubids - Seljuks of Rum - Seljuks of Azerbaijan
    
    • Tabardariyah (Infantry -Ayyubids and Zangids)
    • Mamaleek Sultaniyah (Ayyubids and Zangids - Cavalry)
    • Jalishiyah I
    • Hasham I (Rum Seljuks only - Cavalry and Infantry)
    
    
  • Sultani Askar III (Khawarizmians) -
    
    • Ghelman Khassah II
    • Shuhnakiyah (heavy garrison infantry in capital towns and general units)
    • Jundariyah II
    • Ghelman Sultaniyah (Khawarizmians, Abbasids and Azerbaijan - cavalry)
    • Hasham II
    
    
  
  

• States Asaker I
  
  • Duzdariyah ( castle garrison - infantry)
  • AOR Jund (Militia Jund)
    
    • Misr Jund (Egypt Jund)
    • Sham Jund (Palastine and Syria jund)
    • Iraq Jund
    • jund* “general unit”
    
    
  • Faction Jund (part of Iqta system - Infantry spearmen with bows)
    
    • Ayyubids Jund
    • Zangids Jund
    • Abbasids Jund
    • Khawarizmian Jund
    • Seljuks Jund (Rum Seljuks, Atabegs of Azerbaijan and
    • Faris and Artaqids )
    
    
  • Ghelman I
  • AOR Rumah (archers)
    
    • Turkoman Rumah
    • Turkoman Nashabah (darts archers - long range, useless vs armor, very fast reload)
    • Bedouin Zar’raqeen(Javelinmen )
    • Berber Rumah
    • Berber Zar’raqeen(Javelinmen )
    • Turkoman Zar’raqeen(Javelinmen )
    • Sudan Zar’raqeen
    • Sudan Rumah
    • Dailama Zar’raqeen
    • Rumah *general
    • Zar’raqeen (Javelinmen )*general
    
    
  • tribal units
    
    • Turkomans
      
      • Turkoman (light cavalry)
      • Turkoman Tabalkhanah (armored cavalry)
      
      
    • Bedouins
      
      • Bedouins (light cavalry - javelin)
      • Bedouins Ashraf (medium infantry and cavalry - javalin)
      
      
    • Berber
      
      • Berber (light infantry and cavalry - javalin)
      • Berber Ashraf (medium Inf and cavalry - javalin)
      
      
    • Kurds
      
      • Fursan Akrad (heavy cav)
      • Ashraf Akrad (heavy can inf)
      • Jund Akrad (inf)
      
      
    • Jarkhiyah (heavy crossbowmen garrison)
    
    
  
  
• States Asaker II
  
  • shuhnah (armored garrison)
  
  
• States Asaker III
  
  • Ghelman II
  • Faction Jund II
  • shuhnah II
  
  

------------------
Military Ranks

• Amir “Muqadam” Alf (or Amir Me’Ah - or commander of one hundred or Muqadam of one thousand ). Muqadam have 100 Faris (“knight”) under his command and might have more than 100 but this rank cannot be given to whom have less than 100 and in war, Muqadam have the command of a thousand Faris into battle at least and those are mostly were the governors of states or head Diwans (like ministries nowadays) and army high commanders.
• Amir “Tabal’khanah” rank (Amir Arbe’Eeen of Amir of Forty) and those had 40 Faris at least under their command. and those have drummers as status like Amirs of Me’Ah and the Sultan but in smaller fashion
• Amir Ashara (Amir of ten)and those have 10-20 Faris under thier command
• Halaqa Amir (Only Mamluks). He leads 40 of the Halaqa (Mamluks start their militry servece as Halaqa troops till they become fully fledge mamluks and they were free to work and live in the city and Amir have nothing to do with them unless they summoned to service.
• Amir Khams (Amir of Five) and those mostly given as honorary title for the sons of deceased Amir in battle

Diwan al-JayshDiwan al-Jaysh (Army Diwan) was concerned for organizing Iqta (Fief) and the records of troops and their Amirs, names, ranks,“Iqta” and their “Jamakiyah” (Revenue for troops - Arms, Armor, horses, and food for both troops and cavalry and some time servers like medical treatments or coins ) and it was given monthly but only to the troops that follow the Sultan Diwan and on lower level the troops following states Diwans but local vassals Amirs would have to organize that for themselves and their units as well as turkomans or Bedouin tribes will just have their Iqta unless they live near main roads then they will be charged for keeping it safe for small tributes from the state and traders and will form “khuthara” units (roads watch) on several posts on the road But those whom live on borders near enemy fight line, will be given “Jamikiyah” and they also will be excused from their Iqta revenue to the treasury . Also it was called Iqta Diwan or Ar’th Diwan (Army Review Diwan) because this Diwan was responsible for the gathering of troops before going to war and checking the units and their equipments and their number and occasionally the Army would be reviewed yearly at the Sultan request.In the Great Seljuks times, the vizer was the one who review the army in front of the Sultan from the highest ranks to the lowest. Every Amir will dismount and kneel in front of the Sultan then the vizier will state his name and ranks and his unit will dismount and step forward and kneel if mounted or just step forward and kneel if they are infantry and the vizier will state all of the units then dismiss them then the next unit. the Khawarizmains and Rum Seljuks continued the same practice because both consider themselves the heirs to the Great Seljuks while other Seljuk states will have the Diwan headmaster reviewing the army in front of the sultan or they will just pass in front of the Sultan in formation from highest ranking to lowest like Ayyubids. Also the Abbasids have the same practice as Great Seljuks even when the Abbasids where just vassals to the Seljuks, the Army will be reviewed in front of the Caliph out of respect. This practice started in Sultan Tughril bay the first time but it was much more simple. The Vizier would summon the Army and Every Amir Alf with 1000 horsemen would dismount then kneel from far with their Amir in front of them then the Sultan will dismiss them and the vizier will give the sign of dismissal then they will kneel again and mount their horses and the next 1000 will come till it over.the Iqta was organized through all the country and every unit and their Amir share the same Iqta. Third of it’s revenue for the Amir and two thirds distributed among his unit and that was organized and recorded through an edict from the Diwan and it was signed by the Sultan in mamluks times (Sultan Qala’wun strated in mamluks and he attend the Diwan early morning every Monday and Thursday but other states that was part of the Atabeg or the Viezer jobs ) and states units by their states Diwan. The edict recorded the Amir and his units names, ranks, pay, uniform and any Amir can’t replace any other Amir under him without an edict to do so or if two Amirs try to replace each other Iqta to get closer to their home or such. the Zangids since Nur Ad’Din Mahmood Zanki let the Iqta be inherited by the soldier children and the Ayyubids and the Mamluks did it after them. the if the children were too young, the Judge will appoint some1 to take care of that family but some1 from the family had to replace the father or the Iqta revenue would be given another who will fight and that made military life part of many families and started later the “Halaqa” mamluks in late Ayyubids. the Halaqa had Amir Tabalkhanah as their commander but he have nothing to do with them unless they were summoned to war. they mostly were the sons of Mamluks but they live like normal people unlike like mamluks in Forts and mostly work as craftsmen. Also Bedouins, Kurds and some locals would join the Halaqa for it’s Iqta revenue. Every Amir will get a gift horse every year based on their ranks. Muqadams would get more than the other and they will be with saddles with silver or gold decorations while Tabalkhanah and lower ranks will get horses without saddles and all will get hay for their horses from the Diwan as well but it it will vary from rank to rank. some Halaqa Amirs from Sultan Diwan as well will be gifted horses as well. Soldiers will get replacement for their horses if they died from the Diwan as well.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Jund

the Jund are the core infantry in Islamic world.and in 13th C Jund were mainly two types. Iqta Jund and the local Jund. the local Jund varies in skill and equipments and even in the same city local jund might varies between well trained and equipped in hands of local amirs to untrained and not armored locals that forced to raised arms to defend themselves or called upon by the governor but the majority were either lightly trained or not trained at all but they will be armed from the lolcal “Zirdkhanah” or by the local Amirs and they were mostly armed with swords or light war axes and light shields in general. the regular jund were organized into Iqta system in 11th C by Great Seljuks with majority of the regular troops in the empire. Iqta Jund are the lowest in ranks in Iqta system. they armed with Spear and sword and with long or round shields and composite bow. the bows heavily introduced into most military ranks by Seljuks turks and it become one of the most important weapon in Islamic warfare since and Jund arrow volleys proved to be dangerous against cavalry without armor "Paraxonat" and they were able to stop unarmored cavalry charges if they were without cover with arrows volleys. Iqta Jund armor consists of mail shirt and metal helmet and they wear uniform on top of their mail and Jund mail was shorter than cavalry mail. Infantry mail was just covering the chest while cavalry mail reached to knee. veterans in the Iqta Jund usually moved to Jundariyyah ranks but in major Seljuks states like Great Seljuks and Khawarizmians after them, they did form heavy Jund infantry from those veterans directly as part of Sultan’s troops. those troops kept away from the palace because their loyalty lies to their local Amirs and many of those local Amirs were in good term with Isma,Eili Da’Awah (Hashashins).

[The_Fawn_Rescuer]

It looks like you have a pretty good handle on what you are going to do for the European factions, but I wanted to make a suggestion regarding the design of the troops for the military orders. The banner of the Knights Hospitaller should be a white cross on a red field. Pre-1259 they would have worn a black mantle (for the most part, although this was not exactly standardized), but as to their shields, Dr. Helen Nicholson of Cardiff University makes a strong case that the Hospitallers would have worn the same arms on their shield as on their banner, as this was fairly common practice at the time.

Here are illuminations taken from two 13th century manuscripts which depict the banner of the Hospitallers as well as the Templars for reference.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Here is a very good reenactment group in the Netherlands who reenacts knights Hospitallers from 1200-1250, to give you an idea of how they should look.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In short, for the 13th century designs the Hospitallers should have red shields and wear black robes with white cross, whereas later designs should wear red surcoats with white cross on the front.
Example reference for later time period:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As to the Templars, theirs is a similar situation. As you can see in the previous illuminations, the Templar banner is white with a black bar at the top. Their shields should also reflect this, as Templars are depicted in several extant images with their shields painted in this way. In fact, one of the main reasons Dr. Nicholson believes the Hospitallers had red shields is because of these depictions of Templars matching their shields to their banners. The stipulations of their order were that they wore white surcoats emblazoned with a red cross over the heart.
Example:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Lastly, it would be great to see an officer unit of some kind for those orders. Perhaps he could wear a cloak or something to distinguish him? Often times grandmasters are depicted with their personal banner quartered with the cross of the order, so maybe the officers for the Templars and Hospitallers could have more distinctive shields - sort of like what you did with the Teutonic Knights.

Hope this was helpful.

[Flam]

We need cultural units for all factions , knight orders and definitely some african nations like makuria or nubians, maybe danish and others like this ones (wich are kinda easy since most of the content of this factions are in ATTILA, this is a hard project! can't wait to see it in the new game!

[finix]

Warman I have some suggestions about your latest posts /scottish and venetian units/

Scots Pike Militia
[IMG]
[/IMG]

How really look the Condottieri
[IMG][/IMG]

Late Italian knight/they have really small shields/

[IMG][/IMG]

and some italian helmets ...they are very different from other part of catholic warfare
[IMG][/IMG]

if this can be help!

[calgacus_1314]

Warman I have some suggestions about your latest posts /scottish and venetian units/

Scots Pike Militia
[IMG]
[/IMG]

How really look the Condottieri
[IMG][/IMG]

Late Italian knight/they have really small shields/

[IMG][/IMG]

and some italian helmets ...they are very different from other part of catholic warfare
[IMG][/IMG]

if this can be help!

Yeah those Scottish units are just perfect keep it accurate it is annoying for a Scot like me to have to play mods be it empire or medieval where all the soldiers are tartan clad I mean would you make french units with onions or russian units with vodka and dancing bears!

[foot soldier]

I would like to ask what research are the team looking for now .

[warman222]

Thanks for your reference pictures Finix. I'll try to adjust where I can. Regarding the Condottieri though, I've had a really tough time finding a consistent depiction of them. I've seen pics like yours to guys in full plate and knight helms. I tried to combine the different depictions for what you saw. That said I might be able to add those helms though,

[warman222]

Does anybody have an idea on what naval units I should give to the various factions in this mod? From what I can tell the ships in Attila are at least close enough to their Medieval counterparts to work here. In the Attila version I've been working on I gave England sea variants of the Yeomen Archers, Retinue Longbowmen, Sergeants and Armored Sergeants on the Towered Liburnian ship as a start, I need some more insight though.

[Lord Giovanni]

As some preliminary thoughts, the Byzantine Successor states and the Latin Empire should make use of Greek Fire ships, while crossbow-wielding marines should be the primary soldiers onboard Italian galleys. The different Italian factions can make use of their unique troops on sea just as well as land, like Venetian Heavy Infantry or Genoese Crossbowmen. The galleys of Muslim factions should have both regular soldiers (swordsman and bowmen) as well as assault ships of Corsairs. Corsairs would qualify as raider units. Those coastal provinces in which the Knights Hospitaller have a presence should be able to recruit Hospitaller galleys in which sergeants or foot knights are the assault crew.

[VINC.XXIII]

Here a reenactement group on medieval Pisa(1260-to 14th century)

http://www.pisaghibellina.it/index.php?q=node/48

[Clavs]

Does anybody have an idea on what naval units I should give to the various factions in this mod? From what I can tell the ships in Attila are at least close enough to their Medieval counterparts to work here. In the Attila version I've been working on I gave England sea variants of the Yeomen Archers, Retinue Longbowmen, Sergeants and Armored Sergeants on the Towered Liburnian ship as a start, I need some more insight though.

-Cog : Most common type of ship
-Hulk or Holk : As a more powerful variant of the Cog, same size and similar in shape as the Cog but with a castle looking wall at the front... and the stern's castle similar to how carracks would become in the future... Medieval 2's unit pictures show a good looking Holk.
Liburnian ships are similar in shape if they weren't damn long making them galleys.
-Galleys : More common with Iberians, Italians, Greeks and Arabs in general... There are several different types. Iberian and Italians having pretty much the same ones, greeks having a wider variety of galleys / dromons.

I suppose modelling ships is out of question?... Eastern Roman Empire have a complete roster fitting Byzantium... specially with the fire ships being exclusive for them and all... Western RE fits more every other western nation.

What's the timeline in the mod 1212 - 1??? ?

[The_Fawn_Rescuer]

Just started playing the second release, very impressed with what you guys have done with this. A few suggestions based on research:

Firstly, there is a distinct lack of cutting weapons among the infantry in this mod. I'm talking chiefly about falchions and langesmessers, though there could be more sword-type weapons in general. A quick search of period artwork from the 13th-14th century (and beyond) reveals that they were quite common (and probably much more common than some of the weird clubs and mallets the knights have in this mod, but that's not a big deal if you like that style I guess)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

13th Century, from the Morgan Bible


14th Century illumination from France


early 14th Century illumination from England

In short, please add some falchions! Here are some clearer examples for reference:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A fifteenth-century falchion

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Not exactly a period example, but this messer was made by Peter Johnsson, a well-known bladesmith and weapons historian. Here a German man-at-arms wields a messer (note also the feather in the other's helmet, this could be a great addition to some of the soldier models in the mod as well, especially for the Italians)

Another very common weapon among knights on foot of the later period are pollaxes, which are completely absent from this mod (except for a couple of 'halberd' designs in the halberd units). I'm talking about some sweet bec de corbins

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Based on a French example. The bronze disc is a slightly ahistorical design choice, but it looks cool in my opinion.

and warhammers.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

From the company of saint george, a well-known and respected Swiss reenactment group which focuses on the Burgundian Wars with very high accuracy standards.

These were typically about 5-6 feet in length and were primarily used by knights on foot from the mid 14th century on to the end of the 16th. Unlike halberds, which were based on farming implements and typically longer, these weapons were specifically designed with their spikes and hammers to defeat plate armor (halberds were used primarily to kill horsemen, their large axe blade at the front

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

being perfect for chopping a horse's legs, while the hook at the back was to pull a knight off his horse). So yeah, pollaxes.


Last, there was mention of Condottieri earlier in this thread. They wouldn't look any different from any other European man-at-arms, especially because they were most often mercenaries from other parts of Europe. Something that can help distinguish them, however, is that the Italians had a very particular style in armor. There is, for instance, a very distinct type of Italian bascinet helmet with a rounded skull that sweeps into the nape, pointed at the top. They called it a Barbuta, and it was so distinctive that in several Italian sources, Barbuta became a term synonymous with a man-at arms. It had a thinner face opening from other styles of bascinet, as shown by this well-known visor from the wallace collection:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Here is another extant example:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

where you can see high pointed top and sweeping angles really well. You included some more sallet-like Barbutas on the Venetian heavy infantry, but ironically the late Italian knights look the same as all the other Western European factions, whereas that unit could really be spruced up with some more unique-looking helmets. You could even call them 'Barbuta' instead of 'men at arms' to further add diversity to the rosters.

Hope this information is useful to you.

[+Marius+]

Well, now that I found this thread I think its time I start spamming links of my own

Effectiveness of gambesons(worn underneath mail/plate, or separately);

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CULmGfvYlso

Effectiveness of (proper)mail;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFu11mSutd0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao4yZ6D_g1M

Regarding plate;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEX21WgJzA8&t=27m58s (blunt trauma of a couched lance completely absorbed by the padding underneath the plate)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM6YbJ4XpjE&t=0m25s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrOIQRnKcnc&t=2m16s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNcKolKQ1F4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3Rm94QRREI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3997HZuWjk&t=1m30s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XngmQyV0vuA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76mbOMFjlu0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcXd3upAF8A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4el5gX6_98
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1YEkuWYUKM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwKKgUokbfo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x7tUzqoosY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwKNBB9Ww2E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8FGmqU25JQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCFMFeZ0JvQ


Will post another batch of stuff in a couple of hours

[+Marius+]

Maps(using direct links instead of forum image posting because of image size);

http://www.heritage-history.com/maps...ps/phil034.jpg
http://www.learn.columbia.edu/course...annsIIpg70.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/histo...anean_1190.jpg



http://www.vrilo-mudrosti.hr/karte/vm-karta-druga%20polovina%2013st.jpg
(Posting this because what we now call Dalmatia should not go to Venice until the 17th/18th century, a major mistake made by every single game dev that has been pissing me off since 2001).

[+Marius+]

Whelp, here's a bag of stuff;

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Lemonater47]

One thing that's missing from the western Kingdoms are Knights with unarmoured horses. Armoured horses weren't as common as Knights with unarmoured horses. Even at battles in the 100 years war such as Agincourt and Crecy the French mounted Knights didn't have many armlured horses. The Knights themselves were fully armoured to their time period (though not the best quality armour, untempered steel mostly even some wrought iron breastplates). That's part of the reason why french cavalry charges against small longbow heavy English armies failed so much. Their horses weren't armoured. So when they reached the English positions which were defended by stakes there were a lot less of them as they were all wounded. But they were still a very effective force against infantry and other cavalry.

Most sources say the french had mostly unarmoured horses. As did the English. Well into the 15th century let alone the 13th.

At the battle of Verniulle the French hired mercenary Italian heavy cavalry freshly equipped by the armouries in Milan the best armoury at the world at the time. They had just discovered a way to specially harden armour without making it shatter on impact and while keeping it lightweight. Only 2mm thick on the breastplate itself. But it made those who wore it completely arrow proof. Arrows could only penatrate at under 20m from powerful longbows and could only injure the one wearing it when fired at the guy point blank. Which is hard for an archer to do. 2000 of these horsemen against 2000 English archers. 8000 English in all. These cavalry smashed into the English going straight through all the english lines scattering them. The Italians then decided to not stop and eventually found the english baggage train which they then sacked. Problem was they actually hasnt killed very many of the english. The English gathered up and charged the French and Scottish forces (who made up half the French casualties). The italians came back afterwards and found 8000 dead bodies. 8000 dead french and scottish. It's safe to say that they weren't payed for their efforts.

But yeah. A medium knight both for early and High medieval periods is necessary. Shock cavalry.



On medieval navies, they pretty much used merchant ships as warships. It was only until the mid 15th century where dedicated warships were built and even their designs were based off merchant vessels. The Cog was the primary ship. Varied in size dramatically. Early french and English navies actually used viking style longships well into the 13th century until they too adopted the Cog. But that was only because the merchants found it could carry more cargo than the Longship. A larger ship called a Hulk was used as a warship and a smaller oar powered ship called a Ballinger was used as a small assault ship in the high medieval period. The Ballinger was essentially an enlarged fishing ship with a sqaure rigged sail stuck on top.

These are all northern ships. Originally based on Viking designs. Shios further south were based on rlman designs like the Galley. Thoigh there were Galley type hybrids used in the north which were sort of low riding oar powered cogs. The galley being such a SUCCESFUL residing ship since the 8th century. Used all the way up to the 18th century. Whenever a fleet needed to be prepared anywhere in the world the Galley was always in that fleet. In the north it was often thenomly par powered ship in medieval navies till the Ballinger came along. But that was much smaller.

Crews were compeltely mixed. Completely mixed. Archers, spearmen, Knights, militia men. Equipped with swords, spears, various polearms, ranged weapons and such. You can't really do that in Crossbows were a popular naval weapon however. Most merchant ships actually had a bunch of crossbows on board a ship. For pirate defence. Though usually not the most powerful kinds. But when these merchant ships were levied into the armed forces the crossbows were levied with them. Ballistae were sometimes mounted to Ships.

[reichmar]

One thing that's missing from the western Kingdoms are Knights with unarmoured horses. Armoured horses weren't as common as Knights with unarmoured horses. Even at battles in the 100 years war such as Agincourt and Crecy the French mounted Knights didn't have many armlured horses. The Knights themselves were fully armoured to their time period (though not the best quality armour, untempered steel mostly even some wrought iron breastplates). That's part of the reason why french cavalry charges against small longbow heavy English armies failed so much. Their horses weren't armoured. So when they reached the English positions which were defended by stakes there were a lot less of them as they were all wounded. But they were still a very effective force against infantry and other cavalry.

Most sources say the french had mostly unarmoured horses. As did the English. Well into the 15th century let alone the 13th.

But yeah. A medium knight both for early and High medieval periods is necessary. Shock cavalry.

This so much. Mail and caparisons over barding existed and were used in the 13th century, however not nearly to the extent that people tend to think. It took a while for horse barding to get very prominent; Lemon's example is exactly on point. Barding was a response to infantry tactics that started targeting mounts instead of riders.

We definitely need to see lots of mail-clad horsemen on unarmored horses in this time period.

re: that medium knight idea at high era... Here's one example that instantly came to mind! (I'll formulate a Portugal research pack to post somewhere in this forum) Portugal should have access to a quick medium horse unit called vilãos
They were freemen of means that owned their own horse and armor and were retained by the king as a cavalry response force that could be called into action at a moment's notice. They were allowed to retire at 60. Unarmored horse, but they could afford armor, so were clad in mail.

Now, I don't know what you guys are planning as far as knight recruitment times, but if knights are set to 2 turns per (as I think they should be imho), this would be a great faction unit that would be 1 turn per, fast, and would be armored in mail at high era gameplay. Useful as a less armored, but faster knight unit that would naturally be great for counter cav and, in late battle, flanking.

[reichmar]

Kingdom of Portugal




⦁ founded 1139 (domestic recognition of Afonso I as sovereign)
⦁ recognized by former overlords in 1143 (Zamora)
⦁ recognized by Pope Alexander III in 1179


Founding dynasty: House of Burgundy (colors above):


⦁ Afonso I (1139-1185)
⦁ Sancho (1185-1212)
⦁ Afonso II (1212-1223)

Inspiration for faction leader in Campaign selection screen:
⦁ Statue of Afonso I "the conqueror"





Map (Applied to Attila):



Attila borders/settlements (credit to a guy on Reddit for the blank map):




*With respect to the capital of the Kingdom in this timeframe, it would have been Coimbra. Unfortunately, Coimbra's approximate location is not present on the Attila map and a second location more suitable for the role was selected -- in this case Braga, which was a seat of power when Portugal was still a county.


*Some creative liberties need to be applied in the interpretation of the Attila map for medieval work-- the province lines don't match up with many of the known borders at the time. Thus, the Christian kingdoms on the peninsula will likely not have their correct borders. This is especially the case for León, Castille, Navarre, and Aragon.


*In addition, settlements like Granada cannot be placed exactly where they are in the real world (and, when faced with the reality that the "Malaca" on the Attila map is where "Málaga" is, for example, one has to choose between it and another important location in the XIII century: Granada).


*Valencia is another example. On the Attila map, the Roman town of Segobriga has no counterpart to the medieval era that is THAT significant. Valencia is a coastal city whereas Segobriga is not. Up to interpretation by the mod developers here, but IMHO I'm leaning towards seeing Valencia on the map, even if it doesn't have a harbor.

Military Organization


The mod's overarching system for generating unit classes readily applies to later period Iberian kingdoms.


Early period Iberian military culture relied on a combination of peasant (called Peones; think chess pawn) and militia infantry, with knights divided between royal/noble knights (Cavaleiro in Portuguese) and commoner knights (Cavaleiro-Vilão in Portuguese) who were well-off residents typically called upon in time of need.


Cavalry tactics in Ibera during the early period involved horseback skirmishing with javelins followed by a charge. Couched lances didn't become popular until they started to flow southward from France (roughly XI century). So right around 1212, standard medieval fare would apply -- though it's important to note that Iberian kingdoms did not have the same financial might as the larger European powers like France, England, HRE, etc. Because of this, force sizes tended to be smaller and less well outfitted than what could be mustered elsewhere in Europe (less common horse barding, for example).


Very important to note that a significant aspect of military power came from military orders and mercenaries, such as Frankish/Flemish Knights that were used to augment the smaller Iberian armies. This is largely because the peninsula is under-populated. In fact, Iberian kings during the Reconquista from old Asturias to the contemporary kingdoms of this mod's timeframe engaged in very heavy settlement programs. (Sancho I of Portugal was known as "the Populator" for a reason)

Military Orders (Domestic):


Knights of St. Benedict of Aviz (Order of Aviz): Founded 1146 in Évora, Portugal.





Artist's rendition of an Aviz Knight (Below):







Rendition is well researched. Aviz cross present on cloak, however the knight carries a shield bearing the Portuguese colors (founding House of Burgundy).


Military Orders (Foreign):


Knights Templar
Order of Calatrava
Order of Santiago de Compostela (Saint James of the Sword/etc)

images of knights/etc:






The makers of Stainless Steel for Medieval 2 did a great job researching banners/etc and would be a good source to use for MK:1212

[reichmar]

continued:





painting depicting the Battle of Aljubarrota (note Portuguese banner/horse barding on right):



Other common banner themes include various blue and red crosses, either in a t or X shape adorned with multiple Fleur-de-Lis.