No Peace in Our Time - the 1939 World War II IH

[Dirty Chai]

I'm considering just cutting down and consolidating the divisions, since the majority of them were only half-manned (as in 6,000 average when they're supposed to be 10,000).

[Dirty Chai]

Okay, so update on KMT military;
I've amassed a list of the recorded divisions and army groups.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

War Area 1 - Central Corridor between Kaifeng and Xuchang in Henan
- Army Group 3: 111, 112, 163, 164, 196
- Army Group 5: 7, New 3, 84, 2, 165, New 27
- Army Group 14: 47, 54, 24, 85, 94, 64, 65, 70, New 47, 10, 42, 169
- Army Group 36: 58 Prov., 10 Cavalry, New 4, 3 Cavalry

War Area 2 - Upper Yellow River in Shaanxi and Shanxi
- Army Group 4: 17, New 35, 104, 177
- Army Group 6: 68, 37 Prov., 42 Prov., 69, 72, 48 Prov., Cav 1, Cav 2
- Army Group 7: 86, 71, 38 Prov., 41 Prov., 73, 44 Prov., 45 Prov.

War Area 3 - In charge of South-East Coast & Jiangxi/Jiangdong
- Army Group 10: 26, 105, 5 Reserve
- Army Group 23: 146, 147, 148, 144, 145, New 7,
- Army Group 25: New 21, New 30, 32 Prov., 63, 75
- Army Group 32: 40, 55, 108, 62, 192, 32, 41, 44, 46, 16, 79, 67

War Area 4 - Far Southern Coast
- Army Group 4: 49, 93, 55 Prov., 14, 50, 23
- Army Group 16: 131, 135, 170, 175, New 19
- Army Group 26
- Army Group 35: 155, 156
- Army Group 37: New 28, New 29, New 38
- Army Group 38: 9, 33, 76, 96, 200 Motorized, New 22, 15 Prov., 52 Prov., 59 Prov.
- Army Group 12: 151, 157, 158, 152, 153, 186, 154, 160, 187, 66, 49 Prov., 50 Prov.,

War Area 5 - Hubei/Hunan, east of Sichuan
- Army Group 2: 27, 30, 31, 191, 7 Reserve, 74, 29, 38, 180, 9 Cav., 143, 119, 36 Prov.,
- Army Group 31: 21, 142, 14 Prov., 89, 110, New 1, 18, 199, 91, 16 Prov., 178, 188, 4, 25, 11 Reserve
- East Hubei Guerrilla Force: 171, 172, 3 Guerrilla, 4 Guerrilla, 138, 176
- Army Group 22: 122, 124, 125, 127,
- Army Group 24: 77, 5 Prov., 15
- Army Group 28: 40 Prov., 46 Prov., 47 Prov.
- Army Group 29: 149, 150, 161, 162
- Army Group 31: 89, 110, New 1, 18, 199, 91, 16 Prov., 178, 188, 4, 25, 11 Reserve
- Army Group 33: 56, 36, 87, 88, 6, 13, 4 Cav., 37, 132, 179, 185, 1 Honor, 5
- Army Group 8: 116, 130

War Area 8 - Gansu, Xinjiang, Ningxia; Many Muslim troops
- Army Group 17: 6 Prov., 31 Prov., 35, 100, New 8 Cav., 61 Prov., 5 Cav., 1 Prov. Cav.,
- Cavalry Army 6: 101, New 31, New 32, New 3 Cav., New 4 Cav.,

War Area 9 - West of Lake Dongting
- Army Group 1: New 10, New 11, 184, New 7 Cav.,
- Army Group 15: 3, 10 Reserve, 190, 60, 95, 140, 195,
- Army Group 19: 183, 12, 139, 141, 19, 107, 9 Reserve, New 14, New 15, 34, 51, 57, 58
- Army Group 20: 43, 198
- Army Group 27: 133, 134, 5 Prov., 6 Prov., 82
- Army Group 30: New 13, New 16, 59, 90, 102, 92, 99, 118, 197,

War Area 10 - Behind Enemy Lines in Anhui, Dabie Mountains, Shangdong, Kiansu, Hebei
- Army Group 34: 1, 78, 167, 4 Prov., 64 Prov., 28, 53, 61, 109, 1 Reserve, 3 Reserve
- Shangdong-Jiangsu Group: 14 Prov., 113, 114, 20, 62,
- Hebei Group: 98, 194, 6 Prov.,

"New" - I think this means that there used to be an old division of the name #, that's all.
"Prov." - Provisional. I guess this means "temporary"... so conscripts? Or does this mean something like support?
"Cavalry" - obvious.
"Reserve" - Reserve troops.. so, best soldiers? What do you guys think? I think these may be the German-trained divisions.
"Honor" - no clue.
"Guerrilla" - obvious. Is there a good unit type for this?

So I'm thinking I should consolidate these into less divisions, and thus bring the division sizes up to the normal amount (ex 10,000 for Infantry).
I think most of the divisions are just normal infantry, but I will research more to find out.

Also, you may notice that the majority of the military is based in the south, along the Yangtze River.
This may explain why the Communists were able to have a strong presence in the north once they moved north to Shaanxi.

[Dave Strider]

The First Division of the ROC Army was known as the "Honor" Division, so it's basically just a cosmetic title. Kinda like how the 1st Infantry Division of America is known as the Big Red One, or how the 1st Rifle Division of the USSR was known as the Moscow Proletarian Red Guards, or something like that.

I don't know how one would distinguish between the German-trained divisions, the normal divisions, and the provisional divisions, truthfully. The provisional ones could be conscripts, I suppose, while the German-trained ones could be Light Infantry or something of the like?

[Dirty Chai]

I was thinking Mechanized Infantry for the German-trained divisions, as they were the troops properly trained and equipped, with the best battle performance.
I guess Light Infantry might work better though.

[Dave Strider]

I don't think you even have Mechanized unlocked, do you? Isn't that like a level 4 land technology?

[Dirty Chai]

Oh you're right I thought it said 2.

Light Infantry it is. Maybe double size though? The German-trained troops are the ones who are specifically pointed at as being full strength, at 10,000 men.

[Pericles of Athens]

I think the point of light infantry is that they're better trained but smaller in number.

Edit
Though modern western divisions are classified as regular infantry, so I'd think regular infantry would suffice for Chinese units trained by westerners.

[Dave Strider]

I think you'd have to take that one up with Barry.

[Dirty Chai]

Well, there's only a small handful of them, but I see your point.

[Pericles of Athens]

Is anyone playing as Belgium and/or the Netherlands?

[Dirty Chai]

I am the Netherlands

Edit: Actually, can I just drop the Netherlands?
I'd rather just focus on one nation, the ROC.

--------------------------------------------

@KMT Army,

Here's what I can do:

(A) Simply cut down the majority of the divisions to around or just above half-size, and proportion their upkeep costs accordingly.

(B) Consolidate the divisions by combining them to make a few full-strength divisions (10,000 men) instead of a multitude of half-strength ones.
This would be easier on us for ease-of-play reasons, but might be a bit detrimental to the historical state of the KMT in 1939.

The KMT apparently had a Mechanized Infantry unit created in 1938, but was later reduced to a Motorized Infantry unit that same year.
And that unit, the 200th Motorized, seems to be the only Motorized unit in the whole army.

That said however, I think it would be apt to interpret the handful of "Reserve" units (which I've decided will be my German-trained divisions) as being Motorized Infantry, instead of Light Infantry.

One way or another though, the KMT military seems to be very 19th century - lots and lots of cannon fodder and limited firepower.

[Barry Goldwater]

@BF Sure, if you believe that's necessary. The Dutch probably won't come into play for another turn anyway. Maybe have like, two or three of the German-trained divisions be Mot. Inf and leave the rest as regular infantry? As for the numbers of the other divisions, go for whichever option you think is best, I can accommodate either since it looks like your total number of soldiers won't actually change either way, just the way their units are structured.

Also, I think Fred's suggestion for an Italian unique bonus holds merit. So here's what I suggest:

Italy: 'Marcia dei Legioni': For every full country that was once ruled by the Roman Empire and has been subjugated by the Italians, all Italian units gain a +1 combat star. (the countries that qualify are France, Britain, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Yugoslavia, Egypt, Hungary, Romania, Turkey, Belgium and Luxembourg; it isn't enough for the Italians to just conquer them with or without assistance, they must also establish direct rule without puppets in these territories)

And finally, Fred's collectivization proposal could function as the left-wing dictatorial bonus/malus. So what I propose now is that we rebrand the old Dictatorship bonus/malus the 'Right-Wing Authoritarian' bonus/malus, and give Collectivization to 'Left-Wing Authoritarian' states. The collectivization bonus to building times/costs could be set at -5%, in exchange for a +5% dissent hit every time it's used (since otherwise it'd exceed the USA's inherent 'Arsenal of Democracy' bonus). What do you guys think of the above two proposals?

[Dan the Man]

@BF Sure, if you believe that's necessary. The Dutch probably won't come into play for another turn anyway. Maybe have like, two or three of the German-trained divisions be Mot. Inf and leave the rest as regular infantry? As for the numbers of the other divisions, go for whichever option you think is best, I can accommodate either since it looks like your total number of soldiers won't actually change either way, just the way their units are structured.

Also, I think Fred's suggestion for an Italian unique bonus holds merit. So here's what I suggest:

Italy: 'Marcia dei Legioni': For every full country that was once ruled by the Roman Empire and has been subjugated by the Italians, all Italian units gain a +1 combat star. (the countries that qualify are France, Britain, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Yugoslavia, Egypt, Hungary, Romania, Turkey, Belgium and Luxembourg; it isn't enough for the Italians to just conquer them with or without assistance, they must also establish direct rule without puppets in these territories)

And finally, Fred's collectivization proposal could function as the left-wing dictatorial bonus/malus. So what I propose now is that we rebrand the old Dictatorship bonus/malus the 'Right-Wing Authoritarian' bonus/malus, and give Collectivization to 'Left-Wing Authoritarian' states. The collectivization bonus to building times/costs could be set at -5%, in exchange for a +5% dissent hit every time it's used (since otherwise it'd exceed the USA's inherent 'Arsenal of Democracy' bonus). What do you guys think of the above two proposals?

Every individual country? If it's going to play out like World War II did OTL, there's no way Italy is conquering any country without assistance. I can see them maybe taking on the whole of Greece alone, but without German help it's just not going to happen anywhere else.

[Barry Goldwater]

That's kind of the point It'd make for quite the challenge for our Italian player (Cels), and he could just settle for 'only' grabbing the weakest factions like Greece (which would still give him a few bonus quality stars). Alternatively, instead of entire modern countries it could be based on the borders of the Roman provinces during Trajan's reign, which would allow him to settle for bits of each conquered faction and still get the bonus.

[Celsius]

Every individual country? If it's going to play out like World War II did OTL, there's no way Italy is conquering any country without assistance. I can see them maybe taking on the whole of Greece alone, but without German help it's just not going to happen anywhere else.

Celsius has done great things with Italians in the past.

[Pericles of Athens]

Granting combat stars for these conquests seems arbitrary, perhaps a morale bonus for each of these conquests is more applicable?

[Dave Strider]

I think Roman provinces would be more reasonable rather than entire modern countries Maybe there's a 25% chance of a quality star, a 25% chance of a tech level increase of the player's choice, or a 50% chance of no effect?

As for collectivization - would a staggered subtraction ratio for construction days work? Like, from red to blue it removes one day, from blue to light green two days, and light to dark green three days?

As for the 5% dissent hit, would that be for every province collectivization was used on (i.e. if I collectivized 10 provinces would I have 50% dissent)?

[Dan the Man]

Granting combat stars for these conquests seems arbitrary, perhaps a morale bonus for each of these conquests is more applicable?

I like this better. Conquering land does not necessarily lead to better-quality troops, but higher morale makes a ton of sense.

[Dave Strider]

How does one measure morale in this game, though?

[Dan the Man]

How does one measure morale in this game, though?

We use dice-rolls in combat to make decisions, don't we? Including decisions for when units retreat? Just modify the numbers. Say rolling certain numbers in one of those cases results in a retreat, just lower the chances every time a country on Barry's list is taken by the Italians.