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Thread: Feedback: Elves

  1. #21

    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    It might be nice to have some custom battles of the kin-slayings.

  2. #22
    Doomsday's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    Those regions are not supposed to be able to grow in population but there are advantages to this that may occur to you after playing them a while.
    I understand that the elves shouldn't be able to field huge forces and can't expand fast, but completely unable to build a unit? they can't find 60 elves in one of their great cities?
    Aymez Loyaulté

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    Yes, and very justifiably so. First take into account that nowhere, not even during their heyday in the Second Age, were Forlond and Harlond described as great cities. Even during the 3rd age the total military High Elven contribution to the War of the Ring was 2 half-elven and the northern Dunedain, who arguably would have been at least as populous (being men) managed to muster only 30.

    So everything indicates that the population of Lindon was already tiny at the end of the 3rd Age, and then most of them left over the sea. Add to that how the RTW engine limits us. The lowest possible population in a region is 400 and the lowest possible growth is 400*0.5=2. For the elves assuming that none die or sail west that means 2 births every 6 months, which is way too many according to all known lore even for the woodland realms, much less the mostly abandoned Havens.

    The fact that we have any population growth at all in the Havens stretches the lore to breaking point, but for gameplay reasons, and fun, we have allowed some.
    Last edited by webba84; January 07, 2015 at 08:52 AM.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    I would add to what webba84 has said: The population numbers in this mod do not represent absolute population numbers, but rather that portion of the population which are willing, or forced, to contribute to administration and recruitment pools. One is to imagine that there might be a real population of 1000, or 100,000 in any given province, but of this population you might have only 500 who are: A, of service age; B, willing to work with your government; and C, able to work with your government. The actual populations of provinces are, in this model, quite disconnected from "Able-Bodied" population in your settlement screen. In the case of Elves, rather than thinking of two Elves coming of age each year in a settlement, you could think of two more Elves; already centuries old; deciding to contribute to the Elven King's administration, rather than wandering around the woods, or composing ballads, or whatever fruity stuff Elves usually do.
    Last edited by Wambat; January 09, 2015 at 10:57 AM.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    Nice breakdown of the numbers there, Webba; I never looked at it that concretely before.
    One of the most sophisticated Total War modders ever developed...

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    What provinces are good for elves?
    EDIT: Nvm, I went to check in the files.


    Is it said anywhere, ingame, where the "elvellyn" resource is located? Because that'd be nice.
    Last edited by Hopit; January 09, 2015 at 10:29 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtScooter View Post
    If you went to the Skyrim forums you'll see a lot posts about how it's somehow been watered down and hampered by money men making the decisions. Fact is, it's a great game and people still complain. It's the same thing as the TW franchise.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    Elvellyn are available anywhere, though they are immediately available outside the Elves' homelands (you also won't find them in the Shire or Dwarven lands). To make them available in Elven, Dwarven, or Hobbit lands, you'll need to build the appropriate regional building, which simulates settling Men in the province. In-game, check the 'Elves' building in any settlement, or the regional buildings in your Elven homelands
    One of the most sophisticated Total War modders ever developed...

  8. #28

    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    I'm on my third campaign with the Elves.
    Recommended campaign and battle difficulty
    Large unit size

    The first attempt I tried to turtle, this failed but I played to 385 and gave up due to debt and Adunabar attacking Lorien.
    Glorfindel and Thranduil died/departed in the first 15 turns.
    The generals bodyguards numbers increased after each turn till they reached their optimal size, this adds about an extra 2000 gold to your army upkeep, it effects all factions but the elves with their poor economy and large number of generals are probably the most affected by it.

    RK, Dale, Rohan and Rhun where beating Adunabar, Khand had conquered most of Far harad, Harad had wiped out Harondor and was attacking RK. Tharbad had expanded against Dunland, RK and Adunabar. Rohan wiped out Dunland. Rhovanion and Dorwinion where wiped out by Dale which has also exoanded in Angmar.

    The second attempt, I expanded quickly against rebels, taking provinces that bordered my own.
    I took 5 border provinces but these did not improve the financial situation and before long I was in debt and unable to improve any provinces. The provinces where not very wealthy and I adopted 2 new generals.
    Glorfindel died/departed on turn 10, Thranduil lives
    Adunabar attacked Lorien and while holding them back I was unable to reinforce due to money woes, the only reason I was able to hold them at all is because I marched the 2 new adopted generals from the the eleven kings halls to Lorien.
    I stopped playing around 382.

    Adunabar had taken Minas Anor and Pelagir while also expanding in Angmar.
    Dunland still around but under threat from Rohan and Tharbad
    Rhovanion and Dowinion, Far Harad and Harondor wiped out.

    The third attempt is ongoing
    I attacked towards Sarnford and Threeways, taking both settlements and attacking Tharbad.
    Continued the attack on Tharbad till they where left with only Lond Daer.
    Finances are much better and Threeways is my best province but will not convert from way of the shadow.
    Have all of the original elven provinces growing, except Harlond and Forlond which where converted to mannish population.
    Glorinfindel died/departed in 375 and Thranduil died/departed in 381(I reloaded as I forgot to assault so he lives).
    I accepted a peace offer from Adunabar so I could focus on Eriador.
    Army composition is now mostly mercs, elvellyn and a few elves.

    Dunland slowly losing provinces to Rohan and RK, not having Tharbad around has benifited them.
    Harondor going strong and doing naval invasions of RK, they appear to be holding back harad with a full stack
    Dorwinion still around but is a protectorate(this seems to be very common until their dimise)
    Rhovinion are the only faction that has been wiped out.
    Adunabar are doing ok but they are at war with Rhun and I have to reclaim Rivendell.



    Is there a benifit to holding Ost in Edhil as I can't build or recruit anything?
    The balance in the elven campaign is very good due to the low population growth and it really encourages a minimal battle casulty approach.
    I would like to see Glorfindel stay around for longer as his unit is very useful maybe change him from old to youthful for gameplay sake
    3 CTD's, 2 after battle( I now wait about +30 seconds before going back to camapign map) and one after end of turn which did not replicate after reload.
    On the whole I have to say this mod is very polished for a beta

  9. #29
    Aikanár's Avatar no vaseline
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    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    There is no benefit in holdin Ost-in-edhil yet, this will change in the final release.

    As for the financial situation, I suggest to take Lune, Langwyke and Feorfeld as soon as you can and send a small expeditionary force to Rivendell. Focus on pacification and region development buildings in those three manish settlements and you will find that you can access a new sort of income there: land tax.

    Moving your capitol to Caras Galadhon helps a little with economy too.

    Also be careful with your troops, you won't need much troops in the West, in fact all you need to take Lune is a General and one regiment of Threshold troops. All the rest you can take to march to Rivendell - you might need troops in the West again further down the road to deter an attack on you by the dunedaic factions. Eriador Bowman Mercenaries work wonder as garrisons and are very cheep.

    As for the east, your initial troops are enough to take the two fiefdom settlements Langwyke and Feorfeld but won't be enough to deter Dale or the Beornings for long. 2 or three regiments of greenwood guards or greenwood scouts will suffice to deter Dale for quite some time.

    Down in the south in and around Lorien you will sooner or later find Rohan being the chief aggressor, it will take a serious force to deter them successfully for some time, but it also will take some time for Rohan to grow aggression against you since they first will focus on Duneland and/or expanding over the plains of Rhovanion.

    The key to financial success is really to develop your manish fiefdom settlements, especially the provincial development building tree.

    Edit: and what really is the curcial key to city development and financial well being as well as for massively reducing building and recruitment costs is to have governors reside in cities and acquire the lordship anc, the lordship trait and especially the "attuned governor" trait.
    Last edited by Aikanár; January 10, 2015 at 06:23 AM.


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks, Makrell, Kaiser Leonidas, Iskar, Neadal, Sheridan, Bercor and HigoChumbo, house of Siblesz

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  10. #30
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    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    Quote Originally Posted by CountMRVHS View Post
    Elvellyn are available anywhere, though they are immediately available outside the Elves' homelands (you also won't find them in the Shire or Dwarven lands). To make them available in Elven, Dwarven, or Hobbit lands, you'll need to build the appropriate regional building, which simulates settling Men in the province. In-game, check the 'Elves' building in any settlement, or the regional buildings in your Elven homelands
    There are literally 4 provinces with Elvellyn resource

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtScooter View Post
    If you went to the Skyrim forums you'll see a lot posts about how it's somehow been watered down and hampered by money men making the decisions. Fact is, it's a great game and people still complain. It's the same thing as the TW franchise.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    And if you look deeper you'll notice that the Elvellyn resources means you can recruit more Elvellyn earlier, and that many are still recruitable without it it.

    Or you could take one of the mod teams word for it

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    Quote Originally Posted by webba84 View Post
    And if you look deeper you'll notice that the Elvellyn resources means you can recruit more Elvellyn earlier, and that many are still recruitable without it it.

    Or you could take one of the mod teams word for it
    I thought you could only build elvellyn guards from those places.
    Quess I was wrong.
    (ALso I did go and check the buildings.txt file, but after seeing how different it was compared to vanilla, my brain fried and I just closed it silently
    In my defence, it has been more than 2 years since I last even had RTW on my hard drive)
    Last edited by Hopit; January 10, 2015 at 12:10 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtScooter View Post
    If you went to the Skyrim forums you'll see a lot posts about how it's somehow been watered down and hampered by money men making the decisions. Fact is, it's a great game and people still complain. It's the same thing as the TW franchise.

  13. #33
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    Oh yeah, first time I looked at our edb file it was terrifying! Aradan is on another level when it comes to stuff like this.

    The elvellyn resource, btw, corresponds to fiefdoms for elves in game, meaning anytime you see a reference to fiefdoms then it is talking about those regions. They get the best range of Elvellyn units (including the Guards, as you noticed) but other regions still give you something to recruit.

  14. #34
    Hopit's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    Quote Originally Posted by webba84 View Post
    Oh yeah, first time I looked at our edb file it was terrifying! Aradan is on another level when it comes to stuff like this.

    The elvellyn resource, btw, corresponds to fiefdoms for elves in game, meaning anytime you see a reference to fiefdoms then it is talking about those regions. They get the best range of Elvellyn units (including the Guards, as you noticed) but other regions still give you something to recruit.
    Be that as it may, but as I these days prefer to play very minimilastic (TW's in general) I just try to get the stuff that "feels like I should and could get them".

    I discovered my gameplay style after a RTW 4-7 hour world conquest and thought, this is enough... (Like 5 years ago xD)

    I saw that there was a mention, ingame, of all the 8 provinces with elf population, I didn't see anything related to those "super human elf provinces".

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtScooter View Post
    If you went to the Skyrim forums you'll see a lot posts about how it's somehow been watered down and hampered by money men making the decisions. Fact is, it's a great game and people still complain. It's the same thing as the TW franchise.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    Shouldn't Elves be able to build Stone Wall? Or rather, shouldn't the Lindon settlements definitely be protected by those?
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

  16. #36
    Aikanár's Avatar no vaseline
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    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    Timber wall is actually the equivalent to huge stone wall.


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks, Makrell, Kaiser Leonidas, Iskar, Neadal, Sheridan, Bercor and HigoChumbo, house of Siblesz

    Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    Mithlond, maybe.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    Quote Originally Posted by Aikanár View Post
    Timber wall is actually the equivalent to huge stone wall.
    Yes. Technically.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    I've played the elves for a bit now and I feel the elvish bodyguard is too large/powerful, especially as it picks up the experience points.
    The main challenge of the elvish campaign seems to be population management but you can just chuck the bodyguard into half a stack and always come about as victor with a free replenishments in the following turns.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Feedback: Elves

    How many turns into a campaign are you, may I ask?

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