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Thread: Feedback: Dorwinion

  1. #41
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    Look up Hyarmendacil I and Gondor's borders during his reign. Also the extent of the Reunited Kingdom under Aragorn as described in the LotR appendices.

  2. #42

    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    I had forgotten that. This whole "Sea of Rhûn" clings to my mind now although that did still not neccessarily give them a border by Dorwinion and it would be more logical to give Rhovanion acess to some Dúnedanic influence.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    When the economy gets bad after a while you can sneak away Narag Zigil from the dwarves. I was besieging them with lots of skirmishers (mostly slingers). After 10 rounds they sallied out following my units. You only need a spare one to move a tower and capture the gates. Durin's guard locked out of it's city... Maybe not the most heroic way, but the ends justify the means and in this case the gold of the dwarves solved all my problems. It's 398, i'm holding my 2 starting provinces, the island and the dwarven city and have 100k in my coffers shortly after that conquest. Before that my profit was at about 1.5k and went negative when Belegand was besieged.

    Besides that having played Dorwinion for quite some hours now and Belegand built up to the maximum level i still think they deserve a little more development possibilities. Unit wise they are fine, but i believe they and also Rhovanion would deserve a few of the inventions that Dale has. After all they are not that far culturally and geographically and will always end up trading or fighting with each other. A Dorwinion trader who sees all those watermills travelling through Dale lands would for sure tell his mates back home in some Belegand winebar. Assuming that some of those guys would be fairly rich and taken the fact into account that Dorwinion also gets Dale family members it might be reasonable then that some of them would hire Dale inventors (some of whom might be living in Dorwinion anyway). I don't think they should get all of them, but the heavy plough and watermill line would be useful to survive the easterling hordes and the longboat workshop option would make sense too. I guess it wouldn't be rocket science to come up with somewhat bigger boats yourself when you see them arriving in your town with finest goods from Dale and Erebor all the time.

  4. #44
    Thangaror's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    I'd say, while all these assumptions are ok, this will be something to do for the community.
    Though actually the first thing I'd do, is to give them an upgraded version of the Axemen.

    Anyway, even the Hobbits knew of the Watermill. I haven't played Dale thoroughly, yet, so I'm not so sure how much sense their inventor's workshop makes.

    Also, one of my major problems as Dorwinion is the lack of family members. I have five provinces and four FMs, one serving as general.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    Quote Originally Posted by caspoi View Post
    I had forgotten that. This whole "Sea of Rhûn" clings to my mind now although that did still not neccessarily give them a border by Dorwinion and it would be more logical to give Rhovanion acess to some Dúnedanic influence.
    Yeah, but OTOH you don't need to share a border to exchange ideas. History has shown that it may only take a relatively safe trade route for that, and Dorwinion, being a trade hub and an important agricultural centre, might have benefitted more than Rhovanion.

  6. #46
    Thangaror's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    Quote Originally Posted by webba84 View Post
    It may well have provided the most superior protection of the body parts it covered
    You're right of course. I misunderstood your above statement.
    To apply this to the Dorwinion BG they actually don't have that high an armour stat, given how much coverage they get because the material is inferior to Dunedainic or Dwarven steel, it is considered very heavy so they tire quickly, and they are one of the slowest units on the field, both to move and to attack. Whatever the case may be with real world examples, their armour offers both less protection than more advance factions, and comes with more drawbacks.
    Actually, the Halberdiers have astonishing stamina! They also move quite fast, and even considering I don't sent them into the fighting immediately, they tend to outrun most other units when hunting down the fleeing enemy.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    But Rhovanion has been a historical ally of the Dúnedain, sharing their borders much longer and closely than Dorwinion and every now and then marrying into the royal line (which some nationalistic gondorians apparantly did not like.

  8. #48
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Thangaror View Post
    Actually, the Halberdiers have astonishing stamina! They also move quite fast, and even considering I don't sent them into the fighting immediately, they tend to outrun most other units when hunting down the fleeing enemy.
    Hmmm, this might need looking at. The weight of their armour is supposed to be causing clear downsides.

    Quote Originally Posted by caspoi View Post
    But Rhovanion has been a historical ally of the Dúnedain, sharing their borders much longer and closely than Dorwinion and every now and then marrying into the royal line (which some nationalistic gondorians apparantly did not like.
    Rhovanion was also completely destroyed, its people becoming either part of Gondor, Dale or the Eorlings. As I have said before the fourth age Rhovanion is not the same kingdom as the earlier one, and they don't particularly like the Dunedain (The RK because they feel abandoned by them after recent 4th age easterling attacks, and Adunabar because they are crazy cultists who want to rule the world).

    We arent adding new units or building to any factions in the mod, we like what they have now (including the limitations). We have to leave something for submods to do, after all .
    Last edited by webba84; January 24, 2015 at 05:43 PM.

  9. #49
    MasterOfNone's Avatar RTW Modder 2004-2015
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    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    Dorwinion Nobles possess neither the hardy nor very_hardy attribute and have a heat stat of 5 ...
    "One of the most sophisticated Total War mods ever developed..."
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  10. #50
    Thangaror's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    I'll keep an eye on them during my campaign, but I'm fairly certain they outrun Dorwinion Watch and DoMaA.

    But apart from that, the hat_stat shouldn't be that important in Dorwinion, Dale and Rhûn AFAIK.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aradan View Post
    Code:
    stat_heat        heat_penalty
    Fatigue penalties applied to the unit due to heat. It measures how fast will its fatigue be depleted and how slowly it will regenerate. Ranges from -2 to 5, with 5 issuing the greatest penalty for the unit. The hotter the climate (aka the greater the climate_heat value of the map), where the battle takes place, the more important it becomes. In mild climates (low climate_heat of the map), it makes little to no difference.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

  11. #51
    MasterOfNone's Avatar RTW Modder 2004-2015
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    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    Sure, the skeleton may be at fault. I think it uses a custom skeleton and they are often not balanced (which is why we don't just use skeletons from other mods willy nilly). This is something Aradan could answer better.
    "One of the most sophisticated Total War mods ever developed..."
    The Fourth Age: Total War - The Dominion of Men

  12. #52

    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    Well, I have to admitt that Dorwinion campaign has pulled me in like no other for a long time! Not even my RK can compare to this! From the very beginning I had to watch my borders and beat off attacks from Dale and North Rhun. Gaurgaul is impossible to hold so I just let it be and watched Dale and North Rhun taking and loosing it in turns First I took Hithe province on an island in sea of Rhun and then continued eastward and northward.

    Belegont seems to be a little depopulated, cant get the population up too much. In fact the whole east seems to be empty, I mean North Rhun is throwing full stacks at me, but when I conquer their province it is at the basic level of population. I noticed this in my previous campaigns too, is it intentional? I mean even though I have like 3% or more pop growth, there is almost no available population. I get it with elves (they are leaving) dunedains(civil war and slow pop growth) but in the east? Is it not supposed to be more crowded? It seems like whole Middle-earth dying out, at least if taken from players controlled faction point of view. AI factions allways have no problem with mustering full stacks all over the map.

    I managed to secure all provinces around sea of Rhun, except the one with dwarves. Dale, Rohan and Tharbad are major factions, but Harad is superpower! They were able to simultaneously destroy Adunabar in Mordor, my Allies Rhun in the East nad RK in Gondor. Now they are marching on Edoras, Anfalas and are even besieging Lathron! They were in practically in the same position in all my previous campaigns. Nobody seems to be able to stop them.

    Currently, I am at war with Dale and North Rhun(only 1 province left), economy works very well and I plan to besiege my dwarven neighbours. I fear only sharing border with Harad. They are besieging last Rhun province and then we will be neighbours. If they declare war on me it is over Thx you guys again for such an excellent mod!

    BTW. Dorwinion flag symbol looks like hussite chalice, I guess it is just a coincidence right?

  13. #53

    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigontas View Post
    BTW. Dorwinion flag symbol looks like hussite chalice, I guess it is just a coincidence right?
    It probably has to do with its famous wine.

  14. #54
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    Population growth is very much dependent on having your own Dominion building constructed. When you conquer another region the population growth drops massively until you do this.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigontas View Post
    BTW. Dorwinion flag symbol looks like hussite chalice, I guess it is just a coincidence right?
    lol. Would make an excellent argument though for Dorwinion having access to crossbowmen and War Wains...

  16. #56
    Thangaror's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    I noticed that generals get the wounded trait very, very often. My King has been wounded in battle about five times already. Last time it happens, not a single man got kiled, because the enemy fled the field.

    Maybe I'm just having bad luck, but it's like my general is wounded in every second battle. They usually do heal quickly though in a settlement.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Thangaror View Post
    I noticed that generals get the wounded trait very, very often. My King has been wounded in battle about five times already. Last time it happens, not a single man got kiled, because the enemy fled the field.

    Maybe I'm just having bad luck, but it's like my general is wounded in every second battle. They usually do heal quickly though in a settlement.
    I have this in all my Mannish games, even when the general is not involved in combat but if he is you can guaruntee that he will pick up a wound, I think one of the problems
    with it is if you don't check your general after the battle and let him rest in a settlement he ends up maimed for life which makes him pretty useless as a field commander.
    The only time I seen it with elves/dwarf was when I autoresolved the battle.

  18. #58

    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    Quote Originally Posted by webba84 View Post
    The Dorwinion plate armour isn't advanced, its rather crude and much less effective than what Dale or the RK makes (like a classical muscle cuirass compared to mail or lamellar), much less Dwarven stuff.

    Why do people assume all plate armour is advanced? The design is hardly Gothic.
    Would make sense game and lore wise to allow players to invest in buying and training better smiths as a unique project like opening Moria's west gate for the Dwarves?

    Something like paying an absurd cost to hire outside smiths to improve local methods.

    This may be a bad idea, but I'd like the possibility of advancing Halberdiers to match major factions at great cost.

  19. #59

    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    If so it should require you to own Dale or something like that.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Feedback: Dorwinion

    Quote Originally Posted by caspoi View Post
    If so it should require you to own Dale or something like that.
    I could see that - requiring the player to own certain territory to upgrade.

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