The Dominion of Men Open Beta General Feedback Thread

[webba84]

We feel that such detailed information on the unit cards detracts a bit from the fantasy and mythic quality of things and pushes it a bit too much into historical military simulation territory.

There is a consistency (an almost OCD level of consistency, really) to the unit descriptions, if you read them carefully and observe the units in battle you can glean more than enough information.

[MasterOfNone]

For the stout of heart we could release Eddy into the final version...

[webba84]

Excel fans everywhere rejoice!

[Stark1]

I was wondering, whether maybe a suggestions thread should be opened to post ideas that are not really feedback or specifically related to the factions.

Anyway, it'd be nice to add information to the unit cards, how much ammunition they carry along and what the range of their weapons is.

I would have a suggestion - perhaps traits for sea captains could be removed? I guess it's usefull to you as means to boost AI fleets, but it's pretty annoying when you can't merge you fleets. I even think Aradan once (a long, long time ago ) said they would be removed.

[Thangaror]

Spies are the worst! The spies I train usually have zero subterfuge, it's an outrage.
Being that 'skilled' they are even unable to get a glance of an army they're standing right next to.

[CountMRVHS]

I believe the plan is to finish up trait/anc related things soonish - that said, I also think we're also going to be rather selective about what we implement trait-wise, in the interest of time. We haven't had a discussion about the ship captain anc for awhile, but it may be that it's something in the works.

Sorry to not be able to give a more definitive response, but my understanding is that the traits are fairly solidly in Aradan's court.

As for spies, some factions will get bonuses. Elven spies, for example, are going to start with some talent just by virtue of being Elves. And Harad has some SBs that grant its spies bonuses. For the rest, I think spies work basically as vanilla, and I'm not certain how the game figures out whether to initialize a spy with 0 subterfuge or higher.

[webba84]

I have to say, I very rarely (can't remember even once, actually) see spies or assassins improve through successful attempts. We may want to make a note to at least check that their traits are working properly.

[insolent1]

I would have a suggestion - perhaps traits for sea captains could be removed? I guess it's usefull to you as means to boost AI fleets, but it's pretty annoying when you can't merge you fleets.

There is a partial workaround,

Each time you are about to produce a ship, move your fleet into the port where the ship is being produced.
The ship will join the stack without it becoming a commander.

[Stark1]

There is a partial workaround,

Each time you are about to produce a ship, move your fleet into the port where the ship is being produced.
The ship will join the stack without it becoming a commander.

I know, I do that. But it isn't exactly an elegant solution. As RK you get three fleets at start, and once you combine what you can into one fleet (which you must do since AI is much stronger ship for ship) you're left with two former flagships which are mostly useless.

And since you need to keep your fleet in one piece to have a chance against Corsairs, building it up is a real slow task when you need to build everything in one port.

Also, if you want to use that fleet, you either need to stop construction or make a new fleet, which you then need to build up considerably unless you want it to be a deathtrap the moment it leaves port.

Of course, it's all manageable, but pretty annoying. Unless having captains is vital for beefing up AI fleets I see no pro for this solution and many cons.

P.S. Please don't take this as criticism, mod is amazing and I love you all for giving it to us

[CountMRVHS]

I *think* the captains are more for giving extra movement points to fleets, which otherwise might be unrealistically slow to travel on the campaign map.

[Thangaror]

As for spies, some factions will get bonuses. Elven spies, for example, are going to start with some talent just by virtue of being Elves. And Harad has some SBs that grant its spies bonuses. For the rest, I think spies work basically as vanilla, and I'm not certain how the game figures out whether to initialize a spy with 0 subterfuge or higher.

In vanilla agents are usually traint with one or two, and in rare cases even three points in subterfuge or influence. In DoM they generally start with zero points and they never improve.

[MasterOfNone]

Please remember that traits are not yet finalized. Our system, as I understand it, aims to create a layer of poor-to-good agents depending on where they are recruited from (and other factors).

[Wambat]

What I did playing the Reunited Kingdom in TNS was to have captains sort of daisy-chain. One would be in port when a ship was finished and then send the new ship to the second captain who would "carry" the new ship to my front line captain. That same intermediary captain would carry back under-strength ships for retraining. This was easier in TNS because you generally had just one sea front after you had secured the western seas, and you had the ports on Gondor's coast to protect the ships being communicated between production and the front.

What I will say I found unexpected in the new mod is how irrelevant naval dominance seems to be. Maybe because I have not played a naval power yet. It seems that all the most efficient routes of travel are over land, making a strong fleet a redundant liability in most cases. I feel like ships need a significant boost in movement points to make them competitive with land routes, but also that doing so might make control of the sea too difficult. Then again, control of the sea should be difficult.

One last thing: I neglected to experiment with this when testing the Elves. I only transported Glorfindel, spies; excuse me, "scouts"; and emissaries on ships. Have we done away here with the "Elves can't get on ships" thing from TNS? Is it only being applied to Wood-Elves? It struck me as odd to have a Mariner combat unit made up of Elves, when the Elves only purpose in sea travel seemed to be returning to Valinor. I would have expected, A, that at least Wood-Elves, if they boarded a ship, or set foot on a port; I don't know if either are possible triggers; would come down with a longing for the sea which would be equivalent to a terminal illness. and, B, that it would be the Elvellyn who take up the building of large ships of war, and training as Mariners.

Explanations are present for much of this in the texts, of course, but I still don't see why the Elvellyn cannot be more competent in fielding fleets. After all, since all sea battles are auto-resolved, the last thing the player wants to do is send his Elves into sea battles, no matter how powerful their ships are.

[Wambat]

In vanilla agents are usually traint with one or two, and in rare cases even three points in subterfuge or influence. In DoM they generally start with zero points and they never improve.

I can attest that both spies and emissaries do improve with missions, and possibly over time, on this mod, but there are no notifications for these events in this mod so they can be easily missed. It is also not easy to find missions that zeroth level spies can do. I recommend trying to leave an Independent stack unmolested somewhere convenient to practice your spies on. I have yet to use assassins in this mod, but I expect the same applies to them.

[insolent1]

Agents are working fine for me, they come with skill and gain it through missions.

[Stark1]

What I did playing the Reunited Kingdom in TNS was to have captains sort of daisy-chain. One would be in port when a ship was finished and then send the new ship to the second captain who would "carry" the new ship to my front line captain. That same intermediary captain would carry back under-strength ships for retraining. This was easier in TNS because you generally had just one sea front after you had secured the western seas, and you had the ports on Gondor's coast to protect the ships being communicated between production and the front.

What I will say I found unexpected in the new mod is how irrelevant naval dominance seems to be. Maybe because I have not played a naval power yet. It seems that all the most efficient routes of travel are over land, making a strong fleet a redundant liability in most cases. I feel like ships need a significant boost in movement points to make them competitive with land routes, but also that doing so might make control of the sea too difficult. Then again, control of the sea should be difficult.

As RK sea control is vital. Haradrim blockades are killing you economy and they keep invading Dol Amroth. Ignore them for a few turns and they'll land a full stack (over several turns).

[Thangaror]

Can you do something about the crazy amount of wealth those Halflings collect? It's insane and also it makes it impossible to figure out how well the other factions are doing. There's a similar issue with Dwarves and Elves, but it's not as bad.

[webba84]

Weirdly enough, we cant (yet, AFAIK). Aradan has tried just about everything including massive unit upkeep but the game seems to keep giving them tons of money for some unfathomable reason. Its very strange.

[Stark1]

Weirdly enough, we cant (yet, AFAIK). Aradan has tried just about everything including massive unit upkeep but the game seems to keep giving them tons of money for some unfathomable reason. Its very strange.

Weird. Are they SPQR by any chance?

[Thangaror]

It's BI, there shouldn't be SPQR.
How about adding a hobbit-specific building that gives a a huge tax and trade penalty? Call it "The voracious appetite of Hobbits".