Guys, there's no point in arguing whether the journalist conducted herself properly, regardless of asking proper questions, since it's pointless and difficult to prove and beyond that can't be proven to others who share similar attitudes and have done so for years.
Well, yes, although the vid was posted to show Varouphakis' good speaking/sanity-intelligence qualities Not interested in the negatives myself..
While that's true, the questions were valid while his answers were not satisfactory. Sure, the journalist should have shown more patience for him to finish, but he's also talking too long to make his point. He should be short in his speech, we're not his students in an academic lecture. His annoying pompous tone, where he makes everything too colorful grates on my nerves.
I think they only 20 seconds I could listen to him without getting annoyed were when insulted Daiselbloom. And that's not because I agree with his views, but just for the hilarious shock in the face of Daiselbloom. Yes, Baroufakis has balls but since he's a minister keen to insult guests I would say he shouldn't expect better from journalists.
alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
"Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
_______________________________________________________
Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).
In theory, nothing is preventing them from doing the exact same thing. In practice, if they are to compete in a beggar-thy-neighbour contest against Germany, they will have to implement such extreme wage reduction to make up for the lost ground in unit labour cost (and capital accumulation by waning industries) in the last decade and a half that it will be extremely unpopular. Besides, there can only be one winner in this type of game, so if either of them were to come out on top, then Germany would simply take their place, but from the perspective of Eurozone as a system instability wouldn't have been adressed. The only way to do that is by introducing some type of mechanism or automatic stabilisers that will recycle current account surpluses within the Eurozone on a large scale, but this is politically unacceptable because there is no grassroots federalist sentiment strong enough to overcome national affiliations. So instead of enforcing harsh measures upon their populace in a race towards sinicisation, France and Italy will at some point simply opt for reverting back to their respective national currencies, let inflation eat their debt away and a floating exchange rate take care of the current account balances.
Last edited by Timoleon of Korinthos; February 01, 2015 at 09:08 AM.
"Blessed is he who learns how to engage in inquiry, with no impulse to hurt his countrymen or to pursue wrongful actions, but perceives the order of the immortal and ageless nature, how it is structured."
Euripides
"This is the disease of curiosity. It is this which drives to try and discover the secrets of nature, those secrets which are beyond our understanding, which avails us nothing and which man should not wish to learn."
Augustine
I do mean that and I consider telling the leader of the finance ministers of Europe that the Troika committee, which have been talking with them for years, is a rottenly constructed committee an insult, because more or less you call him a pawn and an idiot. Yes, the Austerity program didn't work and SYRIZA doesn't plan to talk with the Troika but with the organizations behind the troika directly. There are less insulting ways to say that.
But still, I would high-five Varoufakis when he said that, despite the fact that it was insulting to Daiseblum. Daiseblum's expression of "ehh... I think I don't have anything to earn here, the days the Greek ministers were considering me their superior are over" was priceless.
alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
"Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
_______________________________________________________
Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).
Why, isn't it a rottently constructed committee? But even if there are better ways of saying the truth, more diplomatic if you wish, why was it an insult to Dijsselbloem? Is he that troika? No, he is the eurogroup head. Varoufakis didn't say he doesn't want to negotiate with the eurogroup, in fact he said the opposite, its the troika he doesn't want to negotiate with, so why exactly was Dijsselbloem insulted?
Last edited by Alastor; February 01, 2015 at 09:39 AM.
Not at all as I have stated and you seem to pass by.
If she wasn't interrupting him then he would have sounded more coherent actually.When you ask the proper and difficult questions you should at least let him finish his argument. Asking several times about Germany wasn't helping at all towards this.
As for Dijeselbleum , Varoufakis wasn't insulting him actually. He was referring to troika and how this government is not going to negotiate with some low grade officials with no democratic check. We are a sovereign country yet not a corporation.
Quem faz injúria vil e sem razão,Com forças e poder em que está posto,Não vence; que a vitória verdadeira É saber ter justiça nua e inteira-He who, solely to oppress,Employs or martial force, or power, achieves No victory; but a true victory Is gained,when justice triumphs and prevails.
Luís de Camões
I'll reply later to the "Germany profited at the cost of everybody else through some obvious scheme"-complex later. Obviously that needs some longer argumentation, for which I don't have time right now. But:
So? Posting a few links without comment or atleast an attempt to sort them into the debate and put them in position concerning what has been said here is nothing but bad debating.
That is bad debating again, aiming solemly to discredit an opinion you won't make the effort to argue with. Using the third person makes it little more but disrespectful. Using catch phrases that have hardly been uttered here to discredit a side is even more hypocrite when what the argue against is happy to denounce them for their nationality or political stance. So as this is a debate that is open to all sorts of different people from all over whe world, let us resort to arguments please? I was under the impression that such was the aim of this forum.
Aside throwing another link in uncommented and linking it to that 1953 treaty again (I've argued before why that is a bad comparison, I won't need to repeat it): The idea of linking debt repayment to growth isn't bad or unfounded and something I can get behind as an unrealistic approach. It needs to be ensured though that achieving growth is still desirable for politicians. The way I'd understand it though is not a haircut but putting certain portions of the debt or their servicing on ice.
See above.
Original link, full article: The Guardian: Let Greece profit from German history
--------------Some Germans today insist that a debt is a debt, and that Greece must repay in full. They should know better from their own history, starting with Keynes’s unsuccessful plea to lower Germany’s reparations burden. They should recall the relief that Germany was granted through the Marshall plan, and the 1953 London agreement on German debts...As with Germany in 1953, the real issue is Greece’s need for debt relief, not whether it is deserved
TASS07
(I've argued before why that is a bad comparison, I won't need to repeat it):
Magister dixit? . No, its a fair comparison. Read above.
TASS07
Neptolemos will certainly do that, but I think he was annoyed with the tyranny of Greece over Germany. ( hint: Krugman's blog)So? Posting a few links without comment
------
From the news, without comments,
Stop Germany bashing, EU parliament chief warns TsiprasSchulz told Germany`s Welt am Sonntag newspaper that he had passed on the advice at talks last week with Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras...I emphatically recommended to him to verbally disarm. ..Tsipras is well advised to end his attacks on Angela Merkel.
Last edited by Ludicus; February 01, 2015 at 01:51 PM.
Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
Charles Péguy
Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
Thomas Piketty
As I've said before: the difference lies in the type of debt. Greece is in debt due to its own debt-taking an decades of overspending. The German debt in question above roots in the treaty of Versaille, which has been sufficiently established as unfair among historians.
Oh and do not get picky on me. There is a difference between quoting specific parts of a what someone else said and just linking there.
Edit: Forgot to mention but that verbally disarming would benefit cooperation (which one way or the other is what everybody wants) goes without saying.
Edit2: I forgot (again) to admit that this would easily apply to all parties. There's enough politicians and so-called journalists (Bild *cough* *cough*) here in Germany too for example that add little but nonsense and agressive rethoric to the whole affair.
Last edited by TASS07; February 01, 2015 at 01:36 PM.
Hmm, "unfair" is a highly subjective valuation-- it failed to curtail Germany's resurgence,after the devastation in Europe at the end of the WW1.
What you failed to mention is that Greece is in debt due in part to German banks taking advantage of the Greek demand for cheap financing.Greece is in debt due to its own debt-taking an decades of overspending
Germany or Tsipras? Well, Tsipras said, explicitly,Forgot to mention but that verbally disarming would benefit cooperation
Tsipras says he wants, sic "a viable,fair and mutually beneficial way out of the debt crisis". Indeed, why is he so" aggressive" with Germany?...Germany, and in particular the hard-working German workers, have nothing to fear from a SYRIZA victory. The opposite holds. Our task is not to confront our partners. It is not to secure larger loans or, equivalently, the right to higher deficits. Our target is, rather, the country's stabilization, balanced budgets and, of course, the end of the grand squeeze of the weaker Greek taxpayers in the context of a loan agreement that is simply unenforceable. We are committed to end 'extend and pretend' logic not against German citizens but with a view to the mutual advantages for all Europeans
Last edited by Ludicus; February 01, 2015 at 02:32 PM.
Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
Charles Péguy
Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
Thomas Piketty
Bad debating is to consider yourself more acredited in analysing the crisis and ask for measures while discredit, ignore or belittle the analysis and proposals of nobel laureates in economics.It's a vague remark as it is a universal truth that the expert knows more than a non-expert in the field of his expertise.Unfortunatelly it is something that has been happening almost constantly in these forums. If you feel affected by it well that's not my fault, I wasn't adressing you specifically and it has nothing to do with the irrelevant statements of yours about nationality or political stance.But please be my guest and feel free to point exactly where I did mention or implied somrthing like that.
On an unrelated note the people in Greece who have lived the pathologies of the system and the consequences of the crisis had a say in the recent elections and gave a clear message for a change.It is the first time that a Greek government is actually doing what was voted for which is a huge progress compared with the previous bend overs.
Another voice pointing towards debt burden relief:
http://www.thetoc.gr/eng/people/arti...more-austerityAlexis Tsipras will be adding Barack Obama's name to the growing list of people advocating an end to austerity as a solution for Greece's problems.
"‘You cannot keep on squeezing countries that are in the midst of depression," he told CNNs Fareed Zakaria. "At some point there needs to be a growth plan."
While he noted that there had been serious problems in Greece that needed to be addressed for the country to become competitive, he said that from the US's experience, "The best way to reduce fiscal deficits and restore fiscal soundness is to grow."
Obama said that he hoped that Greece would remain in the Eurozone and said that for that to happen compromises would have to be made 'on all sides.'
Last edited by neoptolemos; February 01, 2015 at 03:04 PM.
Quem faz injúria vil e sem razão,Com forças e poder em que está posto,Não vence; que a vitória verdadeira É saber ter justiça nua e inteira-He who, solely to oppress,Employs or martial force, or power, achieves No victory; but a true victory Is gained,when justice triumphs and prevails.
Luís de Camões
In some Italian newspapaer some evil mind posted the weird idea that the actual winner of the Greek elections has been Vladimir Putin!
Is there something true in this suspect about a strict perverted relation between Zar Putin and the new Byzantine ruler?
Greece's left and right are both Russophiles. The left because they've been standing up to America, the West, Capitalism, and because they were Soviet, and there's a willing blindness to the fact that Russia is a capitalist nationalist nation, and the right because of historical links, Orthodoxy, and even here I'd argue because they stood up to the West. Modern Greek Russophilia is almost entirely misplaced, yet Russia still looms in the minds of many as a great power, and I believe (some other more knowledgeable posters can help out) that Tsipras has had some noted sympathies with Russia and Moscow.
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.