Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + new elections

[StarDreamer]

It is high time austerity dies a much deserved death.

And don't think this NO is the last. Other euro countries will show the analogous stance now (Italy, Spain, Portugal, likely even France to some degree, etc). Time for some reason instead of trolling and stereotypes

Yes yes dead austerity. From where will Greece get the loans to run day-to-day government stuff and keep their banks open, or do you think Greece will survuve just fine without loans?

[Stavroforos]

Yes yes dead austerity. From where will Greece get the loans to run day-to-day government stuff and keep their banks open, or do you think Greece will survuve just fine without loans?

Unfortunately that's the delusion which drove the NO campaign.

[karo]

Are people actually thinking that this is going to be positive for Greece and the Greek people?
Greece needs to push forward reforms and those reforms better be long lasting because that is the only thing that is going to help Greece on the long term. No matter what the Euro group decides in the coming weeks if there are no real reforms in Greece then it is just a bandage on a very deep wound. To me it seems that neither the people living in Greece nor the Greek government want to implement any real reforms. They just want to point finger towards 'the outside enemies' and continue what they were doing without change.

[StarDreamer]

Unfortunately that's the delusion which drove the NO campaign.

Yeah, well I've been trying to get something constructive out of them, with my latest postings here. But unfotunately it seems to boil down to "Austerity evil: Vote no, austerity dead, everything ok now!"

[Kyriakos]

Are people actually thinking that this is going to be positive for Greece and the Greek people?
Greece needs to push forward reforms and those reforms better be long lasting because that is the only thing that is going to help Greece on the long term. No matter what the Euro group decides in the coming weeks if there are no real reforms in Greece then it is just a bandage on a very deep wound. To me it seems that neither the people living in Greece nor the Greek government want to implement any real reforms. They just want to point finger towards 'the outside enemies' and continue what they were doing without change.

We don't want to continue what we are doing. In 2010-2014 we had a near 30% drop in GDP. I mean we are now in Finlan levels, that is already an outrage to be like a country whose only resource is forest in the bit below the arctic circle

To joke -partly joke- a bit I am very happy that the result in the referendum is so massively clear. 62 vs 38 means this is not a 'Syriza is a bad gov, but we like the greek people' alibi- given anymore, so lets see if Germany even tries for a full out 'we don't want Greek people in the eurozone' and who will come out of that in the end. Either way, though, democracy indeed won tonight, and not just for us here

Ok, final post for tonight i suppose, so i'll try to make it memorable

The 62% of NO means that there is no more any joke-alibi that 'we are having issues with the greek government, not the actual greek people'. Germany is not in a position to attack a whole other people in the EU. TBH i think their parliament won't officially even legislate to try, cause that would be a suicide move by them.

Also more people in Italy-Spain-Portugal-France will present loudly calls for end to austerity. The rallies in the rest of the EU in the last few days, supporting Greece and the NO vote, were literally in the hundreds, including some very large ones such as the Brussels rally that had over 3 thousand people

*

And... couldn't resist, sorry :



'But from free european, to free european' ^^

[paleologos]

Ellada Liberta!

Good Morning Sun!

[Priscus]

I am very happy that the result in the referendum is so massively clear. 62 vs 38 means this is not a 'Syriza is a bad gov, but we like the greek people' alibi- given anymore, so lets see if Germany even tries for a full out 'we don't want Greek people in the eurozone' and who will come out of that in the end. Either way, though, democracy indeed won tonight, and not just for us here

Honest advice: Go out tonight and party like there´s no tomorrow...

[StarDreamer]

We don't want to continue what we are doing. In 2010-2014 we had a near 30% drop in GDP. I mean we are now in Finlan levels, that is already an outrage to be like a country whose only resource is forest in the bit below the arctic circle

To joke -partly joke- a bit I am very happy that the result in the referendum is so massively clear. 62 vs 38 means this is not a 'Syriza is a bad gov, but we like the greek people' alibi- given anymore, so lets see if Germany even tries for a full out 'we don't want Greek people in the eurozone' and who will come out of that in the end. Either way, though, democracy indeed won tonight, and not just for us here

Well from the numbers I found for 2013 at that point Greece was already at parity with Finland in GDP(50% in gdp per capita), so if we assume Finland didn't grow or shrink too much in 2010-2013 a 30% drop from 2010-2014 would have meant Greece's per capita gdp was worse than Finland's in 2010. So that fall must have been some years before that. And don't mock our forests, atleast we don't just rely on beaches for our income.

[Kyriakos]

Well from the numbers I found for 2013 at that point Greece was already at parity with Finland in GDP(50% in gdp per capita), so if we assume Finland didn't grow or shrink too much in 2010-2013 a 30% drop from 2010-2014 would have meant Greece's per capita gdp was worse than Finland's in 2010. So that fall must have been some years before that. And don't mock our forests, atleast we don't just rely on beaches for our income.

Well help us to not rely on them that much as well We would do back the favour, that much is certain

[fkizz]

Why are some users upset that Democratic vote Happened?

In Democracy you're suposed to accept ideas and decisions from things you don't like, not just the ones that please you. And that happens in Capitalistic Democracies aswell.

[Timoleon of Korinthos]

62 vs 38 means this is not a 'Syriza is a bad gov, but we like the greek people' alibi- given anymore, so lets see if Germany even tries for a full out 'we don't want Greek people in the eurozone' and who will come out of that in the end.

Germany won't give a single cent to a government that everybody who's somebody in european politics considers unreliable. On the contrary, Schäuble's faction will be given a quiverful of ammunition to push for a Grexit. Even if the the markets crash, which given the developments of last week I find highly unlikely, Germany will wait for months until the current Greek government collapses under the weight of the distingerating economy, the bail-in, the plummeting tax revenue and the cessation of imports of foodstuff, before they negotiate a new package of financial assistance.

Why are some users upset that Democratic vote Happened?

Because democracy is not impervious to stupidity. The last great national disaster that befell Greece was induced by a decision expressed through perfectly democratic elections and sealed by a referendum, on the aftermath of which the people were also celebrating the fact that they exercised their independence and sovereignty.

[Ludicus]

Honest advice: Go out tonight and party like there´s no tomorrow...

Medical advice:swallow an antacid.

---------
Sigmar Gabriel, the final blackmail,

With the rejection of the rules of the euro zone ...negotiations about a programme worth billions are barely conceivable
Tsipras and his government are leading the Greek people on a path of bitter abandonment and hopelessness.

Where is Morgenthau when we need him?

[karo]

We don't want to continue what we are doing. In 2010-2014 we had a near 30% drop in GDP. I mean we are now in Finlan levels, that is already an outrage to be like a country whose only resource is forest in the bit below the arctic circle

To joke -partly joke- a bit I am very happy that the result in the referendum is so massively clear. 62 vs 38 means this is not a 'Syriza is a bad gov, but we like the greek people' alibi- given anymore, so lets see if Germany even tries for a full out 'we don't want Greek people in the eurozone' and who will come out of that in the end. Either way, though, democracy indeed won tonight, and not just for us here

Ok, final post for tonight i suppose, so i'll try to make it memorable

The 62% of NO means that there is no more any joke-alibi that 'we are having issues with the greek government, not the actual greek people'. Germany is not in a position to attack a whole other people in the EU. TBH i think their parliament won't officially even legislate to try, cause that would be a suicide move by them.

Also more people in Italy-Spain-Portugal-France will present loudly calls for end to austerity. The rallies in the rest of the EU in the last few days, supporting Greece and the NO vote, were literally in the hundreds, including some very large ones such as the Brussels rally that had over 3 thousand people

*

And... couldn't resist, sorry :



'But from free european, to free european' ^^

Ok we end the austerity tomorrow then what? What are the plans of the Greek government and the Greek people? Is there a long term plan that they have? Because from where I am standing right now there is nothing coming out of Greece. The only thing that I am hearing from Greece and the Greek government is to blame everything on austerity and the bad wolf aka the EU.

When will the Greek government come with a clear plan on how to move forward. The problems that Greece is facing are fundamental and have very little to do with austerity or no austerity. The Greek economy needs to be reformed but the current government doesn't have a plan, this can be seen by the hiring back government workers who were let go just a year ago. Does the Greek state need all those people to be efficient?

Why aren't the Greek people demanding reforms? Because anything else would be useless.

[Camlon]

Congrats to the no side, hope the people who voted no realize what it means.

Why does Varoufakis assume he will get a deal in 24 hours? Doesn't he know how stupid that sound like, most likely he won't get a deal at all.

[Kyriakos]

Germany won't give a single cent to a government that everybody who's somebody in european politics considers unreliable. On the contrary, Schäuble's faction will be given a quiverful of ammunition to push for a Grexit. Even if the the markets crash, which given the developments of last week I find highly unlikely, Germany will wait for months until the current Greek government collapses under the weight of the distingerating economy, the bail-in, the plummeting tax revenue and the cessation of imports of foodstuff, before they negotiate a new package of financial assistance.

Shauble is not representing even half of german voters, who in turn are a small minority of europeans. His personal vendetta means absolutely nothing and it is high time this ludicrous misanthrope just steps over to the dustbin of euro history. He is a figure of division and ridiculousness, and a dwarf in regards to the European Union itself. Goodbye herr Shauble

French newspaper Liberation's cover now: (the No of Zeus, etc)





http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/en-di...ain-matin.html

[karo]

Germany won't give a single cent to a government that everybody who's somebody in european politics considers unreliable. On the contrary, Schäuble's faction will be given a quiverful of ammunition to push for a Grexit. Even if the the markets crash, which given the developments of last week I find highly unlikely, Germany will wait for months until the current Greek government collapses under the weight of the distingerating economy, the bail-in, the plummeting tax revenue and the cessation of imports of foodstuff, before they negotiate a new package of financial assistance.

That is something I never got, why would markets crash? With Greece leaving it would mean that the EU has just dumped a weak part and it is stronger than ever. If it was Brexit then it would be a very different story. Greece exiting the EU would have almost no effect on the markets in the EU because most people are expecting it and are ready for it.

[fkizz]

Because democracy is not impervious to stupidity.

Lets be honest, no system ever Humanity created was stupidity-proof. Can you name a single sistem that was impervious to stupidity?

[karo]

Shauble is not representing even half of german voters, who in turn are a small minority of europeans. His personal vendetta means absolutely nothing and it is high time this ludicrous misanthrope just steps over to the dustbin of euro history. He is a figure of division and ridiculousness, and a dwarf in regards to the European Union itself. Goodbye herr Shauble

French newspaper Liberation's cover now: (the No of Zeus, etc)

It is not the EU saving Greece but the Euro Group, which is represented by the national governments. So herr S has a lot to say there especially if he has a large part of the CDU supporting him. Right now the Greek government has zero credibility in Brussels and with the other members of the Euro group, you can think the clown that is the finance minister of Greece. Especially there action in the last couple of days where they blundered and ed up so much it seemed like Greece is being ruled by a bunch of kids.

[Cope]

In the short term, I'm pleased for Greece because they have done the right thing here for a number of a reasons:

1. They've demonstrated that some issues (in this case democratic will) trumps the economy.
2. They've demonstrated to the Eurozone that they, as an independent peoples, will not be cow towed by the threats of the European elites.
3. They've highlighted some of the major inefficiencies within the European framework and exposed how the ideological greed of many Europhiles can be a recipe for disaster.
4. They've spared themselves major humiliation and an externally imposed and counter productive austerity programme.
5. They've demonstrated to the rest of Europe that with some bravery, they can show two fingers to the bureaucrats of Brussels and Frankfurt.

At this point we have no idea how things will progress, though it is worth noting that the Eurozone wants Greece to remain within the single-currency as much as the Greeks want money from the ECB.

[Timoleon of Korinthos]

That is something I never got, why would markets crash? With Greece leaving it would mean that the EU has just dumped a weak part and it is stronger than ever. If it was Brexit then it would be a very different story. Greece exiting the EU would have almost no effect on the markets in the EU because most people are expecting it and are ready for it.

It is just a perception partly rooted in wishful thinking, partly in ignorance about the reality of international finance markets and partly in desperation, because the country has no other negotiating cards.

Lets be honest, no system ever Humanity created was stupidity-proof. Can you name a single sistem that was impervious to stupidity?

I am not belittling democracy. I explaining the rationale behind the concern of the "voters who are upset about the fact that democratic vote happened". It's because this specific vote is a vote that leads Greece to an economic catastrophe.

Shauble is not representing even half of german voters, who in turn are a small minority of europeans. His personal vendetta means absolutely nothing and it is high time this ludicrous misanthrope just steps over to the dustbin of euro history. He is a figure of division and ridiculousness, and a dwarf in regards to the European Union itself. Goodbye herr Shauble

French newspaper Liberation's cover now: (the No of Zeus, etc)





http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/en-di...ain-matin.html

Yes, and then Varoufakis beat Merkel and ended austerity. No wait, that was from another meme. In truth, Schäuble's popularity ratings exceed 70%, he's more popular in Germany than Merkel herself, and he represents not just the most powerful economy in Europe but a paneuropean economic-political bloc that perceives Greece as gangrene of the euro-area, which will be strengthened and can only transform into a fully-fledged economic union by letting the dead burden go.