Thread: Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + new elections

  1. #3881
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    So... Baroufakis will not comment on whether the people that say this will be a referendum on the Euro are right. Then puts up a smoke screen of why it's not legal. No word on whether he believes it is exactly that (Yes or No to Euro), legal or not.

    And does anyone know if I can use paypal during capital controls to pay for stuff? Even if it counts towards the 60 Euro limit, it will be fine.
    Last edited by Aikanár; June 30, 2015 at 01:38 PM. Reason: consecutive postings; please use the "edit post" button.
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  2. #3882

    Default Re: Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    And does anyone know if I can use paypal during capital controls to pay for stuff? Even if it counts towards the 60 Euro limit, it will be fine.
    Greek banking sources tell me that the banks have been instructed to close for at least a week and a day.

    And during that period of closure the following capital controls will be imposed:

    a) a maximum of 60 euros can be withdrawn per bank card per day or per account per day;
    b) no cash can be moved abroad at all, except for vital commercial transactions that would have to be pre-approved.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-33306158

    Paypal may be restricted due to b).

  3. #3883

    Default Re: Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + Referendum

    I honestly think you guys are ed.

  4. #3884

    Default Re: Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    I honestly think you guys are ed.
    We are, either way.

    Alhoon, there will be an analytic anouncement at any moment regarding the banks for tomorrow.
    ...ὣς οἵ γ᾽ ἀμφίεπον τάφον Ἕκτορος ἱπποδάμοιο.

  5. #3885

    Default Re: Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrasymachus View Post
    We are, either way.
    You are a lot more ed now, than you would have been if you agreed to the bailout. It is fine to choose the Grexit option if it is intentional, but grexident will lead to a catastrophe. Here is something to thing about.

    1. Capital controls won't be enough. Most ATMs are going to remain closed, and the ones open will have long lines.
    2. As people can't take out money, then many companies will refuse card payments, and be cash only.
    3. As the economy go for cash only, then tax collection will collapse, and Syriza will struggle to pay for pension and salaries.
    4. Since companies will struggle to operate in this climate, then many businesses will collapse, and unemployment will increase.

    The austerity is coming no matter what you choose, but the economy didn't have to get destroyed in this manner.
    Last edited by Camlon; June 28, 2015 at 06:34 PM.

  6. #3886
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + Referendum

    Capital controls will be enough though...
    But yes companies will struggle and recession will return. People will soon learn that by causing the rich to actually struggle, those evil 0.1%, you also create tens of thousands unemployed amd crush your GDP.

    In a few months, when the "leftwings" will realize that they can't buy new iphones to take selfies of themselves protesting austerity, that they can't afford vacations, that they can't visit their favorite bar every weekend to open a vodka bottle and do shots etc, they will realize that they were fighting for a system they didn't really want. By then, we will all be paying their stupidity.


    My grandfather, the communist one, knew the price of left and was willing to shoulder it. He considered air-conditioning, luxuries etc distractions one should be able to sacrifice for the common good (according to him).
    I doubt the majority of our millenial protesters are willing to actually lose their nice way of life over ideals like equality, less class divide etc.
    Last edited by alhoon; June 28, 2015 at 06:43 PM.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  7. #3887

    Default Re: Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Capital controls will be enough though...
    Eventually it will, but my prediction is that right now it won't. I think a lot of the ATMs that are empty, will not be refilled.

    Lines will create an additional control to prevent capital outflows. If it takes you 1 hour to take out 60 euro, then you might not bother to do it everyday.

  8. #3888
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + Referendum

    For the first few days sure. But every sane Greek knew that was a possibility and had stocked his or her house with food to pass a couple of weeks.

    Businesses won't collapse within a few days and the tax system, while it will suffer, it will suffer for a few days. Then banks will open.


    And still businesses will collapse eventually since a lot of stuff we buy from abroad will have restrictions and you'll have to bribe the local bank accountant to do everyday business, else your "business expense" will not pass, or will not pass in time. So, many businesses from abroad will deny to work in an environment that they are required to bribe in order to be able to sell their stuff.
    Last edited by alhoon; June 28, 2015 at 06:49 PM.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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  9. #3889

    Default Re: Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    You are a lot more ed now, than you would have been if you agreed to the bailout.

    1. Capital controls won't be enough. Many ATMs are going to be closed, and the ones open will have long lines.
    2. As people can't take out money, then companies will refuse bank payments, and be cash only.
    3. As the economy go for cash only, then tax collection will collapse, and Syriza will struggle to pay for pension and salaries.
    4. Since companies will struggle to operate in this climate, then many businesses will collapse, and unemployment will increase.

    The austerity is coming no matter what you choose, but the economy didn't have to get destroyed in this manner.
    The ATMs are already closed.

    The bailout will not bring growth, it has no future, it is just a slower death. The economy is in a coma for the last years.

    We are living in historical and difficult times indeed, but with solidarity and determination we will overcome this. We, as a people, have survived much worse situations. Our grandparents went to war against the fascists and the nazis with songs and smiles, we will not turn over and die because of some suits. We will learn to help each other once again.
    Last edited by Thrasymachus; June 28, 2015 at 06:49 PM.
    ...ὣς οἵ γ᾽ ἀμφίεπον τάφον Ἕκτορος ἱπποδάμοιο.

  10. #3890
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrasymachus View Post
    We are living in historical and difficult times indeed, but with solidarity and determination we will overcome this. We, as a people, have survived much worse situations. Our grandparents went to war against the fascists and the nazis with songs and smiles, we will not turn over and die because of some suits. We will learn to help each other once again.
    With the difference being, we never really knew to help each other. We loved to kill each other when the country was at crossroads. 1822, National divide in 1915 (didn't escalate because Great Powers stopped us), 1946...

    OF course we will survive, we always do. And then it will be 20+ years as we try to bring justice to the Greeks that abused the situation for their gain. Kotzabasides in 1822, Royalists in 1915, both Communists and Rightwings in 1946
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  11. #3891

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    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    With the difference being, we never really knew to help each other. We loved to kill each other when the country was at crossroads. 1822, National divide in 1915 (didn't escalate because Great Powers stopped us), 1946...

    OF course we will survive, we always do. And then it will be 20+ years as we try to bring justice to the Greeks that abused the situation for their gain. Kotzabasides in 1822, Royalists in 1915, both Communists and Rightwings in 1946
    Let's not start a conversation about the civil war(s), especially right now.

    Το ΦΕΚ για την τραπεζική αργία (The official government announcement regarding the bank holiday, it's in Greek): http://www.naftemporiki.gr/documents...eias-diarkeias
    Last edited by Aikanár; June 30, 2015 at 01:43 PM. Reason: consecutive postings; please use the "edit post" button.
    ...ὣς οἵ γ᾽ ἀμφίεπον τάφον Ἕκτορος ἱπποδάμοιο.

  12. #3892
    Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + Referendum

    I feel like I'm living in Venezuela or some other shite country. Way to go, Tsipras, SYRIZA, ANEL, and the retarded Greeks who voted them into power and want them to stay there.

  13. #3893
    Platon's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I guess many in KKE secretly want to remain in the EU and the deal to be signed but they can't go open and say it. So, they ask hardcore Euroskeptics that would vote "NO" to stay at home. Since party line is important to so many communists, they shaved a good 2%-3% from the "No" votes making a "YES" vote even stronger
    Well.. you can be absolutely sure that 0% of the KKE voters want to remain in the EU or have any deal with the Troika.

    The problem KKE have with the referendum is that the 2 options are basically 2 different versions of barbaric austerity against the greek people. (Even the governments original 47 page proposals was in essense a continuation of austerity). And the dilemma for KKE is not Euro or Drachma.. or even in or out of EU. This is a false choice if the greek oligarchs continue to dominate the country.

    But even if I totally agree with KKE:s stance, I could still go for a NO vote - just for the lulz....

  14. #3894

    Default Re: Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + Referendum

    Let's migrate to Germany!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    All of us, 10 million strong, leave the mainlands to the illegal immigrants for now, convoi through the alps, set up camp, then 10 years later fight for our independence in the middle of Germany as a minority whose rights are abused!
    Last edited by Emperor Arcturus Mengsk; June 28, 2015 at 07:28 PM.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  15. #3895

    Default Re: Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + Referendum

    You do realize that the Eurogroup said to ECB to decide if it would keep supporting us or not
    That speaks volumes of Eurogroup, and EU workings if you ask me.

  16. #3896

    Default Re: Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + Referendum

    So I guess we're now within 48 hours of Greece defaulting and the economy evaporating into nothing. I'm curious - are the majority of the Greeks in this thread happy now? After all this is what most of you have always wanted - a total disregard for the agreed austerity agreement and withdrawal from international mechanisms. Are we all happy now? Are your savings secured?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Arcturus Mengsk View Post
    Let's migrate to Germany!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    All of us, 10 million strong, leave the mainlands to the illegal immigrants for now, convoi through the alps, set up camp, then 10 years later fight for our independence in the middle of Germany as a minority whose rights are abused!
    80 million Germans quake.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    I am no more Greek than anyone of the Greeks.
    But...Inorder anyone to see how much Greek is must find how much Solon's teachings affect him.
    How much "spartan" he is...A greek that "surenders" to anyone only to live with ease and luxuries is not Greek at all!
    Greek means that you do not kneel but to your dead like Macedon generals said to Alexander.
    The list is huge but start with those and we will talk again.
    Seems being Greek is more about being in the sphere of powers who are more pragmatic.
    Last edited by removeduser_487563287433; June 28, 2015 at 08:38 PM.

  17. #3897

    Default Re: Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    Well, do you honestly think we have any sort of future in the Eurozone run by the eurogroup goons at the moment?
    Cause i do not.
    .
    See, here we have the cognitive disconnect. Those goons are the other 18 Euro countries Greece joined into a currency union with and those goons are the guys Greece wants money from because none else would still give any to her. See the small attitude problem in decrying the very people you are in a currency union with and want money from?
    "Sebaceans once had a god called Djancaz-Bru. Six worlds prayed to her. They built her temples, conquered planets. And yet one day she rose up and destroyed all six worlds. And when the last warrior was dying, he said, 'We gave you everything, why did you destroy us?' And she looked down upon him and she whispered, 'Because I can.' "
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  18. #3898

    Default Re: Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Mangalore View Post
    See, here we have the cognitive disconnect. Those goons are the other 18 Euro countries Greece joined into a currency union with and those goons are the guys Greece wants money from because none else would still give any to her. See the small attitude problem in decrying the very people you are in a currency union with and want money from?
    Exactly this. Greeks are so unwilling to accept any basic responsibility for their role in the crisis they've exaggerated their imagined enemies to absurd proportions, and now they just sit there insulting their creditors whilst whining about how much they deserve money and how victimised they are.

    Oh well, they'll get what they want by Wednesday, God help them.

  19. #3899
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + Referendum

    I don't think we will default actually. Probably the government will shave off 5% from bank accounts to pay the IMF, pensions etc in the coming days.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
    _______________________________________________________
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    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  20. #3900

    Default Re: Discussion on Greek political, financial issues + Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I don't think we will default actually. Probably the government will shave off 5% from bank accounts to pay the IMF, pensions etc in the coming days.
    What deposits?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32931184

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