Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: fighting elves as goblins

  1. #1

    Default fighting elves as goblins

    I am starting to wonder if this is even possible. As globlins you have no cav, only infantry and it seems like the AI's ability to skermish mixed with infa stamina on archers, is it even possible to fight elves?

  2. #2

    Default Re: fighting elves as goblins

    Numbers are your greatest allies. Even if you have advantage of 2:1 it might not be enough. So dont fight them unless you have much greater numbers (which shouldnt be really hard). Try to use Wargs if you have.
    I choose to die on my feet, rather than live on my knees!

  3. #3
    riuk881's Avatar Semisalis
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Michigan, US
    Posts
    492

    Default Re: fighting elves as goblins

    trolls will be a great asset when you can get them
    It's not a question of where it grips it. It's a simple questions of weight ratios; a five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut.

  4. #4

    Default Re: fighting elves as goblins

    Make sure you have numbers on your side, Trolls are good to help smash the infantry, Wargs, and Catapults, will be very useful to take down their archers.

  5. #5

    Default Re: fighting elves as goblins

    I know this may sound silly, but I personally use the Snaga Skirmishers, yes you read it right SNAGA SKIRMISHERS, to hammer down the elvish infantry...
    Cheap, Fast, and easily fielded, they are probably your best asset..
    Their missiles are good, and as a hoard, even of almost 2 units of Elvish archers are continously firing on you, these soldiers are able to fire a volley of javelins, before routing...
    This means that if you have about 5-6 of these units in your army, you will lose at the most 1 or 2, in a battle against half, or 3/4 stack of elves, while your other units are unmolested by those nasty elven arrows...
    Keep them in the front, shower volleys upon elven infantry or if you can, their archers, take them out, and retreat back, and allow the heavier infantry to win the day for you...

  6. #6

    Default Re: fighting elves as goblins

    yeah I too find Snaga extremely useful unit
    I choose to die on my feet, rather than live on my knees!

  7. #7
    Macilrille's Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Aarhus, Denmark
    Posts
    2,491

    Default Re: fighting elves as goblins

    As a person who often plays as FPoE, I can confirm that Snaga Skirmishers are a pain in the proverbial. Even used by the AI. If used by a player they would be really annoying.

  8. #8

    Default Re: fighting elves as goblins

    I find it useful to filed a full stack of skirmishers and attack with it.
    It coast you next to non and you can train them very very fast from every where and they actually hurt and are very fast "not faster than elves thought".

    Today i used a Rhun skirmisher stack and attacked a dwarf force of over 1800.
    The end was that i killed over 700 of them and next turn my main army crushed the rest.
    And those are dwarfs mind you.

    but frankly i play MOS and OOMM and OOG are very very very weak factions in terms of units.
    Even trolls can be countered and it doesn't take much to break you army.
    We need some good units in the mix there.

  9. #9

    Default Re: fighting elves as goblins

    Unless you force every battle to be a siege, you absolutely will have to use cavalry. Watching goblins chase around archers is absolute torture and will slow every battle down to the point of being unplayable. Mercenaries are key here... in the 3 provinces around Rivendell you can recruit Rhaduar Cavalry mercenaries, in addition to other human units which outperform early orc infantry. Accumulate these cavalry in addition to wargs and you will actually prefer to fight elves in the field rather than sieges. Whenever you get a mission with the reward "Best Units Available" make sure to fulfill it because it will probably be 3 units of trolls if you are after turn 44 and have a troll pen in any of your villas. If you are OotMM you have a really nasty start with garrison-script elf large cities in any direction you expand. Best to get Imladris out of the way early, so you will only deal with Silvans. Siege it early with a horde and make them sally out. Gundabad has an easier starting position and you won't be forced to deal with too many elves until the time of your choosing when you have plenty of wargs.

  10. #10

    Default Re: fighting elves as goblins

    I dont know about Misty Mountains Orcs, but as Gundabad it was quite easy. Just use numbers and advance, shoot with your own archers and surround enemy with your close combat snagas.
    "When your opponent fears you, then's the moment when you give the fear its own rein, give it the time to work on him. Let it become terror. The terrified man fights himself. Eventually, he attacks in desperation. That is the most dangerous moment, but the terrified man can be trusted usually to make a fatal mistake."

    "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

  11. #11
    gaunty14's Avatar Vicarius
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    UK, somewhere in the middle of England
    Posts
    2,629

    Default Re: fighting elves as goblins

    As an avid elven faction player, the most annoying unit by far are snaga skimishers, trolls, wargs, Uruk hai and even nazgul are fine compared to those buggers javelins. Spam them and keep them out of combat/flank units engaged in combat and you'll be fine.

    "will help build battle station for food" - or rep

  12. #12

    Default Re: fighting elves as goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by gaunty14 View Post
    As an avid elven faction player, the most annoying unit by far are snaga skimishers, trolls, wargs, Uruk hai and even nazgul are fine compared to those buggers javelins. Spam them and keep them out of combat/flank units engaged in combat and you'll be fine.
    I can only agree to that.
    As gaunty said let's say you see a massive stack of elves and you know that if you attack it with your main army they will butcher you.
    What you do is make a nice stack of 15 skirmisher units or so and send them at this stack...no general needed as this will be to bleed the enemy.
    if said stack have near 1500 men with this stack that did coast you nothing and took only tops 2 turns to make you will at least kill 500 elves "and maybe a general" with no coast what so ever beside very low price and low upkeep.
    And every settlement you own will be able to build them.

    Then you march in your main army.
    Ohh and if there is any Cavalry just tie them with any stack and kill them.
    Skirmshers are the poor man's choice against many of the good factions that have much much powerful units.

  13. #13
    Macilrille's Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Aarhus, Denmark
    Posts
    2,491

    Default Re: fighting elves as goblins

    Which is as it should be, Orc factions should use "Zerg Rush" tactics.

  14. #14

    Default Re: fighting elves as goblins

    The Elves' biggest advantage is their archers, and while their stamina isn't infinite, it's way, way, way higher than any other archer class in the game. You're gonna get slaughtered chasing them with infantry. Your best bet is to do what some others have said; swarm the archers with Snaga to draw their fire, then try to flank them or box them in so the skirmish-loving AI can't flee. The Elven Archers (except elites) aren't too good in melee when outnumbered and shouldn't last very long. Don't use your Trolls on them. Trolls will get slaughtered at range and are better spent smashing Elven infantry.

  15. #15

    Default Re: fighting elves as goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDragun View Post
    Unless you force every battle to be a siege, you absolutely will have to use cavalry. Watching goblins chase around archers is absolute torture and will slow every battle down to the point of being unplayable. Mercenaries are key here... in the 3 provinces around Rivendell you can recruit Rhaduar Cavalry mercenaries, in addition to other human units which outperform early orc infantry. Accumulate these cavalry in addition to wargs and you will actually prefer to fight elves in the field rather than sieges. Whenever you get a mission with the reward "Best Units Available" make sure to fulfill it because it will probably be 3 units of trolls if you are after turn 44 and have a troll pen in any of your villas. If you are OotMM you have a really nasty start with garrison-script elf large cities in any direction you expand. Best to get Imladris out of the way early, so you will only deal with Silvans. Siege it early with a horde and make them sally out. Gundabad has an easier starting position and you won't be forced to deal with too many elves until the time of your choosing when you have plenty of wargs.
    This.

    I love playing as the goblin factions and I personally believe OotMM is the hardest faction in Vanilla, MOS, DaC, and probably any other submod. Their real strength lies in their wealth. Taking Imladris should be your first priority before even thinking of expanding near the anduin. Just seige the whole 8-11 turns (depends on the version of TATW and number of units in the settlement) and take it. During this time, build warg cages or hire some of the mercs that DrDragun mentioned. Then you can focus on the east.

    An almost guaranteed tactic is to absorb the elf arrows with your snaga skirmishers and take out their archers with your wargs. Wargs are better than trolls. Never use your trolls as cavalry, only as support units for your front lines or to fight the general units.

    Basically, the trick to battling elves is a Warg/skirmisher combo. Build those cages, and two units of wargs can win you a battle

  16. #16

    Default Re: fighting elves as goblins

    lure them into a bridge or mountain battle (hopefully with your soldiers on top of said hill/mountain)... the orc archers and tossers will have a field day

  17. #17
    Boogie Knight's Avatar Biarchus
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    The Kingdom of Mercia
    Posts
    631

    Default Re: fighting elves as goblins

    Is there any way for OoG to get snaga skirmishers? So far the only snaga I have are archers and... some melee ones I forget the name of. This is my first time playing a H/H campaign on TATW (only others were both M/Ms - flopped as Dale, won as Silvans) and I'm finding it a little tricky. I've been recruiting Rhudaur mercs west of Imladris (great little touch to see them in the game BTW), some of whom are skirmishers, but that's hardly a steady supply.

    I haven't fought elves so far as OoG - just rebels, Eriador, and Dwarves. Eriador's been giving me trouble by taking a few of my more far-flung and smaller-garrisoned villages, like Fornost and one to the south I forget the name of, and for a while everything was going downhill. Some of my best (including my starting trolls) were stationed to the east near Dain's Halls as I'd heard you should help the OotMM hold that fortress to save yourself a headache, but after a few turns of nothing happening I moved that force to take Wrakyaburg as I saw it was still held by rebels. Then after returning to Dain's Halls (and losing much of that force to two dwarven armies on the way, one of which included Iron Guards which was NOT fun) I found the dwarves had moved in while I was away. Now I'm probably going to lose Wrakyaburg to the Silvans sniffing around the area, but fingers crossed I might just be able to retake Dain's Halls as only three dwarven units are defending it, one of which is a unit of miners I mauled on my way there. I'm just hoping they don't have a garrison script in that settlement, as if they do I'm screwed.

    Over to the west the situation has improved somewhat, as I was able to put together a slap-dash army out of snaga, wargs, two generals and some Rhudaur mercs, basically by emptying a few garrisons and sending them after a large Eriadorian army commanded by Gandalf and containing no fewer than three other generals. I managed to draw it out near Ruskea Vene (which they'd besieged and would've taken the next turn if they hadn't turned to face the pursuing army) and defeated it in the forest there, killing Gandalf and two of the other generals. Next turn I chased down the survivors, finishing off the other general and losing one of my own in the process. I've met a few other clumps of units around and destroyed them, but I'm crossing my fingers that I might have broken their backs for now.

    Sorry to turn this into blogcentre.net, the above is just a bit of background so I can ask for advice. I've heard that when fighting elves as OotMM it's a good idea to basically patrol around with a mid-sized stack and obliterate any small groups of elven units you find to avoid them stacking. Would this work against Eriador? I've got this army I used to kill Gandalf's and, though battered, it's still reasonably sized. Should I use it for this purpose? Barracks event has just happened so I'm building a troll pen in Gundabad (considering another in Carn Dum), I'm hoping it's just a matter now of waiting to be able to churn out trolls but something tells me it won't be that easy...
    Last edited by Boogie Knight; January 09, 2015 at 06:45 AM. Reason: Spelling

  18. #18

    Default Re: fighting elves as goblins

    Boogie -

    About garrison script - you can find out which city has it simply by looking into that settlement (usually by spy). There is a building with a book icon. If you click on it, you can read stuff about the region and also discover what kind of vegetation it is, what special units can be build there and if there are garrison forces.

    About Eriador - eriador army is quite weak, you can maul it by goblins very easy (just overrun them with numbers - snagas, fellers, halbediers, everything you have). I did not used trolls, they are expensive and I prefer orc rubble to deal with the enemy, its easily retrainable and cheap.
    "When your opponent fears you, then's the moment when you give the fear its own rein, give it the time to work on him. Let it become terror. The terrified man fights himself. Eventually, he attacks in desperation. That is the most dangerous moment, but the terrified man can be trusted usually to make a fatal mistake."

    "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

  19. #19

    Default Re: fighting elves as goblins

    Hi Boogie,

    With Gundabad, it's tricky to plan a defensible expansion west because everything outside your home territory is a small village (Athilin, Pikaranta or whatever, Coldfells, Hoarwell). Expanding to these villages puts you in an unstable state because you are trying to defend settlements with no wall, small garrisons, that are far apart.

    It's best to plan your first expansion to go all the way to Amon Sul and Fornost Erian. With these 2 castles, you can keep Eriador boxed in and also since they have a wall, you can maintain larger garrisons there with free upkeep. Then your indefensible villages will be contained and do not need to maintain a garrison. Very soon after this you should also grab Neunal so that your border with the Dwarves also has a defensible settlement. This will require you to declare war on the Dwarves though, so only do it when you're ready. Leave Gundabad as your Eastern defense... it is a natural defense point since you only have to maintain 1 border garrison to cover all threats from that direction.

    You have many forts on the map which you can use to save yourself some money. One near Carn Dum and one near Coldfells for starters. For the defense of Athilin I usually keep 2 wargs in the fort at Carn Dum. This way, the wargs are free upkeep, but still within range to defend Athilin.

    Speaking of which, obviously Carn Dum is your main production center for infantry, allowing the highest level barracks early in the game, but I tend to rush a Warg Cage here very early to start putting some cavalry on the map for me.

    Hope it helps!
    Last edited by DrDragun; January 09, 2015 at 10:29 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •